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Naruto is a MASTERPIECE so why all of the HATE?

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Post #6958
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10:03 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 50


What I love is how Naruto is one of the most read manga in the world--(just look at Baka's list if you doubt it) yet has inspired such 12 yr old level hatred. I know that people love to tear down things when they become too popular but for a work that is approaching Dragonball levels of length (not my opinion..this thing surpassed DB in volume 1) and has still managed to capture so much interest and display such creativity and growth of characters.. why do those people hate on it? I mean seriously give some reasons. The reason heard on hear (and remember I said 12 yr old level arguments) is:

1. "Too many characters"--- Personally I find this to be one of the most incredible aspects of Naruto the manga and anime. I think this argument is very subjective and kind of weak considering that many manga have lots and lots of characters. I mean how do you honestly judge that? Is there a right amount? Take shounen and put Bleach, One Piece and Dragonball into that equation for starters. All have over 15 characters regularly appearing. Mix it up with good seinen and get Gantz going (although it is certainly a potentially small group at anytime in that manga) as another example. For American comics...popular franchises like Legion of Superheroes and X-men have long kept this going. So, my point is that this is a storytelling technique for long running works and it seems like if you're reading naruto then u're a fan of manga/ anime/ american comics or tv in general and in any case you're not only familar with this technique but probably a fan of it. I think for naruto though where this argument fails most is that Naruto is clearly the star. While there ARE many characters (I'd be foolish to doubt that)..the book isn't called Gantz or Grey's Anatomy but Naruto. He's the star. His plot is woven even in the side stories that enrich the world but seemingly have nothing to do with Naruto like Sasuke's Revenge and/or the rivalry between Neji and Hinata. Furthermore, what I think is absolutely critical to state as I think it's the heart of Naruto and so well executed is that even though there are many characters,..they are actually interesting (I just cannot agree they are stock characters---again to make that argument is to attack every fictional work ever) and best yet they grow. And not through some lame contrivance but they grow much like real people...the slacker Shikamaru becomes one of the village's most trusted and best ninja far quicker than any of the other so-called superstars like Neji and/or Sasuke. Honestly, Shikamaru could be deemed as a stock character and look what happened? I just don't believe when he 1st appeared you thought that would happen..not a one of you and that alone constitutes storytelling. This is not an easy thing to do--creating fictional characters in a popular work is impossible enough but to show character traits for SUPPORTNG characters (many of whom didn't or don't even appear often) and that those traits actually mature over time is just damn near mythical. While it's subjective to say that some of you don't like the other characters--from Tsunade to Shino to aforementioned...I think it's at best deception and worst ignorance to claim that in Naruto Kishimoto-sensei has not actually created real characters that make Naruto an actual breathing living world and give us characters who mature over time just as we all do.

2. "Too little action"- I don't have much to say here. It's a legitimate point. Personally, I think the action is just right. Bleach is a manga where the action is absolutely constant and there is no character development. Rukia hasn't changed since her 1st appearance. That's sad since it's been some 200 chapters for a work that some of you would claim as actually being deeper than Naruto and certainly does not claim to be as easygoing and cartoony as One Piece. So, I agree. I think the argument is accurate but I don't see it as a negative. Naruto IS NOT AN ACTION MANGA and nor is there a rule that says it should be. I also agree that this is one moment where the anime clearly beats the manga. Kishimoto's artwork is nice but his action scenes and shots are sometimes anticlimactic (see the latest chapter with naruto up against akatsuki). The anime has always done a good job of amping the action and I LOVE IT. That said, one thing that bothers me with that argument is that some of you claim is that by having little action...nothing ever happens in naruto. I couldn't disagree more. Since it's start--3 MAJOR CHARACTERS HAVE DIED. And died unexpectantly (I won't spoil who). I think it's a compliment of the action being less than the drama and storytelling in this manga that makes those moments so incredible. If we look at Bleach and One Piece..I ask any of you who are critics of naruto and fans of those other manga to actually tell me major characters who died. Please just one confused ?? I'll help you...not one. And yet Naruto is boring and has too little action?? Do you see what I mean about lameness of criticisms? They either just seem irrational or arbitrary but they certainly are not accurate or the least bit thought out.

3. "Too much training"-- My GF actually thinks this is one of the silliest arguments some have made after not enough action. For an adult, I just don't believe that any of us who live by ourselves, pay bills, pay taxes and worry about simple things like our kids or retirement would think that anything is too much training. I just don't believe anyone (young or old) having those thoughts about bills and their own future actually would look at a friggin fantasy book and object to the main character having to WORK for his success. R U GUYS SERIOUS?? It's crazy I know but this is why I think most of the naruto detractors personally are very young. I wish someone would spend the time to explain to me how Kishimoto is to blame for actually creating a logical aspect of his manga. There is no kame-ha-ha (DBZ) and no bankai (Bleach)--it's chakra or what we scientists like to call endurance. It's crazy how realistic a fantasy book Naruto is since the characters have to learn to create new techniques from a set stable of disciplines-- taijutsu (physical), genjutsu (illusion/magic like) and kekkai genkai (bloodline). Again, what makes Naruto great is that it's not easy. He works at it. He sucks at his training (how many of us suck at Math or English) and sometimes he wins by crafting a new strategy--others he learns at the proper time (like the great sasuke save arc where naruto desperately tries to conjure the giant toad to fight against gaara). Again much like critique #2---I agree with this point but not as a's what makes Naruto great. For the critics...if you like the repetitive and for me personally very uncreative and just damn lazy approach-- which is superhero attacks; villain responds; villain beats up hero badly and ..hero then MIRACULOUSLY discovers another power that you never heard of or that never before he could do on his own to defeat the villain (and then he still keeps fighing ) then seriously u need to read Bleach, One Piece (except for the Gear 2 which shrinks him) and DBZ--these are for you. Naruto is made for sterner critics who recognize bullshit storytelling.

4. "Naruto is still too weak"- Don't know what to say to this--latest chapter (300 something) after lots of 'training' (about a volume and a half worth I might add) Naruto defeats an Akatsuki and is praised by Kekaishi-senpai as being stronger than him. Sounds to me like the 'scientists' amongst you critics who discuss how Naruto is weak have far too much time on their hands. I mean all jokes aside, I'm not sure what you expect naruto to do yet. He's 15 and not the hokage. Not to mention that he's been repeatedly told that if he loses control now at this age his body WILL deteriorate and he may lose all humanity to the fox spirit. I mean one of the posts on here goes on a long tangent about Naruto knowing Taijutsu and stuff and I honestly say to you that if any of what you're saying is accurate (which some of it just seems a little too specific for what Kishimoto has actually put in the book) then you win that argument I guess. Let me admit one thing though to those of you who look at my responses and get offended that I'm dropping knowledge...I AGREE--I mean sometimes..there IS too little action, IS too much training and naruto IS not as strong in a fight as much as I'd like. BUT what I DO UNDERSTAND is that Kishimoto is a master at telling a story and just like in doesn't go the way you's unpredictable and fresh and on that front...while I understand that a masterpiece doesn't give you what you want...YOU STILL READ--something many of you critics are doing despite having thin arguments against this work. So some of you either really do like it and just hate on it too look different or you are not sure what you don't like but something compels you to keep reading.

5. "Sasuke is involved too much in the storyline"-- What can I say--for me, it's a pretty damn good storyline. Betrayal (who saw that coming?--those of you who read it..hell that means all of you..know what I'm talking about), revenge and redemption are actually compelling storylines that have existed since the Bible. What do you expect? Hating Sasuke in the story is like hating Sakura...they're there because they are. What I'll say to you is that if you don't like Sasuke then you definitely have a legitimate point against this manga (cuz that is purely an opinion that cannot be argued) and the short answer I can give you is YOU'RE SCREWED my friend. Seriously STOP READING NARUTO IMMEDIATELY cuz much like Jimmy Olsen to Superman and/or Usopp to Luffy these characters (sasuke) are there whether you like them or not. All jokes aside though, the question I think that the critics fail to simple "WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN WITH SASUKE?" Part of the brilliance of this manga is that Kishimoto teases you with many possible outcomes and then shocks you when he reveals the truth (see Rock lee's story and Sai's involvement with team 7). I personally find what Kishimoto has done with Sasuke is awesome. Here's a shocker for some of you I ACTUALLY DON'T LIKE SASUKE MYSELF but I understand his hatred for his brother and wanting power and I think his story will end tragic to which I cherish every moment he is in the manga.

6. "No character growth." Everything I've said has proven that this is just not even silly it's just PLAIN WRONG. The people stating this obviously speak from the experience of Bleach where after 200 chapters Ichigo has grown to admit his love for Inoue or Chad (I think he's gay myself) and Luffy has actually matured to become a real leader and not a cartoon ignoranous. JUST KIDDING! But, seriuously--those manga, which I actually like -- I just understand that they are nowhere on the level of strong storytelling like Naruto-- , have not actually matured in character growth at all. This argument is just plain wrong. That or you've never read the manga to say Naruto characters have not grown. There are so many cases that this could be a separate thread in all honesty. I am glad then one young lady responded nicely to my post but I can say respectfully that I do not find any evidence of stock characters, non-growth or stagnant storylines.

That said, if you are a fan of naruto (new one I mean) I hope you read my words as the enthusiasm they are. If you're a critic I hope you get over any ego hurting you may have recieved from my post and actually re-analysis your previous statements and either admit you've no idea what you're saying on naruto, say something negative with actual backup to the opinion (something more than naruto is booty) and lastly, post something like I did about your favorite manga!!!! I love manga of all types (my list is those of you who think I'm a fanboy continue to express ignorance)...and love a good mature discussion about new manga.

On this site, I learned about Berserk, Kekkaishi and Rurouni Kenshin amongst others and am eternally greatful. I didn't bash those people..they posted enthusiastically and accurately like I hope I did and engaged my intellectual curiousity and hopefully for some of you this discussion has done the same. Let's keep it going!!! Thanks!


I think for even the most honest critic of Naruto they will admit that these comments border on the insane. Likewise, these same people from yfantgirl to others seem to actually prefer Bleach confused Bleach confused I feel like that guy in the Budweiser Superbowl ads who starts wigging out when they suggest his team is going to the Playoffs. Bleach confused ??

Sorry I needed a moment. Anyways, it would be easy for me to ridicule you but I'm not..I truly just want to know what REAL critics think as I am a huge fan but not a fanboy. Likewise, I'm a student of manga and find joy in most works and that's why when I can look at Naruto next to my favorites Berserk, Kekkaishi, Death Note and Monster and say that this sits up there with each in its' own's hard for me to stomach these lame responses. So, please this..comment on the 6 major issues with a true indepth reason why u dislike or like me (which I will post later) think that those 6 criticisms are BS of the highest degree.
biggrin biggrin biggrin

Last edited by Daedalus at 3:48 am, Feb 28

Post #6959
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10:19 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 26

Manga = good
Anime = bad

There will me many more replies so elaborations are not needed.

Post #6960
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10:28 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 481

Yup, the manga is fine and entertaining. It's the anime (and most people, sadly enough, prefer this version of Naruto) that sucks. Easy as that.

If those pretentions were meant towards the manga, they're quite inconsistent.

Don't waste your time or time will waste you.
Post #6961
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10:34 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 406

anime : the fillers.... the horrid fillers T_T (not all of them are that bad, but still)

other than that i'd say its good

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Post #6962
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10:36 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 2896

Warn: Banned

Naruto is overrated. Certainly NAruto is excellent,, but otaku exaggerated how great Naruto is.

Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?

Star Trek XI
Post #6963
user avatar

10:37 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 1574

i agree with the manga=good, anime=bad analogy
with the exception of the fight scenes
the animes pretty good at expanding most of them from 3 page of actual "action" to a minute or two of pretty killer animation

granted there are some of the fights that just look stupid animated,
Spoiler (highlight to view)
like the neji and hinata in the tournament
, the manga did that one a way better

Post #6964

10:44 pm, Feb 25 2007

I agree with all that has been said up to now, the manga is fine, not a master piece of Berserk, Death Note or Monster level as you put it, but still something quite worth the time. The anime on the other hand is just horrible... (wasn't always that way though)

Post #6965
user avatar

11:22 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 641

the anime fight scenes for naruto tend to suck in terms of impact. The hits are really slow so when they do connect, you don't feel the impact like they should. There's no snapping to the movements in the anime, so it's really annoying to see people go flying when they just get a tap on their face.

Manga, heh, of all the points you mentioned, 4 and 6 are quite valid.
Think for a second here, Naruto, after 2 years of training with a legendary ninja, comes back with the same attacks he used before he left. So what the hell was the point in leaving? If you send a character off to train for 2 years he better come back with something new, or at least be more aware of his surroundings. Naruto did NOT improve at all in any department after the 2 year gap, which is utterly annoying when you realize what a waste of 2 years that was. Everyone else improved with new jutsus while the main character stayed in the same spot.

6 applies mainly to Naruto, after he came back from the 2 year gap, he didn't change squat. It's not until the kakashi training that he improved slightly, which brings up a point previously raised; what was the point of naruto training for 2 years if he can only improve in a few days with kakashi?

Naruto still uses the same simple taijutsu styles as before, neither his speed or technique has improved over that 2 year gap, the biggest waste of training time in a manga I have ever seen. 666 satan actually had all the characters improve during the time gap, same with Ryurooden where everyone improved during the gaps. The whole point in having training gaps is to improve the characters without showing every day of their training, but in Naruto's case, that did squat.

On another note, having immortal characters duking it out with the good guys never end well, most mangas usually leave until the last bit to finish off the series since it really doesn't end well. When that was done in Naruto I was just pissed off from reading it since nothing good was going to come of it, and sure enough nothing good did come from it. The death of characters not developped enough through the manga, sudden realization of character relationships not even developped before, these were too much of a shock and seemed more like it was thrown in without consideration. One Piece had some shocker moments but they were all hinted at from really early in the series or mentioned somewhere before it happened, so they all felt right to be there even if it was a surprise. Naruto's plot is just being thrown together really hastily without planning, at least the last pair of enemies anyways.

If you think those points are BS, then you're just blindly reading mangas when you can't even spot a disappointing flaw like that from Naruto. The recent chapters have finally started to be better again but I doubt it'll last long.

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Post #6966

11:24 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 70

Because that's your opinion and not everyone else's.

I wouldn't say the manga is bad, nor would I consider it particularly good. It's entertaining, but I don't feel any attachment at all to ANY of the characters, or even to the plot.

As for the anime... well, I started falling asleep while watching episodes at around 50 or 60 or so (without being particularly tired, that is - falling asleep at 5 am while trying to watch all of Juuni Kokki in one night is a different story). I figured that was a bad sign and stopped watching it.

Post #6967

11:44 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 91

why do you even care? this shit is all opinion based. Last i checked, everyone's opinion may not be the same. If you like it, who cares?

With that said, Naruto is alright these days, but whatever, Im not gonna hate on it right now.

Post #6968
user avatar

11:54 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 18

I read the manga, but I don't think the manga is a masterpeice. Its a popular manga, but I don't think its a true masterpiece that would make people go eek. Now that I think about it, it seems masterpieces mainly just go by how popular they are, laugh

The anime on the other hand has gone downhill. I don't like the animation of the new Naruto Shippuuden series. The quality of the animation doesn't seem that great as it should be, maybe some shots look good or decent, but some look plain horrible for what should have been good quality throughout. An example would be Shikamaru, he looks plain horrible, mad

Gotta love the Asians!
Post #6969
user avatar

11:56 pm, Feb 25 2007
Posts: 563

Except for the "impact" stuff, I agree with everything greydrak said. Naruto's lack of improvement along the lines of becoming a respectable ninja has made me grow tired of him. Example: how could a ninja know as little as he does, be sent on top level missions? Liability!!!

Also, Sasuke becomes unbearable as a character and is at fault for doing a lot of damage to this story.
Spoiler (highlight to view)
He was a great character right up until his emo-ness overwhelmed him and made the entire manga be about saving him.
Let him go leaf-people! Go on with your lives!

As for the anime, fillers aside, I thought it was perfectly good. Lee's drunkin' fight vs. the bone guy was exceedingly cool. Although, what do I know, I'm reading the manga and not watching the anime.

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Matt Soulblade
Post #6970
user avatar

12:06 am, Feb 26 2007
Posts: 65

Why all the Hate? One word.


I dont kinda care but a lot of people do. I find Naruto to be a fun read, I have read to v4 and Im pretty interested in the series.

Post #6976
user avatar

12:40 am, Feb 26 2007
Posts: 17

No problem at all either with Naruto or Bleach both are great if you want to know why all the hate is because of the anime versions, while Naruto had 100 fillers that you know are capable of killing braincells faster than unpurified drugs Bleach on the other hand was fairly famous when Naruto fillers began so many people that lost hope on the show turned their eyes to the new anime on the rise...

But what is interesting -at least to me- is the reason why Bleach has survived this long, at one point when I heard Bleach would have fillers I thought aaahhhh so I have to wait a year to see this great series while they go into what I called at the moment Naruto-Filler-Mode, but to my surprise -and happiness- it looks like the staff team behind Bleach is better with their story and thus while you could realize it was a filler making time for the manga to run you could say aahhh this story is good ooohhh what will happen...

True that is not as good as the real thing but if Bleach in normal mode is a 10 the fillers are a 7 or 8 -at least to me- and with Naruto is like if normal mode is a 10 the fillers are at most a 5 -apart from one mission and the final filler episodes- so as you see everyone that doesn't read the manga version lost interest in Naruto while a 7 was good enough to retain followers for Bleach until the real thing came again...

^_^ I remind you this is my personal "opinion" and that I don't care if you agree so if you are a lover or hater it has nothing to do with me... To the ones that read all my rant I say thks since I always sidetrack but if I can advice you watch/read Naruto once again as is getting good \>_</ banzai

Post #6980

2:50 am, Feb 26 2007
Posts: 74

when something gets as popular as naruto, the fan-ism is taken too far. Its a good series but do you really need to criticise other series to make your pt. even you go as far to state your opinions about db and bleach. y argue with 12 year olds, the majority are a bunch of narutards who only watch cuz ninjas are kool.

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