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is anime/manga fansubbing/hosting as bad as software piracy?

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is anime/manga fansubbing/hosting considered as bad as software piracy?
Yes
No
Not in some countries
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Bieber Fever
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7:45 pm, Dec 18 2008
Posts: 411


Is it as bad as it is? Cause I seen news that people have been fined for downloading games and such. But anime, not much on that.



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Local Prig
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7:57 pm, Dec 18 2008
Posts: 1899


I don't particularly see what the difference is. Piracy is piracy, licensed or not.

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8:00 pm, Dec 18 2008
Posts: 370


you really cant punish people who have downloaded movies, music, softwares, or any data/media that isnt licensed here or branched to any companies in this country.... anime has only recently become a cultural acceptance in this country....

couldnt find the article for this, but japan DID ask america to stop trafficking animes, mangas, and other japanese medias and softwares on the net illegally..... but fortunately you cant get in trouble for nonlicensed stuff... but even if it was licensed and sold in america, not much of a percentage would buy those products, so either ways they wont make money off america.... cause only some people are into these stuff usually the mainstream ones such as naruto, bleach, one piece, etc....

in terms of wrong and right... i think DLing software, anime, manga, movies, or whatever,,,, i think they are all the same... i mean you are still considered stealing, or viewing a work of art without paying or appreciating in a standard manner.... only difference is, "who" youre stealing from such as big companies or small companies,,,, either than that, there is none



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8:05 pm, Dec 18 2008
Posts: 468


If something is 'bad' depends entirely on your perspective.

In the eyes of the law, yes. However, the US government only enforces laws that make it money, and the music/movie alliance happens to have a lot more money to lobby the government with. In fact, many anti-piracy groups are getting away with illegal information gathering, and various other infringements on privacy.

Because all of the video game groups don't have a consolidated front to fight piracy, they really don't press down as hard as music/movies. The most people really seem to get for downloading these are complaints/notices sent to ISPs. This is because they really don't have the money to initiates lawsuits (or its simply not worth it) and so they rely on scare tactics (which are the most effective anyway.)

The same can be said for manga/anime. In Japan, the manga/anime industry is huge. It has enough money in it that it can prosecute violators on Japanese soil, and does so quite frequently. However, legally, Japan can't do anything to people on U.S. soil without the US government getting involved. Just like the US can't do anything to every other country out there where pirated material is sold on the streets freely (ie. Russia.)

As far as a person's perspective... Most people have their reasons for not believing it bad. It's difficult for a person to do something they see as ethically wrong, and yet continue to do it without adapting their frame of mind to perceive it otherwise.

Keep in mind that most things that are fansubbed/scanlated are not actually licensed, or else they're not translated as of the time the groups do it. And most series that actually get licensed in the US may never finish being published, or contain the original material (this has been changing a lot, but american companies and people in general still tend to see any kind of animated work as intended for a very young audience.)

[edit]
Oh and with anime... We have a few problems:

1. It's completely free for people to watch it in Japan.
2. Most series aren't licensed.
3. Voice actors for English Anime have seemingly no enthusiasm for their job. Or simply no talent.
4. There's no way for people to actually watch all the anime shows that are licensed, because they're either at kiddie times, or at crazy late adult times. So either way, you're asleep for half, or at work.

What the companies should do, is work out a deal with English companies to provide commercials online. People could then choose to watch various commercials in response to a show if they liked the show. That way, they don't have a third party license company cutting them off, we'd be supporting our favorite shows without having to pay when normal television broadcasting does not cost money, and we'd get to watch shows that stayed true to the original content.

Last edited by Spawnblade at 8:13 pm, Dec 18 2008

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Form is Emptiness.
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11:27 pm, Dec 18 2008
Posts: 930


i think its very different: a software is international, usable worldwide and buyable on the net, at worst (your city doesnt have stores that sell it).

Anime/manga translating is not so bad in all the world except in the origin country (where you could buy it normally). In the other countries, or in the most countries (lets speak of the market outside the north american one), you could never get the titles subbed/scanlated nowadays, or for a ridicule price (cause of bad management during the publishing process in foreign countries=cost level up). Besides, for the anime, fansubbing publicizes/previews them to a wider part of the future DVD buyers than if they werent subbed, of this im really convinced.

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[ Lv-5 Ranter ]™
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11:40 pm, Dec 18 2008
Posts: 85


For me, they're just the same as pirate movie, but I continue to read/download them...

It is what it is, kinda waste of time trying to find "sound good" reasons to justify it.

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Bieber Fever
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9:19 am, Dec 19 2008
Posts: 411


I have heard that a anime DVD could go as high as 50 dollars and it is only for a few episodes, if this is true, then damn. How can anyone afford this. So in a sense they really never lost any sales, cause who in their right mind would spend 50 dollars on something they know nothing about.

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SnoopyCool.com
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4:43 pm, Dec 19 2008
Posts: 204


They're expensive in Japan, yes. Generally for two episodes (sometimes three).


Short answer to the original question: Yes, piracy is bad.

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Bwaaah!
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6:51 pm, Dec 19 2008
Posts: 838


In general piracy/theft is bad. There are degrees of guilt though.

D/ling media so that you can illicitly sell it is clearly bad. The kind of bad people lost limbs and lives for in the middle ages.

D/ling a TV show you normally record on TV or a series that would never see the light of day in your home country is negligible. Still morally bad but it's about as offensive as jaywalking.

That said, it doesn't help when the legitimate means of acquiring said hosted fan translations is at best prohibitively expensive and, at worst, slow, censored, unreliable and, in some places *cough* Iowa *cough* possibly subject to litigation.

Post #239374 - Reply to (#239371) by drunkguy
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7:09 pm, Dec 19 2008
Posts: 332


.

Last edited by Sijy at 11:32 am, Dec 25 2015

Post #239375 - Reply to (#239045) by Crenshinibon
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Uncultured
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7:16 pm, Dec 19 2008
Posts: 2128


Quote from Crenshinibon
I don't particularly see what the difference is. Piracy is piracy, licensed or not.

This.
It's still piracy, pure and simple.
Whether you think it's right or not is your choice.

The Somali pirates who currently rob supertankers have quite a large fanbase, btw.

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Post #239400 - Reply to (#239374) by Sijy
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Bwaaah!
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10:16 pm, Dec 19 2008
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Quote from Sijy
Quote from drunkguy
D/ling a TV show you normally record on TV or a series that would never see the light of day in your home country is negligible. Still morally bad but it's about as offensive as jaywalking.


Disagree. There is no moral wrong if you download and watch a tv show you could record on tv. Esp.if it is not available in your "region" (totally moronic...I can't buy a Casshern blu-ray cause the studio that licensed it went hddvd back in the day, and I can't import the japanese blu-ray without buying another ps3 from japan).


I was thinking more in terms of DL/ing copies without commercials or advertisements. When recording shows, you may fast forward them but (barring a special service, purchasing a compilation or an illicit copy) you still get the ads. The least a person can do while watching a show is to give it's sponsors' ads the same level of attention they give it while it aired on TV or in streaming videos. As I said though, it is negligible.

As for format problems, region encoding is a ripoff but other format issues are more of a gray area for me. If the company bet on the wrong format, they should get a grace period to correct this. Of course if they aren't even hinting at a re-release anytime soon, then any piracy that occurs is on them.

Similarly, if they are trying to screw the customer on features or intend to censor the damned release, then any piracy that happens is not only justified but also eminently desirable. Thinking of Nelvana's "Card Captors" still puts me in a homicidal rage. Censored, butchered and rewritten to "appeal to boys" the damn thing is the text book example of everything wrong with TV licensed anime and the DVDs that followed.

Post #239450 - Reply to (#239400) by drunkguy
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7:17 am, Dec 20 2008
Posts: 332


.

Last edited by Sijy at 11:32 am, Dec 25 2015

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The Gorilla Killa™
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8:08 am, Dec 20 2008
Posts: 3229


Technically, it is illegal since you could just wait for the translated manga to come out in stores, or for the dub of the anime to come out on TV. But most people who download the manga and anime support the dubbing and translations when they come out because other things that they would want (games, clothing, accessories, etc) would only come out in their country once the story they like is licensed.

Personally, I have no soul, so I just download the manga and anime like it's nothing. bigrazz And if there's a game I want, I get it from Ebay and go to Gamefaqs for a translated guide (I did this for Jump Ultimate Stars).

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Post #239799 - Reply to (#239450) by Sijy
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Bwaaah!
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7:08 pm, Dec 21 2008
Posts: 838


Quote from Sijy
Again, I have no moral qualms about not watching commercials. As said I've recorded shows and fast forwarded through commercials, or gone to the bathroom during commercials, etc. Plus. None of my purchases are not based on commercials. I recently got a new car, so every single car commercial means absolutely nothing to me (and yes, I chose my car based on utility, consumer reports and the nice autos.yahoo website comparisons...never saw an advertisement for my car yet). If a sponsor wants to show an ad to an entirely unbuying viewer, that is just a waste of everyone's time.


I don't either. Most advertisements makes me think of shysters and thieves. That and advertising has become excessive to the point that their effects aren't as noticeable anymore. Still, it does have the power to sway people, hence it's value to broadcasters. The "unbuying viewer" is truly a rare animal. You may not think you're swayed by ads but anyone who ever went to a McDonald's has been.

Quote from Sijy
Another question: if one pays for cable, why must one also have to watch commercials? It's the same feed as broadcast (so it's *somewhat* understandable for those to have commercials...even though it is public airwaves...), but if one pays for something, why must one have to be advertised to? (similar to compulsory ads in the front of dvd videos)


In the case of network TV broadcast, it really can't be helped if there are commercials even on cable since it would likely raise costs. Also, commercials for cable broadcasting does provide income for more programming. That said, the main reason they can put so many damned commercials in every show is because cable companies control monopolies in their areas which is never a good thing. When they have to butcher out scenes from old "Simpsons" episodes to make commercials fit, you know something is going terribly wrong.

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