Man, you pseudo-intellectuals really try my nerves.

Indreju, shut up. You really have no clue what you're saying. Frankly, you need to work on your English. That's not gonna cut it in the real world. Blind faith is deserving of insults.

Also, stop threatening me with your mods. Is the only way for you to win an internet argument for me to get banned? Sad. Guess you'll never learn how to use actual arguments if you keep relying on someone else to stop people smarter than you.


I have already showed you why I'm right. You were using an archaic definition. Those are not real elements. The only way they could be used in the way that you've described them in this day and age is to be referenced in fiction.

It actually is name-calling. I don't want to be referred to, just as you don't want to be referred to by anything but Kaioh.

Though, I don't think you realize that I'm just trying to prove a point. You're acting incredibly stuck up by not allowing anyone to call you anything but Kaioh. So if you get that privilege, I don't want to be called anything. That's fair. Either modify your statement, deal with it, or bend the rules because you're a mod (I love crutches, don't you?).

________________

AGAIN, you've given no proof or references other than "You were using an archaic definition".

Fine, here's the definition of Element.

Element [el-uh-muhnt].
Noun.
1.a component or constituent of a whole or one of the parts into which a whole may be resolved by analysis: Bricks and mortar are elements of every masonry wall.
2.Chemistry. one of a class of substances that cannot be separated into simpler substances by chemical means. See also chart under periodic table.
3.a natural habitat, sphere of activity, environment, etc.: to be in one's element; Water is the element of fish.
4.elements,
a.atmospheric agencies or forces; weather: a ruddy complexion from exposure to the elements.
b.the rudimentary principles of an art, science, etc.: the elements of grammar.
c.the bread and wine of the Eucharistic service.
5.any group of people singled out within a larger group by identifiable behavior patterns, common interests, ethnic similarities, etc.: He worried that the protest rally would attract the radical element.
6.one of the substances, usually earth, water, air, and fire, formerly regarded as constituting the material universe.
7.Mathematics.
a.an infinitesimal part of a given quantity, similar in nature to it.
b.an entity that satisfies all the conditions of belonging to a given set.
8.Geometry. one of the points, lines, planes, or other geometrical forms, of which a figure is composed.
9.Astronomy. any of the data required to define the precise nature of an orbit and to determine the position of a planet in the orbit at any given time.
10.Electricity. an electric device with terminals for connection to other electrical devices.
11.Radio. one of the electrodes in a vacuum tube.
12.Astrology. any of the four triplicity groupings of signs: fire, earth, air, or water.
13.Optics. any of the lenses or other components constituting an optical system.
14.Grammar. any word, part of a word, or group of words that recurs in various contexts in a language with relatively constant meaning.

See number six?

You do?

Good. No accept you're wrong and move along. I'm honestly quite sick of you trying to think you can do whatever you want here. You're not a moderator, or an administrator. You are a member. Start acting like it, or leave.

And since you seem so dead set on picking an option, fine, ill pick the last one. I'll call you Dark_Sage if I so chose to. Other people will aswell. You think that gives you any right to call me something other than my username?

Guess what, it doesn't.

Now, as I said. Move along.

________________
Welcome to Manga-Updates!
If you're new, please read the rules.
If you're returning, please follow them.

the burden of proof is not nesessary in the hands of wilightDrgn nor is it in the hands of Dark_Sage:

The burden of proof is those who want to make others belive what they themself belive

Well I am twofaced but voted yes.
No-one been able to proof that god does not exist so I have to vote yes!




Actually this makes me insured
If god does not exist then there is nothing after this live - Beliveing in god makes me think about my actions before I act on my impulses so it makes me a better person.
If god does exist then I´ve tried my best to be a good person and Peter will let me inside. Or I will be reborn and my karma is better than if I´d acted on my impulses...

Like I said; as no-one is able to proof to me that god does not exist I have to belive in god, karma and rebirth... just as I belive in the air I breath

________________
----------------------------------------
This is Gutti. He was born 04.05.2005 at my house and we are all his slaves...

May I ask you when I ever tried to prove that god exists? Though I believe in a higher power than man, I never tried to argue that there is. All I have said is that science as a whole never claims to have the entire truth, only possibilities based on evidence and that claiming that science or anyone else can prove that there is or isn't a god based on "scientific" evidence is a liar. Ask anyone who teaches a college science class and they will tell you that science is all just educated guesses based on evidence and probability.


Wow I never expected to Pascal's wager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager) used in real life. Look at this people though this view may have some people who don't agree with it (namely me on a personal, religious sense), thinking this way is perhaps the only way to cover as many bases in a discussion between whether the universe in monistic or dualistic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monism) because idealy according to the logic of the person in question he can't be screwed no matter what.

Last edited by TwilightDrgn at 5:21 pm, Oct 4 2007

________________
"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

Wow. Kai's resorted to deleting my posts so he can win an internet argument.

Fucking bullshit.

________________

See what I just did there, Dark_Sage?

Thats called deleting a post for breaking the rules.

Thats something I can do.

You've been bugging me and bugging me to pull that card out, though. Why so angry when I finally do?

Oh, and by the way. The third definition also uses Water as an Element as an example. So, nice try there.

At failing.

EDIT:
Oh, I don't need to delete posts to win arguments, especially when I already won them.

Just because you do not accept you're wrong, doesn't mean you're not. Anyone can clearly see you are wrong, except you.

________________
Welcome to Manga-Updates!
If you're new, please read the rules.
If you're returning, please follow them.

This topic is now reopened for discussion.

I'd like to apologize to everyone who was trying to actually have a though provoking conversation.

________________
Welcome to Manga-Updates!
If you're new, please read the rules.
If you're returning, please follow them.

Well to try to start back up the discussion here I will make a comment about my personal beliefs.

I personally think believing in God in my life is the most important thing in my life. Though I try my very best to stay open-minded about the issue, I can truly say the motivation for the majority of the things I do or don't do stem from my religious beliefs to some extent. The very reason I don't or that I do things that I know that no one will never find out about is because I honestly love my God.

________________
"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

I'm pretty sure I might've stated this many pages back, but it might help spark another discussion. Who knows.

Yes, I'm an atheist, but I do try my best to remain open-minded. I know I'm not a science major or a genius, but I go by a rather simple idea involving my lack of belief in a god.

You cannot prove that any god exists with physical evidence. But you can't prove that any god DOESN'T exist with physical evidence, either, so it seems to end at a stand-still.

When I was younger, I decided to go neutral on the issue for this reason. Even if I DID try to choose a religion to believe in, how was I to know which was right when all religions have the same, basic validity in the face of proof? I'd be a hypocrite either way, so I thought it best to just wait until one is favoured by evidence.

Now I realise there is another reason: you cannot prove OR disprove the existence of any mythical beings, either. Thus, I decided that believing in a divine entity was the same as believing in unicorns, faeries, and vampires. And, since I do not believe in the existence of such beings, I decided that believing in a god just because there's the slightly possibility would be somewhat hypocritical.

Basically, I'm an atheist until I find proof that shows the existence of a god that is inexplainable by science.

-I understand that you under some definition consider both under the same category but do you think that it is fair to compare deity (which many religions claim to be noncoporeal anyway) to things which if they did (or I suppose in this manner do) exist that they would exist in a physical manner. In my opinion it is more similar to compare the existence of deity to the existence of ghosts since because if either exist neither would have to manifest themselves in a physical manner to exist.

________________
"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

the basic principle of religion is first of all faith
second comes questions and answers
of course since this is a discussion of God
many people are seeking proof
real proof can only come through personal experience
If you want to find God you must seek God personally

I being monotheistic believe there is only one God
asuming we speak of a monotheistic God
then you have three main choices for religion
Christianity, Judaism or Islam

Of course Humans can't prove the absolute existence of God
because they are just that human
If God could be quantified everyone would know
whether or not he exists and there would be no discussion

Well if we don't have a philosopher in our midst. To be honest where if I see the complexity of the universe and see it as evidence as a supreme creator, an atheist can look at the same thing and come out with completely different conclusions. The difference comes mainly from what perspective your looking at the evidence.

________________
"Don't worry about the fine print. The soul consumption clause is never exorcised

lol
that is very true indeed
although if you think about the probabilities
involved in creating a complex universe such as ours
even 6 billion years or whatever is a very short time
for it to have come out exactly like this
especially if you look at biology the perfect
unity in which cells and the body function is a miracle in itself

...wow... alot happened while i was gone…>_> I better keep my mouth shut about that interesting drama up there

I doubt I’ll ever believe in god till he comes down dressed in a toga and sap me with a lightning with his finger and then fly away on wing….or walk on water and turning it to beer while doing so XD.

But I see no reason to disprove other religious people, for the pure reason that I can’t disprove the existence of god. Long as they don’t come to me with a cross and try to convert me with passages (a philipino tried that once on me. He didn’t come to school for a few days after =D) I’m fine with it

But while I’m at it, I like to open a secondary discussion under this topic. What do you think of jesus? Was he a child of god? Or was he simply a great man who accomplished many things that became miracles under the telling of his disciples and gathered a huge following and revolutionized a religion and later sacrificed himself for his ideals? I opt for #2


good grief...i don't think i ever had a post this long >_>

Last edited by Israfel at 7:55 pm, Oct 4 2007

________________
"Rule No. 1 is, don't sweat the small stuff. Rule No. 2 is, it's all small stuff." - Robert Eliot, Writer

"Oh boy, here we go...again." - Israfel

I'm getting too old....

obviously he was the son of God
he is the single most important historical figure in all of history as well there is no way you can deny that at least but of course he is the messiah to christians a prophet to muslims and a heretic to jews
i of course being christian believe he is the messiah and the son of god

also i notice how these threads involving god usually are really popular
i started one a couple years back on another forum i think its still goin on
lol