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Yaoi is Porn?

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Yaoi is Porn?
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Post #470093 - Reply to (#469979) by kaerfehtdeelb
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Lurker Queen.
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4:24 am, May 19 2011
Posts: 779


Quote from kaerfehtdeelb
Quote from tsuto
Quote from Sagaris
Quote from Miisa
Yes, it's porn.

Miisa hath spoken.


Wise those words are.

Well if THE miisa has spoken it, it must be the truth.


All hail the mighty Miisa!

This thread is now pointless. Burn, heathens!

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ManBearPig
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4:29 am, May 19 2011
Posts: 572


Goodness gracious me! I'm reading porn?! shy

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Rape is imminent.
Post #470102 - Reply to (#469986) by Crenshinibon
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5:36 am, May 19 2011
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Quote from Crenshinibon
Quote from Blique
People keep leaning on the general picture and not thinking about the details. Yes, I'd say the "majority" of yaoi has sex in each chapter or two, but it's hardly porn level. Most of the time I've seen, the artist uses the common method of making the genitalia invisible, because you're supposed to focus on the bonding of the characters, not use it to get aroused with.

And I could understand if you still consider those to be porn, but there's still the "minority" of yaoi titles to consider.

As I've said before, yaoi is an incredibly broad genre. We can separate manga into romance, ecchi, smut, borderline H, and hentai. Yaoi can contain any of those elements. It could be 76 chapters long, have 1 chapter that involves sex, and be labelled yaoi (yes, I've seen it).

This situation makes me imagine throwing two people in jail, one for murder and the other for jaywalking...


Well, aside from the fact that you actually can be put in jail for jaywalking (the maximum penalty is 3 months in the states, iirc), and the fact that you're obviously exaggerating, here's the thing.

The genitalia being hidden in most cases is due to Japanese law more than anything else- remember, you have to censor artwork with a mosaic or fog or whatever. Some are less explicit simply to avoid ruining the artwork. But in either case, that would still fall under the category of "softcore porn" because it's still showing sex. That doesn't make it better or worse in terms of storytelling, it just means that from a semantic standpoint the label would still apply.

As to your whole "in the details" argument- look, you can find exceptions for every rule. What we do have is a... we'll say "artistic movement" because genre isn't quite the right word, which traditionally includes sex. Anything following that tradition takes the label of "pornographic material," and so the entire body of work is going to have that applied as a general rule unless otherwise stated. Heck, we actually base the yaoi classification on this site on the inclusion of sexually explicit material. If we're talking general BL there's more leeway, but if the majority of the titles fit the description then there's going to be a general label.


Well, yes, the censorship law. But, the censorship law has been lifted, and many BL mangaka STILL censor their work. Its an artist's preference.


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Post #470103
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5:38 am, May 19 2011
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@Crenshinibon:
By heterosexual, I meant it in the literal term of "male and female in a sexual relationship". Also, there are a lot of yaoi that don't depict explicit sex - some only show them naked from the torso up during such scenes - but I could be misunderstanding the definition of explicit. I need to brush up on casual usage of terms...

Anyway, I understand the rest of what you're saying, so I guess we've reached an agreement.

@N0x_:
On a side note, I'm a female who reads both yaoi and hentai. Eh, I've never read Twilight, but if you mean bishounen, I like those too~

Last edited by Blique at 8:00 am, May 19 2011

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his and her sonnet
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8:38 am, May 19 2011
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the only yaoi ive enjoyed reading are the ones written by hagio moto im not even sure if the heart of thomas qualifies as yaoi(its more of a shounen ai) but a cruel god reigns is definetly yaoi.
other than that ive dropped all other yaois,it seems like the driving force of the plot is always sex, so yes it is porn.

Last edited by sarah-eats-cupcakes at 9:19 am, May 19 2011

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10:38 am, May 19 2011
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YAOI is porn

if u want a BL that is not a porn then ur talking about shonen ai

Post #470156 - Reply to (#470153) by Hespia Klarerin
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10:40 am, May 19 2011
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Quote from Hespia Klarerin
YAOI is porn

if u want a BL that is not a porn then ur talking about shonen ai

I think bunny-chan's operating off of a system of nomenclature that differs from the one provided by MU that's seemingly generally accepted by this site's community.

Post #470171 - Reply to (#470153) by Hespia Klarerin
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11:33 am, May 19 2011
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Quote from Hespia Klarerin
YAOI is porn

if u want a BL that is not a porn then ur talking about shonen ai


Shonen-ai means paedophile sex in Japanese publishing.

Yaoi is fan-made BL.

BL is professional made male/male romances, explicit or not, for women.

Quote from Sagaris
I think bunny-chan's operating off of a system of nomenclature that differs from the one provided by MU that's seemingly generally accepted by this site's community.


Yes, I am operating off proper terminology that is used in Japanese BL publishing industries.

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Post #470195 - Reply to (#470103) by Blique
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12:34 pm, May 19 2011
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You can label it however you want, but it will not change the fact that if it's sexually explicit it is porn. If it's a little less explicit then it falls under the category of softcore porn.


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Post #470238 - Reply to (#470103) by Blique
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4:02 pm, May 19 2011
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Quote from Blique
@N0x_:
On a side note, I'm a female who reads both yaoi and hentai. Eh, I've never read Twilight, but if you mean bishounen, I like those too~

Cool. Could you tell me what you like about Yaoi? Private or public, I don't mind.

I am just curious. Trust that I won't assume your answer represents other womens'.

I just assume that most women like Yaoi because it allows them to fantasize about two different men, without the interference of women. Kind of why I sometimes fantasize about being a lesbian. Of course, this is just an assumption.

Post #470275 - Reply to (#470238) by N0x_
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8:18 pm, May 19 2011
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Quote from N0x_
Cool. Could you tell me what you like about Yaoi? Private or public, I don't mind.

I am just curious. Trust that I won't assume your answer represents other womens'.

I just assume that most women like Yaoi because it allows them to fantasize about two different men, without the interference of women. Kind of why I sometimes fantasize about being a lesbian. Of course, this is just an assumption.

Hmm, I like yaoi because it takes out the gender issues I have to subconsciously deal with when reading a straight romance, as males and females aren't equal in every way. For example, when the heroine gets in trouble, I expect the guy to save her; if they get into a fight, the guy should never so much as slap her (but she can hit him); and if both sides are to blame in said fight, I find fault in the guy for not doing his best to make her happy.

I was raised to believe these sorts of gender expectations, plus as a girl, it's easier to empathize with the female lead and more or less ignore the guy. Subconsciously. So with yaoi, they're both guys, and I can empathize with them more or less equally.

In comparison to shounen ai, I prefer yaoi because in shounen ai, the intimacy of the romance is restricted to more or less kissing at the most. This is good in many cases, though for some romances where you know the couple is in a sexual relationship, the "fade out" method sometimes feels forced.

Last edited by Blique at 12:42 pm, May 20 2011

Post #470380 - Reply to (#470195) by UnknownUser
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5:37 am, May 20 2011
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Quote from LawX
You can label it however you want, but it will not change the fact that if it's sexually explicit it is porn. If it's a little less explicit then it falls under the category of softcore porn.


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Fair enough, but... I think NOT all BL is porn.

Quote from Scyfon
If hentai is considered porn, I don't see how two guys having a go at poking in the wrong hole isn't.


There are hentai (yes, for men) that has two guys poking dicks in eachothers butt... and when it happens in BL, its supposed to represent sealing a relationship (but there are others that glorify man-rape, like lets see here... a bunch, like GUREN Naomi, dare I say it, YAMANE Ayano and MINAMI Haruka, which I like, but yes those artists work, I would openly say are pornographic? But it depends on the mangaka.)



Last edited by Bunny-chan at 1:03 pm, May 20 2011

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4:16 am, May 22 2011
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I thought yaoi is the porn version of shounen ai, was I wrong? roll eyes roll eyes

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Post #470893 - Reply to (#470880) by Domonkazu
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insomniac Kagehime
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5:36 am, May 22 2011
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Quote from Domonkazu
I thought yaoi is the porn version of shounen ai, was I wrong? roll eyes roll eyes

yaoi is shounen ai with sexuel content. still it is not like you can see all the parts you can see in hentai and itΒ΄s often more romance focused then porn

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11:35 am, May 23 2011
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Yeah, but some artists like to draw the "naughty bits", but they generally aren't too explicitly shown or detailed much... but yes, "hentai" is usually more explicit.

But BL stuff like Mika Sadahiro's Under Grand Hotel and many of GUREN Naomi's and MINAMI Haruka's works could probably fit nicely in the "porn" category...

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