to moderate ( I mean "to erase" ) the release announcements from groups that ask to post x number of non spam messages on their forum in order to have access to their releases. So when they decide to make their release freely available(without any constraints like those), they just can put it here, like all the other groups do. (i'm willing to volunteer for this kind of moderation)

Why?
I kinda consider these kind of groups (shoujo ones, with few exceptions) like I consider the narutofan website.They want the people to pay them (not with money, but with time, lies and above all, with attention) to have the privilege to read what they are doing while other people do it for free. Considering the very small number of people usually frequenting their forums (the great majority of these people are just "spamming" their way up to the required number of post and then stop posting. The regular posters are the members of the group and few member of other groups of the same kind), you can say that unless someone have pity and post the release somewhere where it's easy to access (mediafire, rapidshare, megaupload or online viewers), you can never read what they are releasing, making these releases announcements on MU resemble to simple spam to make some publicity for their group.
So I, and a bunch of other people reading MU, check their website for the release, face the ridiculous demand of XX non-spam-post-DNA-sample-and-piss-in-the-bottle-please, and drop the idea of reading the release, going all FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUU for the time lost searching for the download link and the false hope to read something good.
(Basically they gain the money from the ads when people visit their website, but their rules chase away the great majority of these people so they don't download the releases, preventing the use of bandwidth, keeping the cost of the server very low. <- why i compare them to narutofan)

Note that i don't even dream to ask them to drop their "give us some attention please" attitude.
They can still keep the prime of their release for their members (members that will find out new releases simply by checking the group website), they'll just have to wait until they are ready to publish it to the rest of the folks to announce it here. Of course, it will have to be available somewhere (irc, hosts etc etc).

And with some luck they might even gain the sympathy of people and augment the frequentation of their forum by touching more people than they do actually.

What i like about sarcasms is when people don't get it they think you are nice.

This is an absurd suggestion. These people are providing a free service for your benefit, they're allowed to release however they want to. All you're accomplishing here is being rude.

The comparison to narutofan is off for a variety of reasons. Not all of them even use advertising, and rarely enough to actually have some sort of revenue. More importantly, this is material that they produced themselves, they didn't take something that was publicly released and attempt to sell it as some sort of "exclusive" material.

Additionally, your suggestion of forced wait-times won't actually affect the groups releasing style. I sincerely doubt that a listing on MU would be enough to change a method such as this, and it would compromise the accuracy of the dates that the scanlations actually become available to those who have met the posting requirements.

In short, this is a lot of work that accomplishes virtually nothing and is incredibly rude to people who are essentially volunteering their time. I don't see why anyone would want to implement this other than being bitter and/or impatient.

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Quote from Crenshinibon

This is an absurd suggestion. These people are providing a free service for your benefit, they're allowed to release however they want to. All you're accomplishing here is being rude.

i don't think you understood what i said.

The comparison to narutofan is off for a variety of reasons. Not all of them even use advertising, and rarely enough to actually have some sort of revenue. More importantly, this is material that they produced themselves, they didn't take something that was publicly released and attempt to sell it as some sort of "exclusive" material.

i exaggerated the analogy purposely. what they want (and i know for having tried to discuss this rule of X posts to have access to releases with a few of these groups) is to have some sort of acknowledgement from their readers by forcing them to post on their board so they can be deemed worthy of reading their work. Some of them have however some kind of rule asking people to wait a few days before hosting their work elsewhere. that where my suggestion comes.

Additionally, your suggestion of forced wait-times won't actually affect the groups releasing style. I sincerely doubt that a listing on MU would be enough to change a method such as this, and it would compromise the accuracy of the dates that the scanlations actually become available to those who have met the posting requirements.

The forced wait-times is not my idea. They have implemented it themselves (for the groups that "allow" their work to be hosted elsewhere).
The idea is to remove the release announcement that lead to some kind of condition that prevent the great majority of MU surfers to access this release like any of the other releases made by non shoujo groups. So their members can keep a privileged access to the release (and these members can see the new release on the group website), and when they are willing to publish it freely for the rest of the folks, then they give a link to somewhere (irc, website, rapidshare, mediafire) and make the release announcement here.

In short, this is a lot of work that accomplishes virtually nothing and is incredibly rude to people who are essentially volunteering their time. I don't see why anyone would want to implement this other than being bitter and/or impatient.

Honestly, what's the point in making a release announcement of a series when you don't give a free access to this series ? You can check for yourself on how many people are pissed at the way the shoujo groups are acting, while the other groups gives great work, free access and receive the consideration they have earned by doing the same thing (giving their free time) ?

I also participate in my own way to this community by giving my free time. And the rest of the free time i have, i don't want to spend it by elaborating lies to please a couple of people by posting 15 messages on forum A to read a release, then 30 messages on forum B to read release from group B, then 25 messages on forum C to read a oneshot from group C. Of course, i can't post these message consecutively, because in that case it's spamming and i'll be banned...
If you mutliply that by the number of shoujo group that pratice the same stupid rule, you can forget the reading time...
Hence my suggestion, so people like me (and there a lot like me) won't lose their time checking websites without free access.

Note that remove nothing from the gratitude i might have for the groups i read from (lets take aerandria as exemple: great job, and free access.) I think the gratitude can not be asked from people (asking them to post so they can get your work), because it's pure hypocrisy, they do not post because they appreciate your work, they post to read it (and maybe dislike it). Gratitude can be found in the number of download your work do (if people read it, then it must be good. and if your work is good, you'll find people coming to your board and thanking you and ask you for more.
That's kinda why the shoujo forums are usually full of member with 1 message or less. Check http://z10.invisionfree.com/Fateful_Encounters/index.php?act=Members as example (their last "release" made me want to post this message) they ask 15 posts of at least 20 words each, no more than7 posts per day or it is considered as spam. If you don't post in a given number of months, they remove some of your posts (so if you drop below 15 you can't download their stuff anymore).As you can see on the link provided, they have something like 500 members (give or take 10). That's big. Except that 350 of these 500 never posted anything (they probably read the rules after joining). Add another 100 members that have less than the required number of posts, and you have 50 members that have access to the releases.8 of these 50 are staff members or admins. so that make 42 people allowed to read their releases...At least they authorize people to host their releases after 2 days (the funny thing is if you want to read one of their release you'll have to wait 3 days (15 messages to posts, 7 per day max) to download it from their board if it's your first time)
The last release, http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=15883 show that 163 people are wishing to read their stuff (and 70 already read it, i'd like to know where they got it). Basically they are just working for a handfull of people while they could give it to more people and augment the chance of frequentation of their board (instead of threatening people to post). And i still can't figure it out why it's only shoujo groups that works that way( this group is just an example, there is worse)

What i like about sarcasms is when people don't get it they think you are nice.

This doesn't sound useful. I would rather go and support the group by doing what they ask for their releases. Oh and, they put it up on announcements BECAUSE there are people who DO post on their forums and other things for their releases. These release announcements are in the end just announcements, not saying its free to come and download.

respect the wishes of groups even though you may not like them. after all they don't have to scan anything. if you want your own rules make your own scanlation group and play with your own rules.

I understood what you said completely, and I still believe that it's absurd. You haven't explained anything here that adds at all to your point. The fact of the matter is that these people are doing the work- not you- and they have no obligation to do so in the first place.

You say that it's not "freely" released, but at the same time anyone can go ahead and meet the posting requirements. It isn't releasing solely to "people they deem worthy" , but to anyone that takes the time to participate in their community. As a result, it is released to those people at that time, and thus a release still occurs for anyone willing to make the effort. If you don't record that release you're essentially withholding information for people who should have access if they want, and placing false information in a database whose goal is to be accurate.

By "forced wait-times" I was referring to waiting to record the release, not the act of releasing itself.

You seem to have the illusion that there's some sort of standard for "freedom" in the community. Some groups do irc-only releases for 24 hours (or permanently) for the same purpose (getting people to thank them directly), are you proposing that we also wait until those 24 hours are up to record those releases? Because you don't seem to be complaining about that, and in the same sense it's just as restricted since there are a large number of people who don't know how to use irc (though the information is just as readily available as the ability to post in forums is).

The fact of the matter is that no matter how many people don't like the system, it's still being discourteous to people who are doing something for your benefit. It's like a homeless guy yelling at the volunteers because he has to wait for food in a soup kitchen instead of getting it instantly. It's just impatience. If they really bother you that much, just either don't read their releases or wait until they pop up somewhere else, it's not like it's going to hurt you. In the meantime things should still be recorded with their proper release date, not the date it becomes available to people who refuse to participate in a system.

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Reviews of my Work:
You are kind of boring - Blackorion
Congratulations! Ur an asshole! - tokyo_homi
**Your awesome!!! **- Cherelle_Ashley
NightSwan also said that she wanted to peg me, once, but I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or a threat...

Quote from Crenshinibon

I understood what you said completely, and I still believe that it's absurd. You haven't explained anything here that adds at all to your point. The fact of the matter is that these people are doing the work- not you- and they have no obligation to do so in the first place.

Still, i haven't got any reply from them (shoujo groups) or anyone else, as why are they the only one in the scanlation world to do so. Why are they voluntarily limiting the number of people that read their stuff? Why are they making an annoucement to the publi if they keep it to a handfull of people?

You say that it's not "freely" released, but at the same time anyone can go ahead and meet the posting requirements. It isn't releasing solely to "people they deem worthy" , but to anyone that takes the time to participate in their community. As a result, it is released to those people at that time, and thus a release still occurs for anyone willing to make the effort. If you don't record that release you're essentially withholding information for people who should have access if they want, and placing false information in a database whose goal is to be accurate.

You can't force people to participate in a community, the example of the forum from fateful encounter proves it, you can count on the two hands the number of people that are "actively" participating in their community. On the other hand, aerandria's forum is quite active, and yet they don't ask people to participate. You can check any other shoujo group forum, the ones asking participation are the less actives. And that's my whole point: what are they trying to do don't work, never had, never will. It just prevent people to read their work.
you said anyone can go ahead and meet the requirements, so why doesn't it work ? simple: it's bothersome. People are working, going to school, having their friends and we also have our own forum we frequent, ones we chose to frequent. I don't want to fake taking interest into people to read something they produced. On the opposite, if i find their work interesting, i also might want to congratulate them, and given time, start to communicate on a regular basis with them.
And there is no withhold of informations here, it's a mean to make them realize that it's in their best interest to stop doing like that. A release that's only available to selected people (even if anybody can join their community for the x posts, they won't bother, that's why there is 350 people with 0 messages on fateful encounter's forum) is not really a release. A movie release is dated from the day it's available to the common people, not from the day it's shown to the press (and anybody can be in the press, you just have to meet the requirement...)

You seem to have the illusion that there's some sort of standard for "freedom" in the community. Some groups do irc-only releases for 24 hours (or permanently) for the same purpose (getting people to thank them directly), are you proposing that we also wait until those 24 hours are up to record those releases? Because you don't seem to be complaining about that, and in the same sense it's just as restricted since there are a large number of people who don't know how to use irc (though the information is just as readily available as the ability to post in forums is).

these groups usually have a FAQ explaining how to use irc, they do not ask anything in return (you're not even forced to say thanks if you don't want to, you join the irc chan,type the command and leave after the download is finished). It's impolite, but it's possible. It's also a mean to limit the bandwidth usage of a website, since the first 48h after a release is the moment it's highly demanded.
This example of yours does not apply here (since on one hand you have a group of people asking something in exchange or something else, while on the other hand they ask nothing in return (they might ask, but you are not forced to do so. and even so, asking 1 word, vs asking 15*20 words minimum...).

The fact of the matter is that no matter how many people don't like the system, it's still being discourteous to people who are doing something for your benefit. It's like a homeless guy yelling at the volunteers because he has to wait for food in a soup kitchen instead of getting it instantly. It's just impatience. If they really bother you that much, just either don't read their releases or wait until they pop up somewhere else, it's not like it's going to hurt you. In the meantime things should still be recorded with their proper release date, not the date it becomes available to people who refuse to participate in a system.

It's the other way around: i see MU as a menu were people propose the stuff they made.
It's like a volunteer asking the homeless to write down 15 poem in haiku if he wants to eat, while the other volunteers propose the food with a smile and a "i hope you appreciate it". (if you were in this situation, to which volunteer would you prefer to show gratitude?)

If it were impatience, i wouldn't ask them (for the ones that agree to release to the public) to WAIT the X number of days they asking in their rules before announcing the release here.
I frankly lost the count (and the titles) of the mangas i didn't read because of this rule, and i find it kind of sad that these people spend so much time doing this work and do not want to share it with more people.

What i like about sarcasms is when people don't get it they think you are nice.

Shoutr, the problem lies within you, not them: they do the scanlations, they can "ask" whatever they want, to distribute their material. If you dont want to become part of their "circle of people" who cares for the group and chats every now and then, beginning to know better the guys who scanlate and work hard for you, then wait for someone else "less demanding"(?!) to scanlate your preferite series. I see no problem in it: you cant forcefully say "no, there's no release because they demand me to post x posts/random demand". They actually scanlated something, its up to us to meet the requirement to receive their product. Easy.

Quote from Mamsmilk

Quote from x0mbiec0rp

Quote from Mamsmilk

I need a die with 2 sides.

That's known as a "coin".

Oh, thanks. Too much D&D.

As grandexeno said, they can ask whatever they want.
It's not like you must obey and post...
You don't have to pay, they do all the hard work.

Imagine how it would have been if every group demanded pay or something of the sort for downloads. You'd have bagged for things like "10 posts and download to your heart's content"

Don't take things for granted. Be thankfull there are groups that are willing to waste their time and money for our benefit.

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Quote from grandexeno

Shoutr, the problem lies within you, not them: they do the scanlations, they can "ask" whatever they want, to distribute their material. If you dont want to become part of their "circle of people" who cares for the group and chats every now and then, beginning to know better the guys who scanlate and work hard for you, then wait for someone else "less demanding"(?!) to scanlate your preferite series. I see no problem in it: you cant forcefully say "no, there's no release because they demand me to post x posts/random demand". They actually scanlated something, its up to us to meet the requirement to receive their product. Easy.

Exactly.

They aren't "keeping it to a handful of people". It's open to anyone, you don't have to have a college degree or be hired by a newspaper or other media source, you just have to spend a little bit of time to meet the requirement. It's not the same thing at all.

As to irc, they do offer guides. And these primarily shoujo groups also offer the forums. This proves that you're actually complaining about ease of access, not exclusivity, and for the people who have already met the requirement it's perfectly easy to access.

MU is not a "menu" but a database, so the point is moot. Its purpose is to provide information, and not only about scanlated manga, but manga in general. As such, the priority is simply the information that it has been released, as long as it's available it's available, even if it's to less people than you would like. Whether or not you want to create some sort of deterrent, the fact is that is still has been released, you can't change that just because you don't like it.

If you just want to be lazy that's fine, but it means you have to wait, it's not like the requirements are impossible or even particularly difficult. It comes down to the fact that you (and others) find it bothersome, and while that's fine as an opinion, these groups have the right to do whatever they want with the material they produce. I've actually been told that they do get a lot more thanks since having that system, so they at least feel that it is working and worthwhile. Your opinion on the subject is irrelevant.

As to why it's only shoujo groups, my guess would be that it's a cultural thing. A part of it is probably that a lot of them don't seem to really use irc, and probably the people that began the system were in a shoujo group and it spread since all the groups are mainly dealing with the same audience.

And just as a small point on the side, virtually anyone can add a release on MU once you become an updater. So it isn't necessarily the groups that are in the first place.

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Reviews of my Work:
You are kind of boring - Blackorion
Congratulations! Ur an asshole! - tokyo_homi
**Your awesome!!! **- Cherelle_Ashley
NightSwan also said that she wanted to peg me, once, but I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or a threat...

...

Locked, points have been made...

I WILL NOT be following your suggestion. End of story

A just ruler amongst tyrants