When the first matrix movie came out I really liked it. The other two not as much because the concept wasn't as fresh as the first, but they were still entertaining to watch.

I randomly thought about its premise and found it somewhat illogical maybe? I'm not talking about whether or not its plausable.

"Man created AI, AI kills off most of man, AI creates virtual world for human minds to live in and uses their bodies as a part of their power generating."

Now, If you think about it, living in the matrix is no different really than living in real life. The only apparent time the machines ever interfere is when something threatens the existence of the matrix (the agents fighting against the people from zion). The machines apparently don't oppress the people in the matrix and allow them to live out their lives freely as they would have if they weren't living in a virtual world.

The virtual world of the matrix when compared to the real world outside of it is in far better condition. The virtual world's climate and environment are totally controlled by the system of the matrix, so unless the machines want it to happen nothing will go to shit like it would in the real world. No greenhouse effect, pollution, etc.

In exchange for a perfect environment where people are free to live out their lives, humans just have to allow the machines the use of their bodies to help produce energy.

Imo thats a rather perfect symbiotic relationship.

Feed your head.

Indeed, but there just had to be Agent Smith.

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'The Matrix' is my favourite film, I had to reply 🙂

Yeah, you live in a capsule filled with this pink liquid thing, you are taken care of in terms of nutrition and things like that. And you live in a dream you never wake up from. Perfect.

However, I don't agree. Because one huge disadvantage of living in the Matrix is the fact that it's not a real life. It seems that values such as freedom and free will are not very important to people nowadays, but at least they are important to me. Using a metaphor, I'd rather be a bird which is free but suffers from hunger and is eaten by a cat in the end, than a hen, laying eggs, fed and generally taken care of, but still living in a cage.

To make it simpler, I don't like the idea of whole mankind being a battery for machines it created. It just doesn't seem right. I's like bringing down human existence to producing energy. After all, the Matrix is a lie. I don't want my life to be a lie.

And, of course, living in a real world you can go back to the Matrix and do these cool karate, kung fu, jumping things.

By the way, have you seen Animatrix? I think it's connected with the topic.

I thought about it when I was watching the movies.
My conclusion was this - I'd rather live in the Matrix than labor in the real, ruined world.
I don't want to go into the "what's real" and "how can we tell reality apart from a dream" themes,
but I don't care what "real is".

In the end, I could say that people brought it on themselves.

Using a metaphor, I'd rather be a bird which is free but suffers from hunger and is eaten by a cat in the end, than a hen, laying eggs, fed and generally taken care of, but still living in a cage.

Don't we all live in a cage for our protection and allow ourselves be taken care of?
The eggs are payment for the shelter and food.
We work and buy our so called "freedom".

Let's say you had lived and died in the Matrix reality, never knowing about the outside.
How would that be so different than living the lives we lead now?
Just because we'd supply the machines with power? So what?
Would you be ready to give up on everything for the ideal of "freedom"?
Because once you're out of the Matrix, the life you were used to would no longer exist.

It's not that I don't value freedom.
I just don't believe in the idealistic image people have given it.

Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.
[img]http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp199/SyberAngelGabrielle/couplesig.jpg[/img]
[color=black]And if the world were black and white,
you would be my rainbow in shades of grey.[/color]

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If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.

The idea of the "Matrix" is not really that new:
Link

No, I think you're misunderstanding something.

The environment inside the Matrix was not perfect; remember, Agent Smith explained that they tried a perfect world inside the Matrix (no disease, disaster), but Humans would never accept it.

Therefor, they developed a less perfect Matrix identical to our current reality (well, current as in the 90s).

Anyway, if I could fly and junk I would be perfectly happy inside the Matrix.

Quote from Emuchan

The idea of the "Matrix" is not really that new:
Link

I hardly see what this has to do with the idea of the Matrix (although I only skimmed over it). But you are right, the idea of the idea of humanity living inside a computer simulation was hardly new to the film.

Quote from HumanoidInterface

Quote from Emuchan

The idea of the "Matrix" is not really that new:
Link

I hardly see what this has to do with the idea of the Matrix. But you are right, the idea of the idea of humanity living inside a computer simulation was hardly new to the film.

Allegory of the Cave and The Matrix both deal with the thought that "what we see or seem is but a dream within a dream." It's not about a computer simulation... but the idea that what we are and what the world is, is just an illusion.

[color=green]"Officially, this machine doesn't exist, you didn't get it from me,
and I don't know you. Make sure it doesn't leave the building."[/color]

Quote from NightSwan

Don't we all live in a cage for our protection and allow ourselves be taken care of?
The eggs are payment for the shelter and food.
We work and buy our so called "freedom".

Quote from NightSwan

It's not that I don't value freedom.
I just don't believe in the idealistic image people have given it.

And, as I said, you bring down human existence to working and buying.
I think the Matrix is a symbol of such existence - without stopping to think about the meaning of life, working like a part of a machine. And people who were freed from the Matrix are those who picked a more difficult path. I could write more, but I'm afraid my English isn't good enough to express everything I want 🙂

Freedom is an ideal. If it's not idealistic, then it's not freedom. But I think that people's views on it depend on a country and culture they are from so there's no point in discussing this.

If you go Derrida's way, then everything is a matrix, and you can never escape - get out of one matrix and you're immediately in another one.

So I don't care whether it's good or bad; it is what it is, and I'm fine with being in the matrix! (Since there's no way of living without being in a matrix and without being a matrix - of social/psychological/physical forces, if nothing else.)

The movie was just an allegory, but I don't think that life "outside" the matrix was any less real or more real. It's all a matter of perception. Yeah, spoon-bending and all that...

Well, if every single human was in the matrix then there wouldn't be any significant difference. But the thing is there were people outside it not connected, chased by the machines. If you go with the perspective of a person living inside of course it wouldn't be that bad. Now can you still say that if you were to be one of the people living outside?

This week's favorites:

• Golden Kamui

ççççççç[Ô.Ô] tsutopodus© will eat your manga and steal your cats!

I never quite understood the whole dream vs. reality thing. Reality is whatever you believe is the reality, and it doesn't matter what something is or isn't; things are just what you believe they are. (Am I making any sense? I can't really convey what I mean in words very well... but I hope I did it well enough)

Anyway, I wouldn't mind being in the matrix. Because while in the matrix, I would think the matrix was real, and by believing it was real it WOULD be real, and thus there would be no reason for me to want something else. If in the matrix I believed I was free, then I would be free, and I wouldn't have to try to chase after a freedom outside the matrix, because I would already be free.

(Basically I'm saying what Tartufo was saying, about it all being a matter of perception... sorry if I'm not making any sense)

Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?

The Matrix is indeed like the Allegory(Emuchan's link) in the aspect that you are living a lie.

The story of the Allegory is about how these people are in a cave, chained down, and the only thing they see are shapes made in a light. They know nothing else and question nothing else. In reality, those shapes are actually shadows created by people by a fire, but the chained "prisoners" do not know that. Then one person from the chained people manage to break free and get out of the cave.

Ask yourself. Do you believe in "Innocence is bliss"? That life is better if you were like a child, unknowing of the world's harsh realities? Or would you rather know the truth, even if it's painful, but still learn to grow and in essence, become an "adult"?

Would you rather go through your life being deceived? That is why the Matrix is so bad, even if it seems perfect. From the aspect of a person living in the Matrix, it seems all right, but take it from a different angle. Think of all these people put into a trance, believing in something that is not real(In a way, it's kind of like religion. I'm a Christian, mind you. this is just what my teacher had told me when we were studying the Allegory).

Go watch the movie "The Island". It's the same concept. You have a group of clones living in a futuristic "perfect" environment where everything is controlled and everything is "perfect". Every clone was made to believe that they are going to a safe haven called the "Island", but there is more to that belief.

Life is not perfect. In my opinion(as I've mentioned in another topic), a life completely like a "Garden of Eden" is disgusting in a way.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/OkzQ4.png[/img]

The main issue with being in the matrix are matters of freedom and control. By being in the matrix, you are never truly free, no matter how much you believe you are, and you will most likely not be able to escape. Upon finding this out, many humans who believe they are free would find this objectionable, but others may be willing to accept it. This is touched upon in the movies, given as a reason why not all humans can simply be pulled out.

As for control, robots control every aspect of the majority of the human races lives. That may be fine, but if they ever decide that humans are no longer necessary, or that they're not a worthwhile source of power because they may wish to overthrow their robot masters, they could be destroyed at will, or simply cut loose from the matrix suddenly in such a way that they wont survive. If there's a mechanical problem, millions of humans could die, without any control over their fate.

While these things aren't an issue for those in the matrix, who have no knowledge of their situation, those outside the matrix and those who have learned of humanity's predicament are likely to rebel, and to try to free humans to gain allies in order to live a better life. The problem was never being in the matrix, but learning that they were slaves.

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daisukidesuyo, thanks for this movie title! I've never heard of it and it seems to be very interesting, now I have to watch it 🙂 And thanks for expressing my views, too 🙂

Since Plato's cave was mentioned, I'd like to point out that 'The Matrix' is packed with philosophical contexts. For example, the idea of utopia actually not being a perfect place because humans need imperfections to live (and as a result the world we live in is the best possible) was started by German philosopher Gottfried Leibniz.