Quote from caozhi

Since when has homosexuality not been a part of nature? In the wild homosexuality is extensively studied within over 400 species and observed within 1500 species. That includes Japanese macaques, penguins, lions, bears, leopard seals, bonobo monkeys, orangutans, American bison, bats, geese, dolphi ...

If that's so, then incest, cannibalism and necrophilia are also natural since they are part of the nature. The argument that homosexuality is "natural" because some species practice it has always been extremely dumb in my opinion, if you consider that incest, cannibalism, and rape are widely practiced in nature. Does that make it "natural"? Please, if you are going to defend homosexuality and freedom, please don't spout nonsense. I even suspect that some people here are secretly against homosexuality and try to discredit it by posing as pro-gays and posting the most stupid arguments you can even think of, like that one.

Quote from gundamgundam

If that's so, then incest, cannibalism and necrophilia are also natural since they are part of the nature. The argument that homosexuality is "natural" because some species practice it has always been extremely dumb in my opinion, if you consider that incest, cannibalism, and rape are widel ...

...So what I'm getting from you is cannibalism and homosexuality can be compared because they're the same thing. I'm not "pro-gay" friend, I just didn't like hearing someone label homosexuality as "unnatural" and "against nature". Why did you have to bring up necrophilia for? Is that what we're discussing?

When it comes to nature, there's nothing unnatural in it.
If it happens in nature, then it is natural.
Shouldn't mix up biology and sociology.

Quote from gundamgundam

I even suspect that some people here are secretly against homosexuality and try to discredit it by posing as pro-gays and posting the most stupid arguments you can even think of, like that one.

🤣      

As paranoid as that sounds, even I've sometimes felt this. Not so much on the MU forums, but on some others that discuss this topic, there are people who make ridiculously superficial arguments in favour of sexual deviance in general (such as paedophilia and bestiality), so when they also speak out in favour of homosexuality / bisexuality, the common conclusion of gay = paedophile is just further confirmed.
There's nothing wrong with supporting sexual deviance in general if that's what you like, but the way most people go about it does little to increase majority opinion in their favour -- if nothing else, it simply makes things worse.

But I think the basic problem here is that people always seem to think that normal = good and abnormal = bad. But if you take the core meaning of the word, 'normal' just means something the majority of the population does, and 'abnormal' is what the minority does. There are not-very-nice abnormal things and not-so-bad abnormal things, just as there are not-very-nice normal things and good normal things. For example, I'm often called 'abnormal' by people because I'm very polite even to those who're incredibly rude to me. And while pacifism / non-aggression is indeed abnormal the way the world is today, it's not really a bad thing, is it?

But I do agree with one thing someone mentioned a couple of pages back; homosexuality and asexuality among humans must be some form of natural selection. I, for one, am asexual, and have no intention of ever having children. Doesn't that mean my genes will be wiped out of the human population? I'm fine with that, though...I mean, what does it matter to me after I die? 😛

Homosexuality doesn't make sense in a reproductive way.
Two guys or two girls cannot reproduce.

I am not okay with sexuality. I try to respect it because I watch the Glee (FOX TV) show.
If not for Glee, I would have never have respect for gay people.

If I managed to get children (a boy) and he turned out to be gay, I would force him to not be.
I will make sure he loses his virginity and enjoy the wonders of women. I will bring him to strip clubs on a weekly bases. I will pay a girl to tempt him by behaving kinky to him.

If I had a daughter who was gay, I wouldn't really care. It just means I wouldn't have to deal with her getting pregnant on a short notice. I'm 18, so I wouldn't worry about kids being gay until 5-7 years from now.

Quote from StaticHD

Homosexuality doesn't make sense in a reproductive way.
Two guys or two girls cannot reproduce.

I am not okay with sexuality. I try to respect it because I watch the Glee (FOX TV) show.
If not for Glee, I would have never have respect for gay people.

If I managed to get children (a boy) and he tur ...

What is this "glee" you speak of, is respect for someone else caused by a TV show for you?
And you are not okay with sexuality?
sexuality ~ noun

1. the properties that distinguish organisms on the basis of their reproductive roles

For the second part.... I hope you never get or need to raise children.

Forcing someone to "not be" what he/she is, only serves to make everyone miserable in the end.
But more importantly, WHY do you feel the need to enforce your own sexuality onto someone else?
I can imagine that forcing someone to not be something only leads to (silent) resentment... is that what you'd want from your own children?

I find it annoying when people ask me if I have a partner, and why not (or assume I'm gay). I'm quite sure I would pretty much break contact with people who try to forcibly hitch me up.
I'm asexual btw, which is an even smaller minority than homosexuality (though less in the spotlight).

Me no care.

If anything, I'm pro-homosexual simply because the anti-homosexual crowd is so hostile I'm actually scared to side with them.

Quote from Joentjuh

You are now confusing the act of sex and the intent of reproduction.
Spawning offspring has NOTHING to do with sexuality.
A very important point you seem to have slighted, is love.
Love has nothing to do with sex, gender, or the act of sex. (and sometimes sexuality). I hope I need not mention that ...

I'm not mixing sexuality and reproduction, i just said that it never happens in nature that two males/females make a stable partnership unless they have odd level of hormones, so "homosexuality" in nature doesn't exist, what exist is bi-sexuality, when they can't found a female they release they sexual need on other males, like dogs. Maybe we have a different understanding of what's homosexuality, so let's go by the book:
"The state of being sexually attracted primarily to persons of the same sex"

so i'm right at saying that by this definition there is no homosexuality in nature unless there is an abnormal level of hormones, since other wise animals, mostly males, would mate (have sex if you like it better) with the same sex only if they can't found a partner of the opposite sex.

edit: as i said i'm not against homosexuality, i'm asexual (attracted to neither), so i really don't care.

Note: I do think Incest, rape and cannibalism is absolutely natural as stated by the person under me.

Quote from gundamgundam

If that's so, then incest, cannibalism and necrophilia are also natural since they are part of the nature. The argument that homosexuality is "natural" because some species practice it has always been extremely dumb in my opinion, if you consider that incest, cannibalism, and rape are widel ...

yah i do think incest is totally natural. the nature have its way of preventing long term incest for generations, but thats cuz any species that do that wont live very long. but yah. incest is totally natural, it happens all the time. and there is no reason why it cant happen in human. if you think incest is wrong because it produce deformed humans then you'd have to think it's wrong to reproduce with handicapped people too.

rape is perfectly natural too. its the way that males who does not ge enough attention get its chance to show power and reproductive ability. it happened every day when we were cavemen.

cannibalism is natural only for the species that are "short lifespan and reproduce a lot and dies" such species are the most usual ones that have cannibalistic behavior. unless of course, when they r rly hungry then anything goes. homo sapies are not the species that produce a lot of offspring and die, so it'll be unusual behavior. but who knows. homo ancestors have regularly practiced cannibalism. so maybe cannibalism is more natural for us to do!

Quote from Hespia Klarerin

rape is perfectly natural too. its the way that males who does not ge enough attention get its chance to show power and reproductive ability. it happened every day when we were cavemen.

How do you know? Maybe it was the other way around for humans, maybe even "cavemen" had an extensive process of wooing.

It's a bit offtopic, but what is so weird about cannibalism?
Obviously it's a trait that only (to my knowledge) occurs in carnivores and omnivores... Not to only those with short live-spans. Even then it's mostly not without cause, eat the weak to improve the pack as a whole (or increase your own chance of survival).
In humans it's plain weird, mostly because it's simply not necessary and society "frowns" upon it... If it didn't (since before you were born) you'd look differently upon cannibalism.
Same with homosexuality really, if this were a society in which homosexuality was accepted, or even normal, there would be a lot less homophobia/hate (I believe it's not instinctual, but something learned (subconsciously))

Quote from Joentjuh

How do you know? Maybe it was the other way around for humans, maybe even "cavemen" had an extensive process of wooing.

It's a bit offtopic, but what is so weird about cannibalism?
Obviously it's a trait that only (to my knowledge) occurs in carnivores and omnivores... Not to only those w ...

There are several proofs of caveman killing and raping women, many bodies of young women had been found with clear marks of rape and contusions that were caused by old stone weapons.

In the matter of homosexuality been seen as normal, until other things replaced the mind set of "survival" and the population grow enough, homosexuality couldn't even had been tough as it is today, most men used to had sex with others in the past, such as the pederasty in Rome and the Spartans, but sooner or later they all sought to form a family with a woman.
I don't know about female homosexuality, but it probably was pretty common too.

Quote from Hespia Klarerin

incest is totally natural, it happens all the time. and there is no reason why it cant happen in human. if you think incest is wrong because it produce deformed humans then you'd have to think it's wrong to reproduce with handicapped people too.
...

excuse me? the reason why incest is frowned upon in today's world is not merely because of the consequences(handicapped children or whatever) its actually due to emotional and psychological reasons. since the day a child is born, that child is supposed to differentiate between "family" and "other people". if you were raised in a normal family, within a normal environment, there's absolutely noway you'd lust after your father/mother or sister/brother. how can you perceive the people who raised you as viable subjects of love interest?

note that im excluding relationships between cousins here. im talking about relationships between siblings or child and parent.
also note that im talking about incestrious relationships that developed under normal circumstances(im not talking about siblings that are re-united after XX years, its a bit understandable why they would be unable to view eachother as blood relations under these circumstances)

being against homosexuality because you see it as 'unnatural' has got to be one of the stupidest arguments ever:
its unnatural so its wrong- and humans ALWAYS reject unnatural things, like glasses, air conditioning, and the big mac... 🤨

if you dont like something thats fine- you have every right not to.
if the thought of two men being together disgusts you- great. thats who you are. thats your own personal and emotional response to something- in the exact same way as if a song you hate comes on the radio. -but what so many people fail to do is empathize with the other side of the spectrum. they focus so much on it being 'disgusting' or 'unnatural' that they fail to take into account emotional and pychological differences in other people; that they are people just like you- the only difference being that they are attracted to different people than you.

they arent forcing anything on you, so why have such an irrational vendetta against it. why tell people what they can or cant do in the privacy of their own homes, who they should or shouldnt be attracted to? just live and let live.

I HATE rap music- but do I go around propaganda-ing that its evil and wrong and unnatural; smacking ipods out of peoples hands, and forcing them to listen to rock music?

NO!

because i am a civilized, rational human being who respects that some people like that music -despite my own personal disgust of it- and i acknowlege that i have ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to tell them what they can or cannot listen to- and anyone who thinks they do is a hypocritical bigot of the most disgusting kind

Quote from randomreader

being against homosexuality because you see it as 'unnatural' has got to be one of the stupidest arguments ever:
its unnatural so its wrong- and humans ALWAYS reject unnatural things, like glasses, air conditioning, and the big mac... 🤨

if you dont like something thats fine- you h ...

I normally don't do this, but +1.

I honestly can't even read this topic. I click on it a million times but I read one and a half posts and I become so annoyed and enraged that I close the tab. I didn't think or even imagine that so many of the people on this site are just so... stupid. Besides the major homophobes here, I get incredibly annoyed with people posting about how they think homosexuality is wrong/unnatural/amoral but they don't think homosexuals should be bashed. It's so smug! And self righteous! As if you all are saying homosexuality is so wrong but here on my moral high ground I'll throw you a bone and feel sorry for you. Yea well f@#% you. You deserve to be locked in an empty and small room until your less bigoted.

No one gives a shit what trite garbage you write here.