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This maybe a bit off topic but I heard from an unknown source that Spartan Warriors (during the fight against the Persians) were all homosexual. That caused them to fight a lot harder than regular soldiers because they're fighting along side with their loved ones. This gives me the perspective that in the past, not everyone was against homosexuals.

lol, I heard so too. My history teacher was like: "A bunch of half naked greek dude on a boat for 5 years..with no women..what do you think is going to happen."

It's funny that's actually the exact opposite of today's military standards. They are afraid relationship among soldiers may cause hesitance on the battlefield, distraction, and too much emotional problems. The fact is, when you are with your loved ones, no matter where you are, the only thing on your mind would be the other person. 🤣 Can't fight a war with people all thinking about their loved ones now can we.

The Spartans didn't have our concepts of "homosexual" and "heterosexual". Sure, maybe some of them only liked men, or only women, but a lot of them probably were willing to sleep with either sex.

I think they prefer men 🤣
because:

1. There's men all over the place, more men available
2. No worry for babies
3. Men were valued above women in Ancient Rome and Greece. So expert believe ancient Greeks have a custom where any men entering adulthood must MUST have a sexual relation with a man first BEFORE woman. 🤣 I can imagine Ancient Greece and Rome filled with orgy and bestiality.

Gay book discussion thread

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this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

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I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

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Actually the ancient Greek practiced something common where a young underage boy would be in a physical and psychological bond with an older male. You can see it on many of their vases and bowls. By today's standard, pedophilia is still illegal, not only in religion. Though many stories would record male angels getting it on with a beautiful human male or some other male bestiality thing. Lol, naughty naughty greek pagans. 🤣

I've read about this Greek thing (Schopenhauer). Males both at the beginning and at the end of their sexual life are not appropriate for reproducing, yet having a desire. So here it goes. (no pedophilia here)

It's not that they "became homosexuals" or were strictly homosexuals at all.
The fact of the matter was that they got horny during those long wars.
They formed "partnerships" with their buddies in arms and got what they needed.
Maybe that's why they were such great warriors who could fight for years. ;p

This gives me the perspective that in the past, not everyone was against homosexuals.

Of course not.
But it depends where.
In some places, such relationships were belittled, stating that with two men, there could only be a sexual relationship, and that only between a boy and a man. Nothing else.

The monotheistic religions caused most of the hate, I believe.

Let's be honest here, Religion brought a lot of good things as well as bad things.

I honestly can't think of a single good thing that religion has bestowed upon this world.

--
There are so many stupid, nonsensical and plainly wrong & ignorant things in this topic that I'd like to comment about, like "I'm ok with homosexuals as long as they don't act feminine/masculine".
Who are you to judge?
If you don't like the person, stay away and shut up.
I don't like a lot of things, so what?
Why should you even care? What's it to you?

Another thing is the sexual identity discussion.
I pretty much agree with @uraminoakindo post (and am too sleepy to type more...).
Besides, it's a well written post.

Gonna stop now and go to bed.
Stop the hate, people.
If you believe in a god and what not and that this god "cannot be wrong", follow this notion and understand that every person is born a certain way.
So deal with it.

Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.
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If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.

@NightSwan

lol, you are so cynical. Religion makes people into slaves, duh. People are like sheep, tell them what they want to hear, give them some detail, and tell them more stories and they will start believing you. The very fabric of our social order is based on lies to trick the sheeps into obeying. And that is one positive example. It makes people follow certain code of conduct.

Second, many people do find comfort in religion after experiencing a trauma. Like people getting raped usually find God and it comforts them, just not alter boys..... 😔

Gay book discussion thread

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this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

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I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

I see homosexuals in the same way I see religious nuts.

Got no problem with them until they try to grab my balls.

-GGpX

I run Illuminati-Manga. You're welcome.

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Let's be honest here, Religion brought a lot of good things as well as bad things.

I honestly can't think of a single good thing that religion has bestowed upon this world.

Not so much 'religion' as we know it today.
When going back to the decline of Roman empire in many parts of the world (like for example Britain) it was the Irish (Celtic) Christianity that brought back much of the civilization. Those churches could be compared to community centers, they were a fountain of knowledge from across the known world and the Celtic Church could be compared to a large network with international contacts... Sadly they were systematically pushed back by the Church of Rome and things went south from there (I don't consider the control of kings and human relationships (who is allowed to marry and who not) part of the duty of any religion.)

Note that the Roman Church didn't really do anything 'new', they just practiced what there fathers before them preached. The problem was that, most prominently after the fall of the Roman Empire, they were pretty much the only standing form of religion in Europe and thus gained a monopoly... Sadly they had the power to change the world (for the better), but did not and even went so far as to go against any form of progress (hence the 'Dark' ages)...

Though remember that religion does not equal the so called 'Church' (of Rome). Religion is not bad in itself (it's how you practice it that matters), it's the money grabbing and power-hungry people that abuse the system that are bad... Sadly when looking at their history this seems to be the case most of the time. But hey, it's the same with governments, corporations and pretty much everywhere else... Human corruption has no end it seems.

Let's leave it at that shall we... All this talk about the (dark) European history is kind of depressing, what I'm more interested at is the history of homosexuality in for example Asian countries or pre-colonial America (continent).

P.S. I'm no history buff, so I only know bits and pieces of European history.

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Quote from NightSwan

Let's be honest here, Religion brought a lot of good things as well as bad things.

I honestly can't think of a single good thing that religion has bestowed upon this world.

Not so much 'religion' as we know it today.
When going back to the decline of Roman empire in many parts of the world (like for example Britain) it was the Irish (Celtic) Christianity that brought back much of the civilization. Those churches could be compared to community centers, they were a fountain of knowledge from across the known world and the Celtic Church could be compared to a large network with international contacts...

P.S. I'm no history buff, so I only know bits and pieces of European history.

Not really true. Christianity itself thrived as a tolerant religion after Jesus supposedly died. First oppressed and persecuted by pagans in Rome and Greece. Afterward, realizing Christianity is on the rise, the Roman and Greece flipped side and started persecuting Pagans and became Christians themselves. Christianity itself is, supported by many evidence, a derivative of greek and roman mythology as well as any other old world religion such as Buddhism or the Egyptian Gods. For example the image with Mary and Baby Jesus, that's already present in Egyptian paintings found. And Jesus as a savior with power to heal and ultimately persecuted, that's already present in Greek Mythology, and Satan image corresponds with Poseidon along with his Trident now known as devil's fork.

Now you have a little background: Christianity spreads available knowledge of that century but persecutes any new knowledge because they modify their religious view to include present science. That's pretty much common sense if you think about it. If you were going to make a claim about some God or holy doctrine, it better match common accepted knowledge. For example, I make a church of Smiley Face. I can't just say God Smiley made the grass grow by whispering to them every morning. No, everyone knows grass is a plant and it grows due to, well, what ever living thing do. So I may say something like: God Smiley provides the energy of the universe to make up the missing pieces since scientists know that we have more matter in the universe than anti matter, God Smiley transformed most anti matter into matter at the beginning of the universe. See? I'm spreading current knowledge while mixing religion as part of it. But if after a century someone finds contrary information on matter and anti matter, if they are in fact equal in quantity, now my story doesn't hold up. But I don't want people to know and get suspicious so I will, hypothetically, persecute and get rid of the evidence and suppress the truth.

On the other hand, Islam actually made a lot more contribution to science and technology. When the Arabs were capturing and conquering, their amount of humanity shamed the most humble christian because they never killed women and children. They also set up libraries and schools in the countries they conquered to help educate people. Their science and technology exploration matches that of the ancient Chinese and we still use Arabic number system today.

Gay book discussion thread

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this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

Quote from BoxBox

Not really true. Christianity itself thrived as a tolerant religion after Jesus supposedly died. First oppressed and persecuted by pagans in Rome and Greece. Afterward, realizing Christianity is on the rise, the Roman and Greece flipped side and started persecuting Pagans and became Christians themselves. Christianity itself is, supported by many evidence, a derivative of greek and roman mythology as well as any other old world religion such as Buddhism or the Egyptian Gods. For example the image with Mary and Baby Jesus, that's already present in Egyptian paintings found. And Jesus as a savior with power to heal and ultimately persecuted, that's already present in Greek Mythology, and Satan image corresponds with Poseidon along with his Trident now known as devil's fork.

Ah, but now you're talking about the pre (Roman) Church era of Christianity...
Anyways, we're getting a little off-topic here 😛

I believe we're on the right track to global acceptance of at the least same-sex relationships on a romantic level... Which is a good thing, how can any individual or group consider themselves tolerant if they can't even accept people (different) than themselves. I say (different) because not everyone against homosexuality is per definition straight (fear and indoctrination does weird things to people).
I don't know why so many consider gay marriage important... Marriage is simply out-dated (again, a 'Church' thing) and often does more bad than good to a relationship.
Why insist on it?... Go for something like a cohabitation agreement, much more freedom, less hassle and easier for both parties if the relationship goes south... But then again, just my opinion.

What bothers me the most is the military of most prominent countries approach (read: America). Don't ask don't tell, until word gets out and your discharged... I'm glad to live in a country where there is no discrimination between sex or sexual orientation (at least not officially, one can never know what goes on behind closed doors).

Quote from Joentjuh

Why insist on it?... Go for something like a cohabitation agreement, much more freedom, less hassle and easier for both parties if the relationship goes south... But then again, just my opinion.

I insist upon it because if my partner were to be hospitalized, I wouldn't have visitation rights; nor would I be able to make medical decision on his behalf, i.e. if he was unable to make them himself.

Oh, and simply freedom.

Wow religion is everywhere I turn. For people who don't like it they sure like talking about it. 🙄 I'm a true atheist - I don't like to talk about it period. Yet here it is again. 🤢

I don't mind it at all. I think disliking some for their sexuality (as well as their religion for that matter) is just stupid. I've learned to like people for who they are, not what they're into, even if I don't agree with it. That's how I can have uber religious friends and not get into religious fights all the time.

I have no issues with homosexuality. I don't understand the qualms people seem to have with even the notion of it. Though I am not sexually interested in women--I can objectively see the beauty in people of the same sex--I don't find homosexuality to be anything other than natural. In fact, if anyone is interested, Judith Butler's theory work brings up the idea that the true homosexuals are in fact the supposed heterosexuals, who take on the identity of the impossible and lost lover and identify with either the masculine or feminine. It's difficult to explain, but it's really interesting.

I'm happy that society as a whole is slowly becoming more accepting and GLBT movements are popping up all over the world... Yet sad that this is even necessary.
It's slow, but we're getting there: first female emancipation, than ending the apartheid, now GLBT acceptance and social equality... It's all a good thing yet sad it's necessary, too bad there are still places in the world none of the above exist.

Yeah, religion... I'm not a fan of it either, yet it's part of the system and the world around us. It's not a scapegoat nor is it the cause of every fault. It's inevitable to come up in any conversation on a subject that touches religion.
I'm not, nor are most, trying to bash religion nor am I ignoring it and I definitely don't see why I should fear it... If anyone is offended by what I'm saying, you can either politely disagree and offer constructive counter criticism or simply learn to live with the fact not everyone is the same.
Besides, bashing would be stupid and pointless, ignoring would just be self delusional and would ultimately lead to more hate. You can't get to know each other and thus rise above all the distrust without actual talking and confronting (in a good way) each other.
Problems don't go away by not talking about it, this only leads to a don't ask don't tell policy that is (I imagine) more hurtful in many ways and only breeds distrust and secrecy.

I'd rather be open about it, yet be with the person I love and shunned by society; than being a liar and 'liked' for someone I'm not.... Of course, I am aware not everyone has this freedom and being open about it could cost your living or worse, your life.... Which is sad in this day and age...

I disagree with what you guys say about religion.

because if Christianity was the reason why gay people aren't accepted into society, then Japan, china, and all those eastern buddhism/hindi countries should be heaven for the GLBT people.

well. that's certainly no true.
People in United States have much more gay people expressing themselves and their right than Japan. From what i hear, japan's homosexual society is very secretive, and coming out is suicide. they have less than 1% of christian. same goes with china, burma...and on.

it's not religion. it's just society in general. GLBT is not accepted because it's not a norm. not that complicated.

oh. and i really don't care what people do in their bedroom. so i think fussing about homo are all pretty stupid.
but when they start adding the rest of society into their gay society then i have problem. like the same sex adoption. i mean. if the kid's a stepson or a relative then it's most natural thing to do. but to be adopted by the complete stranger gay couple as a kid....no matter how hard the couples try, the kid will not get the normal mother-and father relationship, and the kid may go though sexual confusion. (assuming that majority of the adopted kids are straight). they'll be thrown into a less-than perfect family. it's like living with a single parents. the kid don't have a choice. sure. things happen in life and your life isn't always perfect, but someone'll make the decision of "kid A will go to normal family and kid B go to gay family, i know kid B will grow up in a socially imbalanced environment than kid A, but we can't afford to have that much foster home space"

I love homosexuality. That is why I only ride in the back with my girlfriends.

The other day, I saw a film about lesbians.
It was very... heart warming and informative.