Quote from Mamsmilk

Wouldn't still say NTR as a genre is all that realistic.
Over writing brain just by sticking a
dick in it doesn't seem likely.

+1

[img]http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/azrinirza/makotoshinkai1_zpse3901c5a.gif[/img]
Everyday I'm tumblin'

Unfortunately NTR is real but in manga it is quite exaggerated. Its not that common now but in the past it was very commmon. Possibly very rampant in the 70s because that when the criminal underworld thrived. Today you can get in a whole lot of legal and criminal trouble if you are the one commiting the seducing away which is most commonly through blackmail. Its highly possible that the polygamist sect that was raided a few years ago had alot of NTR like relationships. Because over the years alot of boys were kicked out of their polygamist sect towns and were forced to live on their own.

Netorare?

no need to worry, the main heroine Emiru has never slept with anyone and is still a virgin. There are 3 cases i can remember when other male characters wanted to f*ck Emiru

The worst thing that happened to Emiru is attempted rape, the rapist did it rather extreme but with this kind of manga, and the personality of Emiru it's not really something depressing. the attempted rape was extreme though

he sucked her tits alot, took off her underwear and touched her a few seconds down there.

well there's also that one time when emiru is 90% naked in her bed with another guy who liked her, and she's willing to get touched, but not allowed to have sex.

so, when that guy got horny, he tried to take off emiru's panties and when he is about to put it in, bam! a slap on his face. Then he fled the scene with a guilty conscience. Reason for emiru seducing that guy: you have to read.

the funniest one was

when some guy discovered the hole, he was peeping to emiru while she is masturbating, the next time he peeped, emiru was masturbating on purpose for setting up something. the guy got aroused and wanted to come over, then something happened to that guy and it ends there.

im only at vol9 atm so thats all i can tell

For me this is not Netorare in Nozoki Ana. The term describes "lover stolen from you" due to sexual superiority of the other guy or emotional attachment from the girl to the other guy, as someone already pointed out. First off, like many already said, she was first with the other guy to begin with, her reason for getting together with Kido, at least at the beginning, was to make the other guy jealous. Second, she was never stolen, she pretty much cheated all the time without any guilt what actually makes it even more disturbing for me since it is way more realistic as the Netorare genre in which most examples are about the girl getting forced and ending up liking it afterwards and getting addicted to it (this does not only apply to Hentai, "normal" manga unfortunately use that genre like that, too). Besides, she was never sexually depraved while being together with Kido and she also was emotionally attached to him, too (she begs him to stay together).

Normally, Netorare in manga never fazes me since it is pretty unrealistic most of the time. Yuri cheating all the time though really hurt.

Women can cheat you any time. That's real life. Netorare is one of the most realistic genres ever created. It's so realistic that makes you sick and enraged, but that's what happen to many.

Nah that's not real life. There's bazillion of reasons that would screw up a relationship: financial situation, job, getting tired of each other, not getting along with each other's family, etc... Despite common belief, love doesn't conquer a lot of thing.

Now if a couple break up because the guy refuses to convert to roman catholic to the wish of the girl's family, that'd would be realistic. Losing your girlfriend to a rapist who gives her squirting orgasm that you had never achieved, with just his pinky, not so much.

Heck in the latter case, I would probably offer to buy the rapist a drink to learn the secret of the orgasmic pinky, and fulfill my desire of sleeping with different girls every night.

My list (rated by addictiveness, not necessarily quality)
Reading
Complete

I just saw a defintion of NTR. It says it is when a person is taken away from the person they love in a sexual manner. If this is an accurate definition then this rules out Nozoku Ana but defines all of clear cut NTR manga.

I saw this definition in a manga I read a few days ago that was describing what NTR is.

Are you fucking kidding me? Did I, or did I NOT already have this conversation with you via PM's? Are you seriously bringing this dumbass shit up again?

Nozoki Ana contains NTR.

The fucking end.

Is it IN-FUCKING-SANELY persuasive, fat-ass, ugly dude with a FUCKING MASSIVE, GRAVITY-BENDING, LOGIC-DEFYING COCK NTR??

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO~

BUT!

BUT!

Is it.... EVEN BY YOUR OWN, newfound, GLORY-TO-THE-INTERNET-THAT-CAN-TELL-NO-LIES definition of NTR, a situation where someone loved was taken away in a sexual manner? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?

WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU EVEN TRYING TO SAY?!

Quote from RS456

Meaing the protagonist basically lost his/her loved one for good. Even if the loved one by some miracle returns everything won't return to the way it once was because one or the other is psychologically scarred due to this. It also stated that NTR creates an anger and anguish among the readers.

Quote from badkarma

Did Kido NOT lose Yuri for good? Did Yuri NOT try to fix what was irreparably broken? Was Kido NOT psychologically scarred? (Kido quote: "The wound from my lost love is opening up.. That's why I'm longing for another person." And for fuck's sake, he even refers to his next sexual encounter as "healing sex" - of course, that's more about the "hole".) Did it NOT cause anger and anguish among the readers? (You and I aren't "everyone". Particularly under the context of answering a question about how NTR plays in a purely subjective application, and as readers, we get over it because we yern for Kido X Emiru. Or whatever. In any event, any fool saw that Yuri X Kido wasn't a final pairing, so when the author finally burned that bridge, I mostly felt relief. I also understand that I'm not everyone.) What are we even doing here?

Quote from badfuckingkarma

-NTR isn't the focus of Nozoki Ana, so it's downplayed. Doesn't mean it's not there or isn't being played with when looking at the Yuri relationship or the underlaying progression of the Madoka X Kido X Emiru relationship.

DEEEEEEEEEheheheeheheheheheheheheheh!!!!!!!!

Please, think really, REALLY hard about your next post. I will NOT be so forgiving next time. I won't.

Actually there was no proper definition before with almost all vague definitions. Proper defintion was in there somewhere but it was overshadowed by the other definitions. Reread the defintion;

NTR is when a person is taken away from the person they love in a sexual manner.

Yuri was two timing from the beginning. She wasn't taken away from Kido in a sexual way. She already had that relationship before Kido. Kido was her second relationship without breaking up with her first. Kido was tricked and used by her alone for her sexual satisfaction. Her boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

There is a chance it might become NTR with his 2nd girlfriend though but from the looks of it he doesn't love her as much as he thought anymore and moving towards getting Emiru back. We still don't know if Kido's delusions are really what is happening with his 2nd girlfriend now or not.

Quote from badkarma

Please, think really, REALLY hard about your next post. I will NOT be so forgiving next time. I won't.

You didn't.

You didn't.

You didn't.

YOu DidN't.

You DIDn't.

YoU diDN't.

you DIDN't.

You DIDN'T.

U didn'T.

You DiDn'T.

you didn't

yousid'nt.

yOU didN't.

YouSISn't .

You DIDN't.

Quote from badkarma

You didn't.

YOU DIDN'T.

You didnT.

Youdidn't.

W-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-w-why didn't you thinK abouT YouR neXt Post??

Dude, it's FOUR-FREAKING-THIRTY in the morning over here, and you gotta lay this shit on me?? I DO NOT CARE WHAT RULES I'M OBVIOUSLY BREAKING AT THIS POINT: YOU ARE NOT SMART. YOU ARE DUMB. VERY, VERY DUMB. MY CAPS ARE LOCKED BECAUSE YOU ARE SO DUMB.

LOCKED, I SAY.

click

Unlocked. And sorry.

Che...

Quote from RS456

Actually there was no proper definition before with almost all vague definitions. Proper defintion was in there somewhere but it was overshadowed by the other definitions.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.... DIDN'T I SAY THAT, THAT WAS THE POINT OF MY POST?? I explained this. I did. I swear I did. I did. Re-read it, please?

Quote from RS456

Did you realize you just condradicted yourself regarding NTR. All defintions you pointed out generally said the loved one of the protagonist is seduced away wether willingly or unwillingly. Meaing the protagonist basically lost his/her loved one for good. Even if the loved one by some miracle returns everything won't return to the way it once was because one or the other is psychologically scarred due to this. It also stated that NTR creates an anger and anguish among the readers. This is not the case with Nozoki Ana and several other manga.

Quote from badkarma

Yes. I'm aware.

That was the point. There are many definitions, and not all of them discredited what I said. Some agreed, some didn't. In fact, the TV tropes definition I posted even lists Nozoki Ana in the 'Anime and Manga' section.

THAT WAS THE POINT.

Netorare is subjective. Rather, it's become subjective. I mean, look, I know I speak in riddles, but please try to read my sub-text a little better.

So WHAT makes you think that this MAGICAL, NEWFOUND definition you've un-earthed from the omnipotent and honest interwebs is the next testament to the SECOND COMING of CHRIST??

Hmmmm? Oh this?

Quote from RS456

Yuri was two timing from the beginning. She wasn't taken away from Kido in a sexual way. She already had that relationship before Kido. Kido was her second relationship without breaking up with her first. Kido was tricked and used by her alone for her sexual satisfaction. Her boyfriend had nothing to do with it.

FUCKING, COME ON! Dude, rule one in NTR: the loser is YOU. Kido is you. You lost Yuri. You lost her to a dude you've never seen before GORILLA FUCKING HER FACE IN A KARAOKE BOOTH. Granted, "we", the reader, don't care too much because "we" never once thought Yuri X Kido was a final pairing, but the NTRness is THERE.

Maybe, as I said, it's not full-blown "my childhood-friend-turned-girlfriend was stolen by my fat. 70-year-old, EXTREMELY well-endowed teacher NTR", but certainly, there is NO REASON to raise a shit-storm about how it's NOT NTR unless you're an elitist definition-Gestapo clown looking to... I dunno, validate your e-peen? Look important? I sure as shit know this conversation ain't gonna solve world hunger, so what's the goal here?

There isn't one.

If someone wants to tag this manga as NTR - even with the full knowledge that it doesn't fully conform to a text-book definition (to which it actually does, but believe it or not, I'm STILL trying to meet you half-way) - I will NOT disagree with the tag. There's NO SOLID reason to do so given the collective user's tolarance and definition of such things.

Quote from badkarma

But in THIS case, I think you're splitting hairs. Like I said, this ain't no "black and white" NTR, but to deny that all the makings of NTR are flagrantly being presented to induce the feeling, is just plain being ignorant. To which you don't deny. You even point them out.

WHICH BOGGLES MY MIND as to how you can deny this as NTR.

Oh right. It doesn't 100% conform to the text-book definition. Silly me.

Let's ignore that Kido IS emotionally broken afterwards. All the way to the point that he majorly let his guard down and sought comfort in the arms of "the enemy".

Let's ignore the jealous words in Kido's "revenge fuck". MINE! MINE! MINE!

Or the fact that the "weekend boyfriend" is essentially a "WHO'S THAT!?" character in Kido's eyes.

Or his explosive reaction to the discovery.

Or the metaphor played with the "broken music-box".

Or Kido's sleepless Saturday.

Or the general reader's reaction. (Maybe not you or me, but I saw the revelation in the casual reader's reaction when the chapters were released in English. I didn't quite feel the same way, but as a genre savvy individual, I'll nod my head.)

Or the weekend boyfriends NTR fetish, and how it plays with Yuri's fluctuating feelings.

Or a bunch of other crap I'm too lazy to type out.

...

And let's ignore it because Yuri wasn't "stolen" or "seduced" by a person when viewing it cynically from the outside. And I'll be nice and not point out the ENORMOUS logical fallacy when defining something using the terms "willing" and "seduce" in conjunction to each other, since I know what you're trying to say.

Great.

I hear scholars are in flux about calling the Holocaust "genocide" too. Let's not be stupid.

Quote from badkarma

Let's not be stupid.

Please?

Irrelevant to this thread. This is not chatter box.

All I did was state a clear cut defintion of NTR which I happen to read a few days ago in a manga which was about manga. To be honest I would trust this definition more than alot of fan derived defintions. As of now (upto the latest translated chapter) this clearly rules out Nozoki Ana but it still clearly defines an actual NTR manga.

Quote from RS456

All I did was state a clear cut definition of NTR which I happen to read a few days ago in a manga which was about manga.

You did. That's the problem. That's the point you're missing. That's the point you've been missing. This is the point I've been trying to make that you either ignore, misinterpret, or misunderstand.

THERE IS NO CLEAR-CUT DEFINITION TO NTR. This is what I've been attempting to say from the start.

Nozoki Ana is NOT an "NTR manga", or rather, NTR is NOT the focus, here.

Nozoki Ana DOES, however, play with the NTR trope.

Denying this is RIDICULOUS and IGNORANT.

If anyone wants to put an NTR tag on Nozoki Ana, I'll agree. No, it's not "textbook", but it's there. No doubt. No take-backs. I'll engrave my opinion in stone.

Quote from Mamsmilk

Irrelevant to this thread. This is not chatter box.

I highly respect you, however, this is the first time I ever questioned your understanding of English. (Yeah, I know it's not your first language, but this is the first time I seriously questioned your understanding.)

Quote from Badkarma

You did. That's the problem. That's the point your missing. That's the point you've been missing. This is the point I've been trying to make that you either ignore, misinterpret, or misunderstand.

No I did not misunderstand anything. This is a defintion of NTR from a manga which was about manga. NOT MY OPINION! Unlike my earlier posts months ago.

Quote from Badkarma

Nozoki Ana is NOT an "NTR manga", or rather, NTR is NOT the focus, here.

Nozoki Ana DOES, however, play with the NTR trope.

Denying this is RIDICULOUS and IGNORANT.

You are ignoring one part of every NTR definition out there. The part about being seduced away. Nozoki Ana does not get there. Was only on the verge of getting there once or twice throughout the entire manga upto to the latest chapter.

If this doesn't get through to you nothing will. This is a hopeless.

And you're still ignoring that I fully acknowledge your definition.

Plus, no, your wrong. "IT'S" not a part of "EVERYONES" definition, since APPARENTLY, this topic was made for a reason, and that this is even a topic to begin with, COMPLETELY discredits that your "THIS IS NTR, THIS IS NOT" mindset is "correct".. Like I've been saying all along, there are different sub-types of NTR, and the 48+, to 9- 'Netorare" tag rating on this manga is quite a strong indication of my belief.

Understand?

Tell me. Yes or no. Was Kido a cuckhoid?

Yes.

Yes.

Oh fucking God, yes.

Was Yuri "seduced" away?

Hmmmmm...

Maybe not? But, mephtophricaly.... yes? She DID try to repair her broken relationship with Kido, but it didn't work... and keeping that in mind, she never really STOPPED her weekend boytoy visits, even when pressured, so maybe she WAS seduced by him? Particularly given her fluctuating feelings of love/lust between the two men?

...

You make me sad. I've already said this, and it may be a little late to reiterate, but I will no longer respond to you, as "only little kids try to push their point back and fourth. I'm not a little kid, and I think my point still stands, therefore, I'll bank on people seeing the truth, and not respond."

Netorare is one of the dumbest ideas for a "genre" ever.
Also can cheating be called that if everyone does it in the story ?
"Horrible people abuse each other" sounds better to me as a description but that is just me.

I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
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