melon-ramune-freak, good job for trying to keep to the humane choices, but animal products are detrimental to our health, check out Skinny Bitch and Forks over Knives, great vegan books which have a huge amount of information.

Humans don't have to have meat to survive, we don't need it.

It doesn't matter how they are being killed, they are being killed even though it is unnecessary to our survival.
Fish and shrimp are suffocated, that is very cruel.

But there are nutrients that we need that can only be found in animal derived products, such as vitamin B12. You can take supplements for that, but it's not as good as the naturally obtained. Yes they can be detrimental to your health, but just as much as eating plants. With all the pesticides and other chemicals floating around, eating plants is just as harmful as eating animal products. [Unless you grow your own vegetables, then I can't complain... A lot of vegans I know do grow their own food and/or buy from local organic farms that prohibit the use of any chemicals in their products.] But as long as people eat "harmful products" [both plant and animal] in moderation, then it should be okay. If it isn't okay, large organizations such as the FDA wouldn't allow these products on the market. I have personally done or helped lab tests and research on many common plant and animal products [such as rice and chicken] and have personally deemed both products as acceptable for eating. It's just that plants have less fatty content than animal products, so it's a bit healthier for people to eat plants than animal derived products. Have you heard of the lady who was sent to the hospital because she ate too much bokchoy? Or have you hear of those stories where people get stomach problems from indulging in too much meat? Both ways you can harm yourself if you eat too much. In moderation, both can be good.

Yes I agree we don't 100% need it, but why shouldn't we? There are other omnivorous animals that don't need to eat meat but they still do anyway, like ravens or crows. Humans are also categorized as animals, so why should humans restrain themselves like this when other members of the animal kingdom do the same thing? Yes fish and shrimp are suffocated, but it's not a painful death. If someone's gonna eat an animal, they have to kill it in one way or another. In my opinion, suffocating the animal is less painful than being, say, bled to death.

But I thank you for explaining your ideas in a civilized way. I have spoken to many other people who share the same viewpoints as you and they were overly emotional about it. I understand your feelings on the animals, but there are other ways to get around the problem.

I'm a vegetarian and I've never seen these threads do anything more than stir up flaming and hate from both sides. It makes me sad to be human. No wait, I'm an eldrich deity and eat minds, sorry I forget sometimes.

Quote from Cthylla

I'm a vegetarian and I've never seen these threads do anything more than stir up flaming and hate from both sides. It makes me sad to be human. No wait, I'm an eldrich deity and eat minds, sorry I forget sometimes.

Oh... wow. 🤣

As said by watnot plants had lives too, the only way to eat something and kill nothing would be to eat fruits or parts of a plant, but that's certainly not healthy and we miss the point since we don't "help the the seed come back to earth". To live we need the lives of other things that's how it works, just because they can't say a thing, or run it doesn't mean they aren't alive.

I use every thing of what i eat, bones (fish bones are delicious and have a lot of Ca and Ph), skin and seeds, i even eat the eggshell from time to time, it had even more Calcium that fish bones. That's a much healthier way of helping, in my opinion at least.

And just for a side note, hunting down your food is much better too and raw meat is tasty.

Can anyone tell me a good reason why it would be morally right to eat meat?

I have this question from a book and i really would like to hear what you say about it.

I can't be bothered getting into a philosophical debate, I'm sixteen years old and is is one in the morning were I live. I simply want to spread the word of a choice that I made that made me feel mentally and physically good. Being vegan isn't totally unrealistic and there are plenty of vegan celebrities if you want to look it up.

Humans need to restrain themselves because eating meat is killing the environment around us. Because plants take up so little room and water to grow, if every human were to go vegan, there would be allot less starving children in the world, I can't remember the exact statistics, sorry.

As to vitamin B12, the reason why that is only found in meat is because it exists naturally in the ground and we wash our fruit and vegetables too much these days. Animals have this inside them because they eat plant roots dirt and all. A home grown veggie patch is an easy, healthy remedy for this and a bigger bonus is that you control what chemicals go on it. As to the rest of every single argument put against me, read Forks Over Knives and Skinny Bitch, I'm sure they will be in a library near you or easy to read online and Gary Yourofsky's lectures are very informative.

The reason why so many vegans and vegetarians get so emotional is because once you have seen what is going on in the slaughter houses and other places were animals are mistreated, there is no way it cannot upset you. I remember nearing tears when my friend told me that being vegan was illogical. This easter every single easter egg made shivers go down my spine and if I were to eat even just some egg or dairy I would probably throw up. That is the extent of my feelings on this subject. The reasons why I am so polite and seem so very collected and controlled is because I am reviewing these over and over again so not to frighten everyone away. Sorry if the level has degraded, it is getting rather late and I'm sleepy.
If you do want to ask me anything, just email me and I will happily reply as quickly as possible.

We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james

If you really want ethics and morals...

Categoricalist: Meat is food, it is right to eat food. So why shouldn't we eat it if it is food?
Consequentialist: We get nutrients we can't easily get from anywhere else from eating meat, so as a result we benefit from it. Ends justify the means.
Egosim: I benefit from killing the animals and eating the meat. I am doing this to benefit myself, therefore it is moral.

And you can go on. Though, I don't know how you're supposed to support the positive moral benefits using Utilitarian or Kantian ethics...

But yeah, eating meat is more of a selfish personal gain, but you can't really justify it as completely wrong. I can also argue using the same ethics view points for how eating animals is bad.

It's very sad when someone just ignore a comment with a lot of sense and just try to push their belief along (of-course i'm not talking about my post but Melon one)
I'm sorry Rat but it feels as you are just trying to dodge the bullet by making excuses and going back to square one.

Schneefloeckchen, since morals come from within people beliefs and the same thing might be terrible or perfectly normal depending of the time period (been a good example pederasty in ancient Greece) the mere fact that it is normal and not only for us but in nature make it "moral", in other words it might not be the reason but still it is "morally right" since it's "normal".
For another more related example, when food was a problem (and i'm not trying to said that it isn't now, but that is easier to get for the middle man) no one ever tough of been vegetarian.

Quote from RattixEmpire

I can't be bothered getting into a philosophical debate, I'm sixteen years old and is is one in the morning were I live. I simply want to spread the word of a choice that I made that made me feel mentally and physically good. Being vegan isn't totally unrealistic and there are plenty of vegan celebr ...

I am also 16 and I have been a pescitarian for 2 years. It's not philosophical, it's practical. I understand being vegan is realistic, but some of your reasons are a bit extreme. If you say that plants are better to eat because they're cheaper and take less room and nutrients to grow, then why shouldn't we all eat insects? Insects are cheap, easy for take care of, cheap to maintain, abundant, require little space, and can solve the world hunger issue much faster and more efficiently than using plants. Why don't we solely eat insects? It's because of personal, emotional issues. Likewise, many people have an emotional reaction to both eating animal products and animals as well as not eating animal and animal products.

Yes B12 is found in the ground, but people can't go outside and eat dirt. People can't process dirt, but they can process meat. Yes we do wash our vegetables today, but washing can't get rid of all that injurious stuff off of it. I'm pretty sure you haven't heard about it yet, but Mr. Yourofsky isn't the perfect guy you're thinking of. A quick google would tell you the side of him he isn't telling you through his lectures. [I don't want to get into the details of his actions and beliefs here.] No offense, but I think you should take a look at both sides of the argument and decide for yourself what you think is better. Don't focus on one aspect of the argument and be swayed by it. There are benefits to eating animals and animal derived products and I think you should look at those first before making an absolute decision.

As for emailing or messaging you, I don't think it's necessary. Both sides of the argument has made their stance clear that neither of us would budge our beliefs. If you want to go over this in pm or email, I'm alright with that but I don't think it's necessary.

Of course it is not completely wrong and i understadn what you want to say.

The point is, that for most people food is not a problem. Just because eating meat is completely fine if you really need it, it is not if you can live without problems eating no meat. I do not think you can say it is morally right just because most people do it.
Just a few people, at least where i am from, would go and kill a pig or a cow, because they think it is cruel. People just see the already packed meat in their supermarket and not the animal behind it, wich is why they think it is okay. If you cannot idetify the animal behind it you do not have to feel guilty.

Quote from Schneefloeckchen

Of course it is not completely wrong and i understadn what you want to say.

The point is, that for most people food is not a problem. Just because eating meat is completely fine if you really need it, it is not if you can live without problems eating no meat. I do not think you can say it is morall ...

actually you can. Since i'm not saying it's right by saying it's moral, as i said morality derives from culture and culture change, depending on what's seen as "normal" at that point time morals are made. If you lived in USA around the 20´ you would had tough it's normal to cover a black person of hot tar and feathers, as terrible and disgusting that sounds now.

Also, this thread started as, "The question is not why i'm a Veg but rather why you aren't". My answer is simple, i don't see it as right not to use what i can get to keep my self and my family alive and in good health and also that in my opinion using all of the animal and the plant is more nature friendly (it might not be right for you, but that's what i believe)

When someone tells me they've gone vegan/vegetarian because a) they don't trust where their meat is coming from and what preservatives, etc., are being put into it or b) they want to help the world by essentially boycotting meat production by not buying it and hoping to lower pollution or something along those lines, I can kind of understand your motives.
But if you're trying to convince me to become a vegan simply because it's mean to kill animals, then I retort with a resounding eyeroll and a massive facepalm.

Where would you be if your troglodyte ancestors suddenly said: "Hey, let's not follow the herd this year. Let's sustain ourselves off of the grass we don't know how to cultivate!"
None of us would be here, let alone you.
What about our teeth? Our incisors and canines? Are they good for grinding? And what about the proteins we need from meat that help us synthesize amino acids? And what about mushrooms--they're more closely related to animals than they are to plants, so is that fungal cruelty? How could you eat mushrooms! And why are plants shunned anyway? How do you know that little pea-plant doesn't feel pain?

There are a lot of bigger problems in the world especially in regards to food; there's a lot of waste, overbreeding, overfishing, and pollution. But it's thanks to that that you're here today. The system needs an overhaul, but sitting on your high horse and thinking you're morally above everyone else isn't going to fix anything, it just makes you look like an idiot.

Bizarrely, I feel like eating some meat now.

Go to work, send your kids to school;
Follow fashion, act normal;
Walk on the pavement, watch T.V.;
Save for retirement, obey the law.
Repeat after me: I am free.

I help this world to become a better place by eating other humans 😀

"Es ist nicht unsere Aufgabe, einander näher zu kommen, so wenig wie Sonne und Mond zueinander kommen oder Meer und Land....Unser Ziel ist, einander zu erkennen und einer im anderen das zu sehen und ehren zu lernen, was er ist: des andern Gegenstück und Ergänzung." (Hermman Hesse)

What about our teeth? Our incisors and canines? Are they good for grinding? And what about the proteins we need from meat that help us synthesize amino acids? And what about mushrooms--they're more closely related to animals than they are to plants, so is that fungal cruelty? How could you eat mushrooms! And why are plants shunned anyway? How do you know that little pea-plant doesn't feel pain?

I don't know it does not feel pain, but that is not what i am saying. I don't eat meat because i think taking a life from something that can make its own decisions and feel pain is plain false. Be it animal or human, to me there is no difference in living. that is just my own opinion.
of course humans are more important than animals and don't even have anything against people who eat meat. i am even working with it. what i don't understand are people who say animals are meant to be eaten by humans.
all i wanted to say is that the people of the modern western society eat too much meat. if you want to say that humans are made to eat meat, that may be right. but not in the amound that is normal today. the body just does not need it.
i do not think i am morally above anyone else. i just have my opinion about it and if i can i say it.

I did not meant to offend someone or criticise their way of living. i just hope that people start to think abou it and come to their own conclusions, because i don't think al lot of people actually do this.

Quote from Schneefloeckchen

I don't know it does not feel pain, but that is not what i am saying. I don't eat meat because i think taking a life from something that can make its own decisions and feel pain is plain false. Be it animal or human, to me there is no difference in living. that is just my own opinion.
of course humans are more important than animals and don't even have anything against people who eat meat. i am even working with it. what i don't understand are people who say animals are meant to be eaten by humans.
all i wanted to say is that the people of the modern western society eat too much meat. if you want to say that humans are made to eat meat, that may be right. but not in the amound that is normal today. the body just does not need it.
i do not think i am morally above anyone else. i just have my opinion about it and if i can i say it.

If you make public your opinion you should expect others to express theirs in return.
I don't understand the superiority of the brain. Why should having a brain or not having a brain save you from being eaten? Do you know how long plants and their relatives have been surviving for? A lot longer than animals with a brain have been around, that's for sure. In fact, a lot of plants have longer lineages than living animals do. And echinoderms don't have brains, but they're still "animals"--what does a pro-brain vegan like yourself do with them?
Modern Western society does have the problem of overconsumption, this is true--but more in the case of waste and obesity.
Anyway, I have nothing more to say. I'm sure my stance is clear by now.

Go to work, send your kids to school;
Follow fashion, act normal;
Walk on the pavement, watch T.V.;
Save for retirement, obey the law.
Repeat after me: I am free.

It's really funny how we try to difference our selves from animals or other living forms, but at the same time the "humans are animals" thing come to light from time to time, used in quite an Hippocratic way, to think that just because something is natural it's right is stupid, there is no perfection, there is no balance, if we ever found something similar to that is just because the life forms come to a stalemate and start coexisting because of need but that doesn't mean that animals are nicer than us, if one kind of fish found it self comfortable in his niche they would overpower other spices and make them go extinct, some plants exist sucking life from other and can ruin a whole forest if given the chance. In the same way, but to a much larger scale we overpower all the other animals and end up changing everything of "our" planet that might be annoying or could make our life harder, that's natural too.

Is not pretty, but that is the kind of word we live in, the perfect universe the Greeks tough of was soon proven to be fake, in the same light, we could say that the perfect "natural word" we often found our self thinking of is just our narcissist self trying to difference our selves from animals. Since the original tough of them been there for us come to an end with Darwin the next best thing is to call that perfection and difference us from them by our mistakes.

🤣 🤣 🤣

Hilarious.