When I read the examples that tartufo lists (she did a couple of recent posts mentioning some), then I conclude that all male friends are subconsciously lusting for each other. What say you? o_o (This can also be brought into extension towards all female friends.)

Honestly, it's not for me. I don't get "kicks" out of it or something. I just enjoy the manga as it is, there are only a few manga where the subtext lusting is actually justified, since it's intentional, (see BL mangaka going Shounen route).

To most, two bishies/bishoujos > one. But to me, it's the reverse. 😳 I like focusing my attention on one person. D: Maybe that's why I'm just not for it. I'd rather squeal over this one awesome character instead of fantasizing about them doing it with their friend.

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Well, I'm not interested in in yaoi manga, but I like some with a shonen-ai subtext. However, I don't look for a subtext which is obviously not there - in shounen sport manga, for example. I don't understand people who fantasize about characters when there's nothing between them. And that's the reason why I don't read doujinshi.
So, I think subtext is acceptable, but only when it's apparent ('apparent subtext' sounds strange, but I hope you know what I mean) and intended by the author, and not when it's only imagined by a reader.

Concerning doujinshi, some of them are disgusting. I was shocked when I saw how many FMA RoyxEd doujinshis there are. Come on, there's no romantic relationship between them! I guess my imagination is not that wild o_O

I don't think that subtext is even needed to make djs. It's just whatever they want to create. 🤣

I've had my moments, but I'm not that obsess. I don't necessarily look for them either. For some reason though, I really don't enjoy it when it's intentional because it just irritates me. I read one that I wish I can remember. Like a BL mangaka changing genres/demographic - they should just stick with what they are originally doing if they can't create anything without throwing hints of BL in it.

I wish I can elaborate, but I've got nothing.

Ya know Doc, there are fudanshi, too. 🙂

To be honest, I'm not really into the slashing and subtext stuff, since well, it's just frustrating.
If I want two people to be together and they don't it's upsetting.

I don't think I read that many titles that call for it, either.
My wish list is probably filled with them though. 🤣

Quote from MasamiAkane

I don't think that subtext is even needed to make djs. It's just whatever they want to create. 🤣

Indeed it isn't.
I see all those Kakashi x Iruka djs and think "was I missing something"

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If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.

I like finding subtext and pairing characters together in my mind and stuff. I think it adds to the series in a way and makes me enjoy it more. Like it's a whole other level to explore.
Doesn't mean I just go crazy doing that or anything though. If it doesn't make sense in some way, then I won't ship it.

I don't notice until it's too late. Heck, I didn't even notice Yami no Matsuei was shounen-ai until my dad pointed it out when I watched the anime a few years back. Awkward...

Interesting question. But, I think the answer would vary according to the person who replies. Some people seem to think that if two people are trying to kill each other, then they're secretly longing for each other. Others think that there cannot be friendship (whether between people of the same gender or opposite genders), without some element of lust. Those are just the kinds of things they resonate to in real life (or at least wish they did), I suppose. 😃
There are also those who see subtext all over the place for no reason in particular (people who write/read doujinshi, for example). No offense, but I, personally, hate that. It's a shame that no one seems to think you can be friends without some secret element of romance on your mind. 🙁

In my opinion, subtext is something the author has to put in. If it was intentional, you can see it pretty early on in the story. Most of Yuki Kaori's stuff have some implications that she obviously planned herself (but that shouldn't stop anyone from reading her works, 'cause most of them are very dark and interesting). Another good example is Ilegenes. The author is the same as that of Mirage of Blaze (which is rumored to have very intense shounen-ai/yaoi), so the subtext between the main character and his best friend is clearly intended.

You shouldn't think something has subtext just because people say it does. For example, I read Switch, and even though everyone says it's shounen-ai, I really don't think so. In my opinion, there is nothing to prove that. Same goes for Di(e)ce. Who can prove that Kazuki and Haruki are anything more than really good friends?

It's ridiculous for people to see subtext in shounen/ sports/ seinen manga. (Prince of Tennis, Naruto, Berserk and so forth) They are aimed towards heterosexual males, so I really doubt there would be subtext between guys in them! 🤨

YEAAAAAHHHH, SUBTEXT! <3 <3 <3

Awesome post, Dr. Love! Your posts are always awesome anyways, but this one asks a question very dear to my heart, so it's ultra-awesome. 😀

I'll be honest that I am not at all interested in subtext when it comes to friends IRL. I mean, that would just be... I don't know, weird somehow, I mean I don't even think of straight subtext between my friends. They are what they are; they do what they do; some are straight, some are gay, some I don't know about; it doesn't matter either way. They're my buddies, and I can't "fictionalize" them, nor do I want to...

BUT! I love love love subtext between people who are famous (and obviously not my friends, none of my friends are famous lol). I know, I know, total hypocrisy. 😛 Basically, I think public figures kind of become part of the public discourse and volunteer themselves as part of the public imagination, so I think it's okay to fantasize about them (within reason!) even though it's not okay to fantasize about ordinary neighbors/friends/acquaintances.

Which means - if I watch a Federer/Nadal tennis match, and I'm watching the sweat sluice off their gorgeous biceps and glisten in their delectable collar-bones, part of my fevered brain is fervently imagining them engaging in even more sweat-inducing locker-room antics with each other. Because that is just HOT. You know? Well, it is to me. 🤣

... I'm so damn inconsistent and hypocritical. Maybe the only reason I don't subtextify my friends is because they're just not hot enough, but most famous people are. Lol! Sorry, friends. No, really. Sorry. @_@;

And of course, I adore fictional subtext madly - basically subtext between fictional characters. That is the subtext I enjoy the MOST, because there is no guilt (either conscious or subconscious) involved in fantasizing about people that are not real. Therefore the joy is unabated and insanely intense. I don't know why I can get high on subtext, but I just do. God help me...!

It's ridiculous for people to see subtext in shounen/ sports/ seinen manga. (Prince of Tennis, Naruto, Berserk and so forth) They are aimed towards heterosexual males, so I really doubt there would be subtext between guys in them! 🤨

I dunno. The Zabuza/Haku relationship in Naruto struck me as intentionally subtext-y. To me, there are three kinds of subtext:

1. It's the missing piece of the puzzle that makes you go, "Eureka! Now everything makes sense!" (E.g., Ichi the Killer, which I think is intentional given similar themes in the author's other works.)
2. It's a reasonable interpretation that can compete with other reasonable interpretations. (E.g., the Mel Gibson Hamlet film showing Oedipal vibes between Hamlet and his mother. Seriously, modern adaptations of classic stories use subtext all the time to give a fresh take on the source material.)
3. It's ridiculous because it's obviously out-of-character and inconsistent with evidence from the source material. (Most djs fall under this category and give slashers a bad name.)

Subtext doesn't have to appeal sexually to the reader. Subtext can be heterosexual, too. But it isn't necessarily farfetched for a shounen/seinen manga to have a few gay or bi characters, especially if they are side characters and we don't know much about their sexuality anyway. It seems more unbelievable to me that no gay people can exist in the shounen universe at all. I don't actively look for subtext, but I won't discount the possibility either.

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I dunno. The Zabuza/Haku relationship in Naruto struck me as intentionally subtext-y. To me, there are three kinds of subtext:

1. It's the missing piece of the puzzle that makes you go, "Eureka! Now everything makes sense!" (E.g., Ichi the Killer, which I think is intentional given similar themes in the author's other works.)

I didn't feel that the relationship between Zabuza and Haku had subtext...but maybe that's just me being clueless. 😕
However, I admit I shouldn't have said 'seinen doesn't have subtext'; seinen which deal with deep (and insane) psychological issues usually do have incredibly perverse and disturbing subtext-y-ness (is that even a real word?) between characters. (Not that I've read it, but I've heard people say Homunculus by the same author has it as well.) What I really meant was more normal seinen that aren't as twisted or explicit, don't have such themes. (At least not intentional ones.)

It seems more unbelievable to me that no gay people can exist in the shounen universe at all.

This definitely has something to do with the different countries we live in. In my country, homosexuality is incredibly rare. (Or at least, it's never 'out in the open' like in some Western nations.) In fact, even my parents say they have never met such a person. I certainly never have! So, it's not something I can identify with. And really, is gayness all that common, even in the US? 😲

Quote from cyclamen

It seems more unbelievable to me that no gay people can exist in the shounen universe at all.

This definitely has something to do with the different countries we live in. In my country, homosexuality is incredibly rare. (Or at least, it's never 'out in the open' like in some Western nations.) In fact, even my parents say they have never met such a person. I certainly never have! So, it's not something I can identify with. And really, is gayness all that common, even in the US? 😲

The statistics vary, but they tend to range between 2%-10% of the population being gay, lesbian, or bisexual. Of course, they're estimates - no one knows the exact number. Nevertheless, even if you go for the low of 2%, that's 1/50 people. it's a safe bet to say that pretty much everyone in America has met someone who is not straight, whether they know it or not (and yes, a lot of people don't know it). I don't know the statistics for other nations, but I'd think you could say that most people have met someone who is not straight, even if said someone is not out.

And to get back on topic!

Quote from NightSwan

Ya know Doc, there are fudanshi, too. 🙂

YES! One right here. I'm male, and I love subtext. I see subtext everywhere. Gay, straight, men, women, I see it all. I'm an equal-opportunity subtexter - though I suppose that most of the subtext I see is gay male subtext, considering that most of the manga I read has casts that are overwhelmingly male. ^^;

However, I do keep the subtextual implications and the actual storyline separate in my head. Even if, statistically, there should be a few gay people in those shounen manga with casts of 100+ characters, that doesn't mean I'm going to go slashing all of them together. Sure, subtext can be enjoyable, but unless it's very deliberate, intentional subtext (e.g. a BL mangaka doing non-BL manga and adding some slashiness just for fun, or suggestive hints that are part of a developing plot), it should be enjoyed apart from the actual storyline.

I see subtext, between both genders, in everything I read. I always think "what could she have meant by that?" or "those two are awfully close, aren't they"? It's one of those things that I never grew out of, and I always find it fun to find "evidence" for a certain pairing. Besides, when a manga I'm reading is getting boring, I can just make up subtext between the characters to spice it up.

I agree that it can get frustrating to make up subtext between characters that you know won't get together. But that's where dojinshi, fanfics, etc come in. I mean, it's called fandom for a reason, not everything produced by it has to follow the plot. This explains the large yaoi fan followings of most shonen manga. The point is, there doesn't have to be evidence for something to exist.