Quote from LazyReviewer

Official statements aren't reliable, and just because something ...

Then from where do you know the target audience of the said magazine if it is not from the official publisher?

Personally, I don't find shounen/shoujo complicated as there are characteristics of those labels. They are genre, not just demographic. The problem arises when you think of them as just demography.

Following the English rating K, K+, T, M, MA will cause many seinen manga to be labeled as K or K+, and shounen manga as T or M, which is counter-intuitive. It would be funny xD. English publishers do that though, teens, mature etc. But then the biggest question is, who decides the said manga has such a rating?

And Japanese publishers can be very vague about age rating, but can also be very specific (20ish-30ish, then 30ish-40ish, and 40-60ish), which both are not covered by those rating. Like... CMIIW, shoujo/josei manga from big publishers have 'elevator system': they expect readers to 'graduate' from one magazine and then move to the next magazine from the same publisher, so the age group is rather specific.

GFantasy is often listed as Shoujo on ebook stores, and comic gene's aesthetics and the way it is panelled is Shoujo, it also is listed as a Shoujo on ebook stores. The whole process of how the magazine is designed and published isn't remotely similar to weekly Shounen Sunday or comic rex, it's clearly made with female audiences in mind, from the editors to the mangaka. I doubt the percentage of male readers approaches the percentage of female readers those publications. They clearly are a certain niche intended for female readers, comic zero sum-gfantasy-comic gene-blue knight-, they are Shoujo. It goes beyond Shounen/seinen labeled magazines that have a manga here and there that is for female readers, and personally as a reader, who likes female targeted things, it is hard enough to find Shoujo that also has a fantasy/action bent nowadays. As opposed to even Hana to yume and princess and mystery bonita, they also have a specific aesthetic with males and more male focused characters.

Quote from A Manga Anon

GFantasy is often listed as Shoujo on ebook stores, and comic gene's aesthetics and the way it is panelled is Shoujo, it also is listed as a Shoujo on ebook stores. The whole process of how the magazine is designed and published isn't remotely similar to weekly Shounen Sunday or comic rex, i ...

Does Square-Enix manga webstores call them shoujo manga? It is registered in Japan Magazine Publishers Association (JMPA) and Japan Magazine Advertising Association (JMAA), an association where Square Enix a member of it. The database is also frequently updated (the last update was Feb 2023 IIRC).

C'moA, Rakuten Kobo, EbookJapan, Honto.jp, 7Net, etc are NOT the official publisher of GFantasy, they can market it as they want. There is no law that forces them to tag it according to the official publisher. And GFantasy manga can be tagged with various 'demo' from shoujo manga, josei manga, shounen manga, etc. And, IIRC, Kuroshitsuji was nominated in shounen manga category.

Weekly Shounen Jump nowadays also caters female readers in terms of character design and personality. Kuroko no Basket and Prince of Tennis for example.Tenipuri actually got a huge female fanbase, bigger than male fanbase. And Weekly Shounen Sunday has been long to have a significant female readership because the magazine excels in romance, or subtle romance.

And shounen-seinen manga is just classification without gender in the first place. It is not wrong to call it shounen manga.

Quote from A Manga Anon

it is hard enough to find Shoujo that also has a fantasy/action bent nowadays.

If the 'demo' tag in the MangaUpdates just means the magazine labelling according to what the original publisher said, why does it matter?

That's why I was asking in the first place: what does the 'demography' in MangaUpdates mean? Does it follow how the official publisher calls the magazine? Does it follow the target audience of the magazine, where a seinen magazine that target women are tagged with josei? Or what?

Quote from AkatsukiKawa

Then from where do you know the target audience of the said magazine if it is not from the official publisher?

Who says you need to know the target demographic in this way? Especially since, as I said, the demographic is shifting over time and is likely to shift into new meanings.

I don't recognize some shonen manga as being shonen, so that demographic is useless to me as I find the descriptor unreliable.

Quote from AkatsukiKawa

Personally, I don't find shounen/shoujo complicated as there are characteristics of those labels.

The characteristics of these labels are changing. Why keep them if they mean two or more different things?

Quote from AkatsukiKawa

They are genre, not just demographic. The problem arises when you think of them as just demography.

They are not genre; you don't seem to know the meaning of the word.

Here's the Merriam Webster definition: Genre - A category of artistic composition, as in music or literature, marked by a distinctive style, form, or content.

Also, 'demography' is the study of demographics, not the demographics, themselves.

Demographics may tend to lean towards certain genres, but you will find different genres and even art styles labelled as seinen. We don't label music by publisher when looking for music.

Quote from AkatsukiKawa

Following the English rating K, K+, T, M, MA will cause many seinen manga to be labeled as K or K+, and shounen manga as T or M, which is counter-intuitive. It would be funny xD. English publishers do that though, teens, mature etc. But then the biggest question is, who decides the said manga has such a rating?

Tell me you've never read the ratings without telling me you've never read the ratings.

And who decides what manga is for what demographc? Often, stories pick up audiences that were not intended. Sometimes they get shifted to another magazine because of this or due to contract issues. How is that reliable enough to use as a proper category?

Quote from AkatsukiKawa

And Japanese publishers can be very vague about age rating, but can also be very specific (20ish-30ish, then 30ish-40ish, and 40-60ish), which both are not covered by those rating. Like... CMIIW, shoujo/josei manga from big publishers have 'elevator system': they expect readers to 'graduate' from one magazine and then move to the next magazine from the same publisher, so the age group is rather specific.

1. The age rating is about keeping kids from accessing certain content before they're mentally ready for it. Not about who is likely to enjoy a particular story.

Because there is absolutely stuff in Shonen Jump that is not for anyone under the age of 15, so I can't just blindly grab a story from that magazine and give it to a younger cousin or nephew.

2. With all due respect, I'm 30. I enjoy manga targeted at my age, 20 year olds, 14 year olds and 8 year olds. I'm going to buy the stories I like, not the whole demographic I'm expected to like. I suspect, despite the intention of the magazines, most people are like this.

Thus my question: why even keep these obsolete categories? I mean, we literally have thousands of descriptors on this site that do a better job.

I'm a jack of all trades but master of none. Too many jars and not enough hands.

Who says you need to know the target demographic in this way? Especially since, as I said, the demographic is shifting over time and is likely to shift into new meanings.

You may not need to know, but others may need it, and regardless of your and my necessities, Manga Updates has such tags. That's what I have been asking in the beginning. What kind of rules the Manga Updates follow? The target audiences or the so called demography? Or the genre as mentioned by the official publishers on their website?

They are not genre; you don't seem to know the meaning of the word.

They are genre, written in Katakana as ジャンル. You are the one who doesn't know the meaning of genre.

as you cited the Merriam Webster is correct.

a category of artistic, musical, or literary composition characterized by a particular style, form, or content

Shounen manga, Shoujo manga, Seinen manga, have their own style of drawing, composition, and storytelling derived from their long history and legacy. It is not just a matter of art style.

There are reasons why academic papers and books about manga use the word genre when describing shounen manga, shoujo manga, and so on.

And who decides what manga is for what demographc? Often, stories pick up audiences that were not intended. Sometimes they get shifted to another magazine because of this or due to contract issues. How is that reliable enough to use as a proper category?

The original publishers, of course? They are the sellers, they are the producers who design the magazine, its contents, and advertising. When publishers launch a magazine, they mention the concept of the magazine and sometimes the audiences they have in mind. And there are more categorizations than shounen magazine, shoujo magazine, seinen magazine, and josei magazine.

Yes, the target audience of a magazine may change over time (for example, Weekly Shounen Magazine shifted to older audiences due to the W3 incident in the mid of 1960s), but the genre often stays the same. In 1970s, Kodansha also realized and discussed about this:

昨今、本誌読者層の年令ママ構成の現状分析から、いわゆる〝誌名問題〟がクローズ・アップされてきております。それは「少年」マガジンを「ヤング」マガジンと改題することによって、企画の立案や誌面の制作など、もっとふっきれたシャープなものに出来得るのではないかというのが、その主たる論拠であるように思えます。しかしながら、この問題を考える際に忘れてはならないことは（中略）少年マガジンが立脚するところの編集理念そのものからの十分なる検討が、何にもまして重要であるという点であります。

本誌の基本理念とは――それはまさに「少年」のもつ純粋さとひたむきさ、夢と生命力、感受性と想像力そのものの追求であり、かくして「少年」マガジンは、老いも若きも、男・女の別さえも超える〝たましいのふるさと〟としてのあり方を極めたい――

結局、誌名問題は「少年」を「少年の心をもった人」と解釈して、現状維持となった。

Source: サンデーとマガジン (Amazon) page 190

The Weekly Shounen magazine is still a shounen magazine, and Kodansha still calls this magazine a shounen magazine to this day (https://ad.kodansha.net/detail/39/).

The genre of a magazine, whether it is a shounen magazine, shoujo magazine, and so on, may also change. But it is more uncommon than changes in target audiences.

The age rating is about keeping kids from accessing certain content before they're mentally ready for it. Not about who is likely to enjoy a particular story.

This is 'Western' age rating: to exclude audiences. Japanese manga 'age rating' is inclusive: to include audiences. It tailors the manga to those specific audiences taste. When they says 30 - 40, they think of 30 - 40 years old people and tailor their manga to their taste. The manga may be safe for children to read, but the children may not be attracted to that manga.

That's why you will find many manga suitable for all ages, in seinen magazines. Chii's Sweet Home rated 10+ in Kodansha US; it even has furigana which intended to help people, usually children, who cannot read kanji. But it is a seinen manga, which people in the West often think of as manga for adult men, and has an age rating of 18+.

Japanese 'content rating' is a result of complaints from the Parent-Teacher Association (PTA) and a result of laws over its history. Over magazines' long history, parents have complained to the magazines about their content. Publishers learned from this, and hence magazines have their own policies about their content regarding the age rating.

With all due respect, I'm 30. I enjoy manga targeted at my age, 20 year olds, 14 year olds and 8 year olds. I'm going to buy the stories I like, not the whole demographic I'm expected to like. I suspect, despite the intention of the magazines, most people are like this.

Thus my question: why even keep these obsolete categories? I mean, we literally have thousands of descriptors on this site that do a better job.

I am older than you, and I also enjoy reading many manga from whatever genre. The categorization tells me about the storytelling, how the manga is composed and crafted, its story and paneling focus, and so on. For example, most shounen manga retain those characteristics regardless of their targets. You see such characteristics in shounen manga for girls, shounen manga for teenagers, and shounen manga for adults. You can also compare it with shoujo manga; it would be different.

The problem is that some manga Manga Updates use different categorizations than Japan that rely on target audiences instead of the magazine genre. It is mixed and inconsistent, and hence it is very confusing. That's why I was asking about Manga Updates' stance or rules regarding this tag.