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Post #788674 - Reply to (#788670) by vigorousjammer
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7:35 pm, Feb 8 2021
Posts: 1143

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Quote from vigorousjammer
I get what you're saying, but I don't like that answer. Basically... just because that thing exists I have to learn how to exploit it or otherwise just be poor?

Short answer, yes. If you don't learn how to exploit the laws and systems provided to you (Created for YOUR benefit), you will end up poor. And frustrated. And controlled. And immorally exploited. And wasting you time spinning your wheels to achieve a similar result that someone else achieved with only a fraction of the time, energy, and resources you used.

That being said, that doesn't mean you always "need" to exploit something just because it exists. I made this point last week when I said that video conferencing servers no purpose beyond what a simple phone call can already achieve, except in the instance that you are giving a presentation. However, that does not excuse being ignorant of it. Getting back to the discussion of the stock market, do you know of another system or method that can be used to achieve a similar result to what the stock market can provide for you with? If the answer is "Yes", then pursue that venture if you prefer it, and there's nothing else that really needs to be discussed. If the answer is "No", then why are you avoiding the subject and refusing to educate yourself about it?

Quote from vigorousjammer
To me, that's almost like population control. It's almost like they're robbing me of my autonomy, using money as the main incentive, feeding into people's greed, saying "join us or die poor".

How is the desire to have money equivalent to being "greedy"? If it's just the desire to have money for no other reason than the sake of having money, I can agree with you there as that's the purest definition of greed. If you're desiring money for the sake of doing something with it, there's nothing greedy about it. It's something as simple as seeing the options that exist out there, but realizing that those options require money, so you find a way to make that money so that you can then have access to those options. It can range anywhere from materialist desires of wanting to build a model train set or play golf to realist desires of paying for regular maintenance on your car or seeking out the best medical attention when a crisis occurs. Some people have even taken it as far as pursing those wealth-producing outlets so that their spouse can quit their job, and/or spend more time with their kids and get them out of the nightmare that is public schooling.

At the end of the day, what's wrong with finding ways to make money so that you can increase your options?

Quote from vigorousjammer
If it didn't exist, there would absolutely still be corrupt people, yes, but there wouldn't be anything promoting such greedy and exploitative practices.

Have you heard of slavery? Not the wussy European/American kind where they actually treated their slaves humanely and allowed them the possibility to buy their freedom. I mean the African, Meso-American, and Asian kind where entire empires where built on the backs of POWs, and then having said POWs being sacrificed for their cults.

Also, what about government regulations and taxes, that are not designed for the public welfare, nor were created for the purposes of preventing exploitation?

Quote from vigorousjammer
The stock market incentivizes such practices

No, it does not. Easy example of this is how, before the American Civil War broke out, slavery (Sanitized as American slavery was) was actually proving to be fairly unprofitable. Reason why is because the cotton gin improved production so quickly, that plantations started achieving the same results with less people, and started losing money because it cost more to house, feed, and care for the slaves than if they had employees working under them. Similar advancements also lead to the reason why the North was much more developed than the South during that time.

Quote from vigorousjammer
and as a result I argue that it creates much greedier people than would otherwise exist.

How can it make people "greedier" unless they were already that greedy in the first place? People don't just "change" because now they have several million in their bank account. They were already like that and having "Fuck you" amounts of money reduced their number of reasons for continuing their farce.

Quote from vigorousjammer
Most people truly don't need a surplus of wealth

Until an emergency happens. Or, they want to support a struggling business. Or, they want to be a philanthropist.

Quote from vigorousjammer
but I think because the stock market turns the whole thing into a game, it plays to people's competitive sides

What's wrong with healthy competition in the marketplace? That's how America's economy was designed over 200 years ago, and every developed nation has fully embraced some flavor of it.

Quote from vigorousjammer
and they don't care that they are denying other people money or a right to survive

Then why don't you, or the people being hurt, file a lawsuit against the companies and entities that do this? Or create a union? Or start up your own business to compete with theirs, while offering employees the rights and money they deserve?

Quote from vigorousjammer
they just care about their own numbers going up.

And, those people will experience the eventuality that profits rise and fall. It doesn't continually grow exponentially.

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Post #788680 - Reply to (#788669) by HikaruYami
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7:05 am, Feb 9 2021
Posts: 158


Quote from HikaruYami
I expected the "None" responses to be closer to 40~50%, not 73%....


I agree that I thought the none would be way lower. But, I wasn't leaning towards 40% because there are a few oldies on here who I know for certain don't have jobs that give good or any 401k. All you independent contractors out there, I see you.


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Post #788681 - Reply to (#788669) by HikaruYami
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9:16 am, Feb 9 2021
Posts: 11


Quote from HikaruYami
I expected the "None" responses to be closer to 40~50%, not 73%....


First off, this website is frequented by more than just US citizens, so your point with the 401k is not available to at least one person who answered this poll. You would need to have an overview about the geographical distribution of the votes to make assumptions about the skewedness that comes from people who have some kind of missing knowledge about this instrument.


Second: I think you're severely underestimating the amount of people in this world who are barely able to make ends meet with the jobs they can get. Just because you lucked out and have a very well paying job does not mean that the majority of this site's visitors have to be the same. Maybe you should get off your high horse every once in a while to form a more grounded opinion, instead of assuming that things which don't reflect your worldview have to be wrong.

Post #788689 - Reply to (#788640) by achyif
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5:26 pm, Feb 9 2021
Posts: 231


Assuming the adults on this website are salary. Many probably aren't.

Post #788775 - Reply to (#788689) by licorice
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12:47 am, Feb 15 2021
Posts: 164


Quote from licorice
Assuming the adults on this website are salary. Many probably aren't.

True. You can refer to the salary poll from 2019 (recent enough) and see that the results track that much more closely than by age.

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