Quote from kana503

I don't care for fan service because I'm a girl. I don't get the least bit happy when I see a girl's panties or chest. I don't read manga for fan service; I read it for plot or art. Personally, I hate it when people use sex to sell products. Makes me angry and want to yell at some of the girls in commercials, "Don't you have a sense of pride?!"

Hehe hate to break it to you men arn't the only target audience when it comes to using sex to sell a product. Manga aside lots of advertisers use men as sex objects to sell certain products, its a very effective method 😃

Oh and E-chan fan service is basicly stuff put into a manga or anime purely for the fans enjoyment, serving very little signifigance to the plot. As mentioned earlier it basically has become a refrence to sexual stuff added, ecchie kinda stuff for shounen, like panty shots or oversized breasts.

Double dino to micro crimp!!!

Quote from tekanubis

too much fanservice = when your roomie/girlfriend/or just friend walk in and peer over your shoulder the first question they ask you is
"what the #$@% is wrong with you?"

Even better when you're a girl reading the manga. My bro saw me with tru-love-trouble (a manga that would be totally adorable and already over were it not for the fanservice-lately it's more service than plot) and just shook his head and walked away.

I liked Inukami even though it was all fanservice-but then it fit with the tone of the anime. Melancholy of Haruhi Suzemiya is another one where the service fit the tone. Another thing with those two, and Love Hina (and any of the other fanservice heavy manga's I like) is that there's a healthy dose of heart (cute moments between couples, nice development pieces, great character moments) that I just don't see in a lot of the all fan-service/all the time mangas. The last time I saw anything resembling development in tru-love was probably around 50 chapters ago.

Even worse is in anime like r+v where the skirts as so bloody short I spend the ENTIRE time watching the show thinking t myself how retarded the uniforms have gotten.

Same-I was wondering what school on any planet would allow skirts that short, and why all the camera shots had to start under the girls skirt. Forget the panties, I want plot, so I'm very happy to read this:

the manga for Rosario + Vampire isn't riddled with fan service, so I guess it's just the anime, which causes a little confusion

'cause I've been planning to read the manga forever, but the anime made me hesitate.

And to flip the gender, shoujo fanservice annoys me too. I really don't need a shirtless bishie in every manga I read, 'specially when the reason he's shirtless is a completely stupid beach/onsen episode or the requisite walking in on each other naked chapter.

well lets see um sex sell
everyone knows that.
and well girls wear panties right? and if you wear a skirt chances are high to see pantsu. YOu would think that people would be used to it that they would tune it out.
Pantsu Happens .

Quote from tekanubis

fanservice does not mean the same thing it used to
what it used to mean was giving into fan input and desires ranging from who a person would end up with...

fanservice now for the most part means means pantyshots/ gratuitous sexual inuendo

What the heck are you talking about? The term fan service is used to describe components in a story that are completely unnecessary to the plot, who are done with the sole purpose of pleasing the viewer/reader. For example, those almost "endless", intricate transformation sequences (henshin) so common in the magical girl/tokusatsu genre are a form of fan service.

What you (and for what I see, most of the people who posted on this topic) are talking about is a very specific form of fan service, one who is referred by most Westerners as "ecchi".

Quote from Deathman

like in the topic i still dont understand why so many manga and anime fans hates fanservie i mean isnt it good to see in anime and mangas what we like 😕 so then why when i talk about fan service i hear things like "nah fan service is crap ".

First of all, as I tried to clarify before, ecchi is not a synonym of fanservice, but a form of the latter. And for what I've read on this topic when you said "fan service" I suppose that you were referring to ecchi, since otherwise your statement would be highly contradictory. (As Stealth pointed out: )

Quote from Stealth

Well fan service in general isn't hated... since as it's name implies it's service for fans!

So let me rephrase your question: "I still don't understand why so many manga and anime fans hate ecchi, I mean, isn't it good to see it in anime and mangas that we like?"
Considering the provocative nature of ecchi, the answer to your question is pretty obvious Deathman. Ecchi is not largely "hated" by "most" manga/anime fans (since otherwise it wouldn't be featured in manga/anime anymore, don't you think?) only by "some" Occidental viewers/readers, since these have a very "particular" view of the human sexuality, influenced by any of the world's three great monotheistic religions that shaped the sociocultural aspects of the culture they were raised in. Japan, being an isolated country for most of its history, had very little contact with the West, resulting in being free from the typical Western view that associate any form of sexual titillation with impureness. So it's of no surprise to find a western fan who doesn't like ecchi but in fact, it should be a motive of surprise that so many people in the Occidental world like it.

[img]http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/9226/resizedsignatureal3.jpg[/img]

[quote=NeoFireHawk]

Quote from tekanubis

Ecchi is not largely "hated" by "most" manga/anime fans (since otherwise it wouldn't be featured in manga/anime anymore, don't you think?) only by "some" Occidental viewers/readers, since these have a very "particular" view of the human sexuality, influenced by any of the world's three great monotheistic religions that shaped the sociocultural aspects of the culture they were raised in. Japan, being an isolated country for most of its history, had very little contact with the West, resulting in being free from the typical Western view that associate any form of sexual titillation with impureness. So it's of no surprise to find a western fan who doesn't like ecchi but in fact, it should be a motive of surprise that so many people in the Occidental world like it.

Um, I don't think that's the case when people hate the overuse of pointless panty shots. It wouldn't matter to me whether the girl's panties were being shown or she was stripped naked or even if she got dressed up in cat ears and a normal outfit every few pages; the point is that it almost always has no relevance to the plot and is intended to attract male viewers with sex.

I don't mind shoujo fanservice as much because it seems a little more realistic. Guys really do walk around shirtless, for example... but how often do skirts (and it's been mentioned before in this topic that uniform skirts are not that short) flip up and show a girl's panties? I am a girl and I can honestly say that's never happened to me. I have also never been involved in or seen any incidents of, say, someone's bra showing... unless the girl wanted it to... and then she wouldn't act embarrassed or anything. Anyway, how many girls would really read a manga for the shirtless guys?

I was going to point out exactly what NeoFireHawk did, and I'd probably have failed to explain it as well as he did.
Yes fanservice isn't limited to panty shots... It's anything that is irrelevant to the plot, and is there only for the "cool" factor or the "hot" factor.

@Digital-Eon... you'd be surprised how many girls are only reading some manga for the bishies, and the shirtless shots.
And no... guys don't usually run around shirtless... I'm not saying they don't... but it isn't as common as it is in shoujo.

I'll have to disagree that Negima is solely ecchi fan service. If you would read it while looking past the pantie shots you might actually find the plot is really pretty good. Given Akamatsu use the first few voulme to help his fans transition from his former piece, Love Hina, to a story line that wasn't base purely on romantic situation. Yes there are a good amount of panty shot/bathing scenes but it is balanced almost equally if not out weighed but the fighting and plot driven scenes.

@Digital-Eon- yes indeed some of the school girls over here in Japan do indeed wear their skirts that short, well maybe not as short as Ikkitousen portrays, but they are extremely short, 🤨

[img]http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj56/Spanky858/Avis/1226195917014-1.jpg[/img]

Just to make this clear. Rosario+Vampire manga does not have a lot of pantieshots as in the anime. @_@ I don't even notice anything.

They even kind of censor it, unlike some other mangas. coughIkkiTousencough

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Quote from E-chan52

wait....?
What's fan service?

E-chan...put the word fan and service together and think about wut it might mean...>_>....sigh ur 2 innocent....T-T but we all lov u!! XD

@ Dr. Love...it just made it worse...made it look like she didnt wear any panties...>_>

As if handcuffed, I'm bound to the memories of you...

Quote from NeoFireHawk

Quote from tekanubis

fanservice does not mean the same thing it used to
what it used to mean was giving into fan input and desires ranging from who a person would end up with...

fanservice now for the most part means means pantyshots/ gratuitous sexual inuendo

What the heck are you talking about? The term fan service is used to describe components in a story that are completely unnecessary to the plot, who are done with the sole purpose of pleasing the viewer/reader. For example, those almost "endless", intricate transformation sequences (henshin) so common in the magical girl/tokusatsu genre are a form of fan service.

What you (and for what I see, most of the people who posted on this topic) are talking about is a very specific form of fan service, one who is referred by most Westerners as "ecchi".

Quote from Deathman

like in the topic i still dont understand why so many manga and anime fans hates fanservie i mean isnt it good to see in anime and mangas what we like 😕 so then why when i talk about fan service i hear things like "nah fan service is crap ".

First of all, as I tried to clarify before, ecchi is not a synonym of fanservice, but a form of the latter. And for what I've read on this topic when you said "fan service" I suppose that you were referring to ecchi, since otherwise your statement would be highly contradictory. (As Stealth pointed out: )

Quote from Stealth

Well fan service in general isn't hated... since as it's name implies it's service for fans!

So let me rephrase your question: "I still don't understand why so many manga and anime fans hate ecchi, I mean, isn't it good to see it in anime and mangas that we like?"
Considering the provocative nature of ecchi, the answer to your question is pretty obvious Deathman. Ecchi is not largely "hated" by "most" manga/anime fans (since otherwise it wouldn't be featured in manga/anime anymore, don't you think?) only by "some" Occidental viewers/readers, since these have a very "particular" view of the human sexuality, influenced by any of the world's three great monotheistic religions that shaped the sociocultural aspects of the culture they were raised in. Japan, being an isolated country for most of its history, had very little contact with the West, resulting in being free from the typical Western view that associate any form of sexual titillation with impureness. So it's of no surprise to find a western fan who doesn't like ecchi but in fact, it should be a motive of surprise that so many people in the Occidental world like it.

look the transforming sceens were the same kind of fanservice that america's 80's and 90's commercial sceen was at
incorrect, uninformed, and useless
you ever wonder why 90% of commercials used to be aimed at men...have babes everywhere and other such things
they were uninformed, and ended up not selling their products as well as they should

the proof that anime is slowly going throu this is the magical girl/tokusatsu nich almost dried up...the reason why it was so popular...and by popular i mean there was realy only one popular one (stupid sailor moon) was because it was aimed at a girl/boy demographic...it had fanservice....but what is always > then fanservice is a larger demographic

it is a fact that the male 18-30something is the largest demographic thant can be reached...but often the demographic that has the most free cash is the childrens...
however completly ignoring women/girl can also cause some problems....so as a result you may see that some of the more popular mangas...animes have(not totaly realistic) a closer hold on reality...kind of

fanservice was originaly something that was not part of the original plan...but added in to PLEASE the fans

where as right now it is used almost entirly to catch the attention of any 10-whatever year old males that are channel surfing

and again please dont misunderstand me im not going all bible belt southerner saying all fanservice should be banned..infact i loved love hina, negima, and ichigo 100%...but if fanservice is being used as a device to lengthen a program or replace plot (like in r+v the anime) i think it wouldnt be so bad to maybe delay the anime a few season's or even a year to get it right the first time

[color=red]Edit by mod: Do not double post[/color]

Quote from Stealth

I was going to point out exactly what NeoFireHawk did, and I'd probably have failed to explain it as well as he did.
Yes fanservice isn't limited to panty shots... It's anything that is irrelevant to the plot, and is there only for the "cool" factor or the "hot" factor.

@Digital-Eon... you'd be surprised how many girls are only reading some manga for the bishies, and the shirtless shots.
And no... guys don't usually run around shirtless... I'm not saying they don't... but it isn't as common as it is in shoujo.

😛 true enough
its almost like saying teengirls in america don't buy ym for the half naked men
or that the main reason guys buy playboy is for the insightful reading and point of views(they are there...but thats not the reason)

😛 and the shirtless thing is more of where you live...if its spring/summer/fall in miami the shirtless thing is pretty prevalent
...and after many guys grow up they do tend to walk(their house) around minus articals of clothing

Quote from tekanubis

and the shirtless thing is more of where you live...if its spring/summer/fall in miami the shirtless thing is pretty prevalent
...and after many guys grow up they do tend to walk(their house) around minus articals of clothing

The normality of shirtless guys (which yeah, granted won't wear shirts in the summer either) is feeing into of my line of thinking on why ecchi tends to equal fanservice in most people's minds. I just think it stands out as not being part of the plot in a way a lot of other fanservice doesn't.

For example, the magical girl transforms-in CCS Clamp used it for development, shortening the sequences as Sakura got better at her magic. I think a lot readers just take it as part of the whole fight scene, like a shounen character powering up (which is probably also a sort of fanservice, but again not gonna raise any flags 'cause it seems necessary to the plot 'cause the whole point of the manga is to get stronger and fight.)

The real fanservice in CardCaptor Sakura is probably all the outfits she gets shoved into-outfits are also probably the most fanservice part of Tsubasa, though there it's even less out of place 'cause of all the world traveling. Actually, I think for a lot of shoujo, the fashions probably the big service item, but it's not as glaring as ecchi 'cause people normally change their clothes and it can be used for characterization purposes. Then there are the standard fanservice chapters (Christmas, Valentines Day, White Day, Onsen) but in a manga where the whole plot is to get two people together, even those can be played for development of some sort.

@ Dr. Love...it just made it worse...made it look like she didnt wear any panties...>_>

Seconding-If they'd really wanted to censor it, they could have easily made it look like she was wearing shorts. One manga I know a main char who did that-which is really the sensible way to fight in a short skirt.

If you're already bothered with that... >.>;; It's da~rkness. Darkness equals censoring.

Also manga does not equal fiction. Sometime the most logical options are completely ignored. That's why no short shorts.

But the point is, I had to look for that kind of picture. In the R+V manga, there aren't panty shots on every page. @_@

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I don't like fanservice, I'm a woman and it distracts me from the story. It serves no point other than to make teenage boys snigger and get excited.

When there's more than a couple fanservice shots in an episode/chapter, I start getting turned off by the sexism. This goes for guys in shoujo series as well, I don't like it when there's random shots of them half-naked. If I want to look at fictional characters half-naked, I can always go buy a calendar or some merchandise. 😎

Shoujo and Otome Game Addict:
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Quote from lijakaca

I don't like fanservice, I'm a woman and it distracts me from the story. It serves no point other than to make teenage boys snigger and get excited.

When there's more than a couple fanservice shots in an episode/chapter, I start getting turned off by the sexism. This goes for guys in shoujo series as well, I don't like it when there's random shots of them half-naked. If I want to look at fictional characters half-naked, I can always go buy a calendar or some merchandise. 😎
You know, i cant remember the names, but ive seen a few animes/mangas where both guys and girls show "Fanservice". You, my dear mam, are just not looking on the right shelves

Now. Fanservice. A great thing. Depending on how its used. It can turn a story thats going everywhere into a story thats going into the cespool of waste known as "Oh! great".
Or, it can turn a story thats slightly off into a story that MEANS something. A great feat i might add.

Me, personally, i dont hate fanservice, but like everyone else, too much of a good thing is a bad thing.
Try eating pancakes everyday for a year D: Lets see if you still like it.

Thats my answer to why fanservice is hated by some people.

[url=http://fah-web.stanford.edu/teamstats/team79419.html][/url]

Quote from onizukaa

You know, i cant remember the names, but ive seen a few animes/mangas where both guys and girls show "Fanservice".

Naruto, Bleach, probably some of the other more popular series-and even then they don't have that much. I thought the slash fanservice in Naruto was brilliant (in a what!? kind of way) so I'll agree that sometimes fanservice can really work-just in moderation.

Or, it can turn a story thats slightly off into a story that MEANS something. A great feat i might add.

I'd love an example of this. I've seen way more of the other way-too much* fanservice throwing a decent enough story off kilter.

*I don't know-I think that kind of boils down to my real complaint. Not so much fanservice as when the entire anime/manga is service.