________________
On purpose without a purpose
Manga Poll
Manga is the Japanese equivalent of comics
with a unique style and following. Join the revolution! Read some manga today!
Join #baka-updates @irc.irchighway.net
RSS Feed
Forums
Abortion
Poll
It shouldn't happen
Women should have the choice
Maybe in certain circumstances
You must login to vote.
From User
Message Body
Da?
Member
7:13 pm, Feb 19 2009
Posts: 79
I voted that women should have the final choice in deciding whether or not they will abort a fetish...It's a life choice that men do not have the right to forbide. A man's body isn't effected in the same way a lady's body is effected during a pregnancy. It's a form of creation that men have a minor role in, so the authority should be more one-sided.
________________
On purpose without a purpose
________________
On purpose without a purpose
:D
Member
12:33 pm, Feb 21 2009
Posts: 734
Quote from eni
I don't support abortion aside from the 'life is in danger' situation. That includes for me a abortion after a huge psychological trauma (e.g. rape) as well. Abortion itself is wrong in any way you look at it. There are plenty of solutions to give away a newborn child nowadays and abortion is simply chosen way too often as the easy way out. Because birth hurts and because adoption hurts even more.
But I welcome legal abortion over illegal surgery. Period. That has the simple reason that you don't help women who seem to have no other choice for whatever reason. You only draw them back in a corner, letting someone do it who's not working with clean tools and medical license. Abortion needs to be legally restricted but shouldn't be forbidden completely.
Lastly, the system around the 'victim' needs to work. I can tell you this from my personal experiences: It doesn't.
When I was 15, I became pregnant. My boyfriend turned away from me and my family only gave me one choice: "Abortion or move out."
I went to a counseling center for women and they told me I'm too young. Abortion. I went to doctor and she told me I'm too young. Abortion. I went to the child protective services and they told me I'm too young. Abortion. I went to the church and they told me that they can't help but when I abort the child, I will be excommunicated.
In the end I gave in because there was NOBODY reachable to help and my time was running out. Due to my struggling the legal time (12 weeks) had already past for one week but the doctor did a favor to my mother and noted the wrong week on the papers. I was shivering, I was crying when giving my consent and not a freaking person in the room cared that I could only nod while the tears were running. I woke up crying from the anesthesia and I never recovered from this experience. Later, I lost two other children during pregnancy and every time it was risky due to problems that are possibly leftovers from the abortion.
So no, I don't support it because my experience showed me that it's used as an easy and comfortable solution for everyone. It's fast, it's clean and it's forgettable for nearly everyone. Before talking about making it illegal or restricting the legal way more, better look how the system as a whole works at the moment which accepts it's way to much as justified solution instead of something that should be avoided as much as possible. It should be the very last way out.
But I welcome legal abortion over illegal surgery. Period. That has the simple reason that you don't help women who seem to have no other choice for whatever reason. You only draw them back in a corner, letting someone do it who's not working with clean tools and medical license. Abortion needs to be legally restricted but shouldn't be forbidden completely.
Lastly, the system around the 'victim' needs to work. I can tell you this from my personal experiences: It doesn't.
When I was 15, I became pregnant. My boyfriend turned away from me and my family only gave me one choice: "Abortion or move out."
I went to a counseling center for women and they told me I'm too young. Abortion. I went to doctor and she told me I'm too young. Abortion. I went to the child protective services and they told me I'm too young. Abortion. I went to the church and they told me that they can't help but when I abort the child, I will be excommunicated.
In the end I gave in because there was NOBODY reachable to help and my time was running out. Due to my struggling the legal time (12 weeks) had already past for one week but the doctor did a favor to my mother and noted the wrong week on the papers. I was shivering, I was crying when giving my consent and not a freaking person in the room cared that I could only nod while the tears were running. I woke up crying from the anesthesia and I never recovered from this experience. Later, I lost two other children during pregnancy and every time it was risky due to problems that are possibly leftovers from the abortion.
So no, I don't support it because my experience showed me that it's used as an easy and comfortable solution for everyone. It's fast, it's clean and it's forgettable for nearly everyone. Before talking about making it illegal or restricting the legal way more, better look how the system as a whole works at the moment which accepts it's way to much as justified solution instead of something that should be avoided as much as possible. It should be the very last way out.
i agree with you.. abortion it is a big deal... and im against it..
me myself and i, but if there are reasons that i cannot understand cz i havent gone tru that kind of situation then im sorry... cz even if im against it there are things u can only know when u r living them...
anyone has the right to do what they want, and live with it after it happens too..
________________
"It's so warm that, Before the snow has a chance to stick, He melts it for me."
Yaoi Lover
Member
4:09 pm, Feb 28 2009
Posts: 23
I'm not against it but only if the pregnancy puts the mother's life in danger, I think that it should be allowed. But if they look at is as a solution for when they mess up, I don't approve. I mean, face the consequences and be responsible for your actions.
Then we have the cases were there are girls raped and want to go through an abortion. That will definitely damage the mother mentally in horrible way and it's going to stay for life. How can someone forget they were once carrying a child inside? I don't really think that someone can get over that 100%. If the mother is too young, she can take the baby to an adoption center or look for other alternatives, but ending a life is not the solution.
________________
Then we have the cases were there are girls raped and want to go through an abortion. That will definitely damage the mother mentally in horrible way and it's going to stay for life. How can someone forget they were once carrying a child inside? I don't really think that someone can get over that 100%. If the mother is too young, she can take the baby to an adoption center or look for other alternatives, but ending a life is not the solution.
________________
Member
8:38 am, May 25 2010
Posts: 116
Quote from kaerfehtdeelb
In certain circumstances. Like if it was rape, incest, or a danger to the woman's life.
Otherwise not, you shouldn't destroy a possible life just because you don't want it.
Otherwise not, you shouldn't destroy a possible life just because you don't want it.
I agree.
*daydreams about incest*
The Gorilla Killa™
Member
10:30 am, May 25 2010
Posts: 3229
Quote from ejo
Quote from kaerfehtdeelb
In certain circumstances. Like if it was rape, incest, or a danger to the woman's life.
Otherwise not, you shouldn't destroy a possible life just because you don't want it.
Otherwise not, you shouldn't destroy a possible life just because you don't want it.
I agree.
*daydreams about incest*
Third.
*doesn't daydream about incest, but about eating a nice, well-done steak*
________________
Quote from Klapzi
The cool part is that I never get tired of being deceived
Quote from tactics
Just because someone's head was chopped off doesn't mean they're dead. That's just silly.
Lord of nonsense
Member
11:48 am, May 25 2010
Posts: 1310
heh... whatever helps keeping world population in check...
No one should forbid anyone from anything, but they should be aware of the consequences...
I won't forbid you from killing your boss because he is annoying, however, I shall make clear the consequences of doing it... and as such, you will have to live (or die) with them.
No one should forbid women of doing an abortion, however there should be consequences to their acts (I am all for a capital punishment of not allowing them to have children ever), in that way, everyone is happy... We humans have to share less resources with the new generations, and everything improves greatly YAY!!
So yeah, I support abortion!!! UNTIL humans become space worthy... after that abortion is a great crime, because you are destroying a being that has yet to probe its worth. (for the lack of evil smile)
________________
No one should forbid anyone from anything, but they should be aware of the consequences...
I won't forbid you from killing your boss because he is annoying, however, I shall make clear the consequences of doing it... and as such, you will have to live (or die) with them.
No one should forbid women of doing an abortion, however there should be consequences to their acts (I am all for a capital punishment of not allowing them to have children ever), in that way, everyone is happy... We humans have to share less resources with the new generations, and everything improves greatly YAY!!
So yeah, I support abortion!!! UNTIL humans become space worthy... after that abortion is a great crime, because you are destroying a being that has yet to probe its worth. (for the lack of evil smile)
________________
0n3 Winged
Member
4:00 pm, May 25 2010
Posts: 603
I see the word "murder" alot here. A fetus within the first three mounths is not ALIVE. Ask any doctor who know anything about their job.
There is nothing to kill within the first three mounths!!!!!!! Jesus christ...
We should condem all those who wear condoms as they are killing possible life?
Yeah...that...thats just great guys, sometimes its best you understand the details before saying its wrong.
________________
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
There is nothing to kill within the first three mounths!!!!!!! Jesus christ...
We should condem all those who wear condoms as they are killing possible life?
Yeah...that...thats just great guys, sometimes its best you understand the details before saying its wrong.
________________
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
Member
12:48 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 193
I voted that I don't think it should happen (with the one exception of both parties being killed by the pregnancy because then you are saving a life.)
In my opinion it's not the babies fault that the father has done a horrible, evil, malicious act if the father raped the mother or incest happened. (Both are horrible crimes that should be given the death penalty or a harsh penalty). The baby did not ask to be created from that kind of situation and it shouldn't be hurt because of it. I know good couples who desperately want to adopt a child but they have to go on a waiting list that can last for years. If raising a child is too traumatizing for you then give your child to a family who desperatly wants to adopt.
If the baby was born because of a mistake (contraception failed) again, it's not the baby's fault and if you can't look after the baby financially, or because you are not emotionally prepared or because of any other reason then give your child to a loving family through adoption!
If the baby has some kind of dehabilitating disability/illness/ disease, abortion is not the way to go. Look at people like Stephen Hawking (who has cerebreal palsy) or Montel Williams (who has Multiple Sclerosis) or Micheal J. Fox (who has Parkinson's disease). There are a lot more people who have contributed greatly to the world and overcome hardships. Please, don't deny people with disabilities the right to help the world just because they have some handicaps that other people don't have.
As for "choice" what about the baby's choice?
"I see the word "murder" alot here. A fetus within the first three mounths is not ALIVE. Ask any doctor who know anything about their job."
Wait a second if something is dead then it cannot become alive again because it is 100% dead. A foetus is alive. It eats, drinks, moves, has a heart beat, and beginning from a certain stage (the stage is controversial, some doctors disagree as to when it actually starts,) can think.
Last edited by aries_girl at 12:53 pm, May 27 2010
In my opinion it's not the babies fault that the father has done a horrible, evil, malicious act if the father raped the mother or incest happened. (Both are horrible crimes that should be given the death penalty or a harsh penalty). The baby did not ask to be created from that kind of situation and it shouldn't be hurt because of it. I know good couples who desperately want to adopt a child but they have to go on a waiting list that can last for years. If raising a child is too traumatizing for you then give your child to a family who desperatly wants to adopt.
If the baby was born because of a mistake (contraception failed) again, it's not the baby's fault and if you can't look after the baby financially, or because you are not emotionally prepared or because of any other reason then give your child to a loving family through adoption!
If the baby has some kind of dehabilitating disability/illness/ disease, abortion is not the way to go. Look at people like Stephen Hawking (who has cerebreal palsy) or Montel Williams (who has Multiple Sclerosis) or Micheal J. Fox (who has Parkinson's disease). There are a lot more people who have contributed greatly to the world and overcome hardships. Please, don't deny people with disabilities the right to help the world just because they have some handicaps that other people don't have.
As for "choice" what about the baby's choice?
"I see the word "murder" alot here. A fetus within the first three mounths is not ALIVE. Ask any doctor who know anything about their job."
Wait a second if something is dead then it cannot become alive again because it is 100% dead. A foetus is alive. It eats, drinks, moves, has a heart beat, and beginning from a certain stage (the stage is controversial, some doctors disagree as to when it actually starts,) can think.
Last edited by aries_girl at 12:53 pm, May 27 2010
Is a female
Member12:53 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 3457
Women should have the choice.
I don't want to explain myself or my reasoning (too long), but that is what I believe.
I don't want to explain myself or my reasoning (too long), but that is what I believe.
Member
1:20 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 636
Quote from aries_girl
Wait a second if something is dead then it cannot become alive again because it is 100% dead. A foetus is alive. It eats, drinks, moves, has a heart beat, and beginning from a certain stage (the stage is controversial, some doctors disagree as to when it actually starts,) can think.
It's not dead. It's just not yet a person.
It is "alive", that's not disputable. It does consist of human DNA, also not disputable.
However, a fetus is not a person. It hasn't gotten to the stage of being able to think, it doesn't have a mind, it's not conscious, it's not sentient. It can potentially become a person, but isn't one yet.
Furthermore, an early stage fetus is not physically independent. If removed from its mother, it will die. This means its existence hinges on using its mother's body for life support. The mother, as a person, has rights, correct? She has no obligation to sacrifice her own happiness or well-being to allow another organism to live off her body.
________________
"It is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
Member
2:28 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 193
Quote from mattai
Quote from aries_girl
Wait a second if something is dead then it cannot become alive again because it is 100% dead. A foetus is alive. It eats, drinks, moves, has a heart beat, and beginning from a certain stage (the stage is controversial, some doctors disagree as to when it actually starts,) can think.
It's not dead. It's just not yet a person.
It is "alive", that's not disputable. It does consist of human DNA, also not disputable.
However, a fetus is not a person. It hasn't gotten to the stage of being able to think, it doesn't have a mind, it's not conscious, it's not sentient. It can potentially become a person, but isn't one yet.
Furthermore, an early stage fetus is not physically independent. If removed from its mother, it will die. This means its existence hinges on using its mother's body for life support. The mother, as a person, has rights, correct? She has no obligation to sacrifice her own happiness or well-being to allow another organism to live off her body.
Legally, (in my country anyways) a foetus is not a person. However, women were not considered "persons" until the 1930's either.
As for the baby not being sentient, at a certain point before the baby is born it does become sentinent. If you'd like me to look it up, I will because I did a paper on this very topic.
As for the foetus not being independant from its mother that is true. An unborn child cannot survive without it's mother. At the same time, isn't the child (who's born) also dependant on it's mother? If the baby was abandonned right on the spot it wouldn't survive either. The mother/parent/guardian has to provide shelter for the baby as well, or else it would be deemed child abuse (or probably die).
Again, if a woman/parent does not want to look after their child because it's imposing on their "happiness" then fine. Please give it up for adoption and that parent won't have to deal with the stress.
If somebody where to say that the mother/parent would feel stress/anxiety/ any negative emotion from giving their child up for adoption wouldn't the same person feel stress from ending the life of their unborn child, a human being?
Member
3:25 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 197
I voted for maybe in certain circumstances.
In extreme cases like rape i say yes.
I'm even more inclined to favoring abortion all the way, because in my view a fetus isn't exactly a child, it will became a baby, yes, but it's not yet a baby. It's life, but i don't think we can classify a fetus as a human being that thinks and so on, however the mother does all that.
And women should have a say on the matter, but on the other side i remember people who want to have kids and can't and there is always adoption. I watched that MTV show about teen moms, and one couple gave their kid to adoption, the costs were covered and that baby could live a normal life.
We don't live in the dark ages anymore, everybody knows about safe sex, everybody knows the responsabilities and consequenses that may arise, and i know not everything is that simple, but honestly...if a woman gets pregnant and it's not a rape or any of those extreme cases, then she has a responsability towards the life she is carrying. If she doesn't want the child then why not adoption?
It's a more utalitatian view i know, but it would make more people happy.
In extreme cases like rape i say yes.
I'm even more inclined to favoring abortion all the way, because in my view a fetus isn't exactly a child, it will became a baby, yes, but it's not yet a baby. It's life, but i don't think we can classify a fetus as a human being that thinks and so on, however the mother does all that.
And women should have a say on the matter, but on the other side i remember people who want to have kids and can't and there is always adoption. I watched that MTV show about teen moms, and one couple gave their kid to adoption, the costs were covered and that baby could live a normal life.
We don't live in the dark ages anymore, everybody knows about safe sex, everybody knows the responsabilities and consequenses that may arise, and i know not everything is that simple, but honestly...if a woman gets pregnant and it's not a rape or any of those extreme cases, then she has a responsability towards the life she is carrying. If she doesn't want the child then why not adoption?
It's a more utalitatian view i know, but it would make more people happy.
Member
3:29 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 141
3:29 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 141
Quote from aries_girl
If somebody where to say that the mother/parent would feel stress/anxiety/ any negative emotion from giving their child up for adoption wouldn't the same person feel stress from ending the life of their unborn child, a human being?
It's been said many times. Many people, myself included, do not consider a lump of cells [no more complicated than a fly] human.
Member
3:50 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 636
Quote
Legally, (in my country anyways) a foetus is not a person. However, women were not considered "persons" until the 1930's either.
Yes, relying on the legal definition of a person is insufficiently objective. That's why I used 'person' in regards to someone who is conscious, someone who thinks.
Quote
As for the baby not being sentient, at a certain point before the baby is born it does become sentinent. If you'd like me to look it up, I will because I did a paper on this very topic.
I should have been clearer. We're talking about abortions, which generally take place in the very early stages of a pregnancy if they take place at all. The fetus/embryo/whatever's brain is not sufficiently developed (if it's there at all) at this point to be capable of human-level thought.
Quote
As for the foetus not being independant from its mother that is true. An unborn child cannot survive without it's mother. At the same time, isn't the child (who's born) also dependant on it's mother? If the baby was abandonned right on the spot it wouldn't survive either. The mother/parent/guardian has to provide shelter for the baby as well, or else it would be deemed child abuse (or probably die).
Once the child is born, it is NOT dependant on its mother. It is dependant on some form of aid, but this can come from other sources. Thus, if the mother wishes, she can potentially entrust the well-being of her child to someone else. Not generally possible during the actual pregnancy.
Quote
Again, if a woman/parent does not want to look after their child because it's imposing on their "happiness" then fine. Please give it up for adoption and that parent won't have to deal with the stress.
Once it's born, sure. The nine months prior to that point aren't something every woman is willing to go through. If she chooses to terminate the fetus/embryo in order to preserve her own well-being or happiness, she should have the right to do so.
Quote
If somebody where to say that the mother/parent would feel stress/anxiety/ any negative emotion from giving their child up for adoption wouldn't the same person feel stress from ending the life of their unborn child, a human being?
Yes I agree. If pregnancies were transferable, that would be a much better option than abortion.
________________
"It is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."
0n3 Winged
Member
5:29 pm, May 27 2010
Posts: 603
Quote from aries_girl
Wait a second if something is dead then it cannot become alive again because it is 100% dead. A foetus is alive. It eats, drinks, moves, has a heart beat, and beginning from a certain stage (the stage is controversial, some doctors disagree as to when it actually starts,) can think.
=]
What makes a person alive? If a persons brain is dead but they still have a beating heart would you consider that person to be alive?
Some doctors disagree? By no means is it fact and they should prove it first. (This is one of the bases why abortion is legal) Stating a few disagree is like saying " A few agree". It needs to be hard proof like it is already.
It cannot see, think, remember or know anything. Then that is not classified as a human being. It is not murder to end the existance of something that is not yet to be.
If there is no brain activity then there is no feelings of pain or emotions or any of the above. Its just simple reactions of organic tissue. If it's not human then it's not murder. Potential life is the only thing being denied but that is done all the time by wearing a condom aswell as.
------
(Thats all within the first 3 mounths, btw)
Last edited by fr33noob at 5:40 pm, May 27 2010
________________
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
