Quote from fr33noob

A persons opinion can be wrong! Deny it if you will but i see no fact in your reasoning, and yes as an english language there are definitions to words with a broad prospect such as freedom. And the broad definition to this word is : to be able to do as please: move, think, act, shout, kill, steal, selfharm, suicide, masacare and basically anything within your possible grasp is "freedom".

What you actualy ment to say is that: a person opinion is always correct to the person whom has told it or he will always belive his own opinion is the right one, it is not possible to have an opinion you disagree with.

opinions are peoples perspective+preference and that can be WRONG.

That's because there are NO facts whatsoever in my reasoning. So that's why you didn't see any. So I might be wrong. I just say what I think at the moment.
But... you know... now that you're explained yourself a little more clearly (because I honestly had no idea what you were talking about before), I think our opinions on freedom pretty much the same, aren't they? Since "The ability to make your own choices" and "able to do as you please" mean the same thing.

You're right. I can never explain myself very well, so I'm glad you found the correct way to say what I could not.

Does the walker choose the path, or the path the walker?

free 😛 let me analyse what you said because I've noticed a little loophole in your speech.

Quote from fr33noob

A persons opinion can be wrong! Deny it if you will but i see no fact in your reasoning, and yes as an english language there are definitions to words with a broad prospect such as freedom. And the broad definition to this word is : to be able to do as please: move, think, act, shout, kill, steal, selfharm, suicide, masacare and basically anything within your possible grasp is "freedom".

Opinion (as an existing definition) can't be wrong, because it doesn't even aim to be right or wrong. It's a suggestion if you will.(facts however can be wrong). For example if there is a blue car, I can suggest that I see it as a black car because I am colour blind, and EVEN though it is a blue car, at the same time to me it is a FACT that it is a black car no matter what everyone else says, so in this case BOTH are facts(this is because there is no counterpart illness to being colour blind, so you can never be sure(this is if you really want to get down to details)). This is why we require opinions. Even the car is blue in it's original existence, there is no way to prove that if you are colourblind person. And remember things like arguments, facts, and opinions are all human-made things. So if there are 2 people arguing and one sees the car blue, another black, they are both right? What do we make out of it? A clash of opinions, and nor of them should be denied because they are both RIGHT. So in this part of argument you can't say there is an opinion that is wrong in that sense. Yes it might be disagreeable, however you can't state that it's wrong. Because once again it is all your opinion.

Part 2:

Quote from fr33noob

What you actualy ment to say is that: a person's opinion is always correct to the person who has told it or he will always belive his own opinion is the right one, it is not possible to have an opinion you disagree with.

You see. One of the first signs of intelligence is being able to argue your own opinions. Not everything in this world is based on factual information. Every person percieves the information differently and to acknowledge that you state an opinion. With every opinion stated, you're able to analyse it and it's not only other people's opinions but your own, too. Lets say for example you have an opinion that god exists to start off with. Now you have two ways to go from here, an intelligent way of looking at things, and a closed-minded way. If you are closed-minded, you will stick to your original opinion no matter what anybody else says/how they prove you wrong, much like you said yourself "think that it's not possible to have an opinion that you disagree with". Now if you take the intelligent route, you will first ask yourself a question "why?". For example let's discuss religion since it's a popular topic. So, if you believe in god "why?". Then you will find yourself looking for an answer to another question "how?", and then finally be led to an assumption that your own opinion was wrong, and maybe you need to change it?
So in the end you will be accepting the fact that god doesn't exist and thus gaining a new opinion(I say opinion because no one REALLY knows how the earth was made). Now with this new opinion you will have something like "God doesn't exist." So now once again you will have a question "Why?" and to this you will have a theoretical answer "Because of the big bang theory". Then after "why?" comes another question "how?", to this you will have a "explanation of the big bang theory etc.etc.etc. (dont wanna put too much detail), and this is how the earth was made." Once again, from this point you have a choice whether to believe this theory which is someone elses long research and some of it is factual information. Now, this makes it partially factual, and a reason to believe it, and because with reason there are facts, you are most likely to believe it. However some, for example scientists, are trying to find out even deeper information about the real reasons. So in the end (if you don't want to go deeper and deeper to analyse the truth behind it all), you will most likely stay simple-minded and stick to your original opinion. But a statment "an opinon can be WRONG" is invalid, because in the end it all depends on YOU. And it's only your opinion if you say otherwise.
So, when you said "opinion can be wrong", see this, is your opinion, and even though your actual opinion states that opinions can be wrong, which is a generally invalid conclusion, your opinion isn't wrong, because it's a suggestion. A suggestion to mend things, a suggestion for people to start seeing things your way, which is what suggestions do. It doesn't have to be wrong or right to want to mend something.

And PEOPLE !!don't bother to quote me and post a reply saying "well, this is only your opinion", to me. Because, well then you are an idiots. This is because I am looking at the whole situation, not from a human perspective, not even from my perspective, but from a general perspective of existence and defining each sentence as I go along, this means that what I've just said above is not factual information, however it's not my opinion either. It's something that you'd refer to as "law of communication". It's just the way things work, if you like it or not.

Part 3:

Quote from fr33noob

opinions are peoples perspective+preference and that can be WRONG.

Opinion isn't pespective, opinion comes from a perspective. And once again, if I am colourblind, you can't say I'm wrong for seeing a blue car black because you don't know what is a counter part for being colourblind, and you see, the way I said "you can't say that I'm wrong for seeing a blue car black". Even though I am wrong in general because we have accepted that we can see colours, you can't say that my opinion for seeing the black car is wrong. My facts are wrong, yes. But my opinion for seeing what I see isn't wrong. Stating facts in an opinionated way is completely different from having an opinion. Once again the layout of the way we communicate is all based on the "law of communication", and that I'm afraid is unchangeable, for it is not an opinion of someone, nor it's a fact proven by anybody, it was just there since the first cohherent sentences were spoken.

[img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6069/angelh3artsignature.jpg[/img]
THE ONLY THING I FAIL AT IS FAILING

opinions are peoples perspective+preference and that can be WRONG.

Opinion isn't pespective, opinion comes from a perspective. And once again, if I am colourblind, you can't say I'm wrong for seeing a blue car black because you don't know what is a counter part for being colourblind, and you see, the way I said "you can't say that I'm wrong for seeing a blue car black". Even though I am wrong in general because we have accepted that we can see colours, you can't say that my opinion for seeing the black car is wrong. My facts are wrong, yes. But my opinion for seeing what I see isn't wrong. Stating facts in an opinionated way is completely different from having an opinion. Once again the layout of the way we communicate is all based on the "law of communication", and that I'm afraid is unchangeable, for it is not an opinion of someone, nor it's a fact proven by anybody, it was just there since the first cohherent sentences were spoken.

note the part were i say it can be wrong<>
evidently what you say is functional but when i said opinion is perspective+preference, i ment as two things they make an opinion, what you did there was just restate my sentence but incline that an opinion can be right but you cannot deny that it can be wrong.
(big on saying it CAN be wrong, and yes most people think their opinion is right)
just to clarrify, you didn't really prove anything all you did was comment on my language.

And i can't be asked to read the big ass text about why you think what i said about opinion is wrong.

Yes it might be disagreeable, however you can't state that it's wrong. Because once again it is all your opinion.

 🤣     Really? Speaking on a level of reasoning don't you think a person can be logical enough to state things from a logistical point of view>? Saying your opinion is wrong is opinion? That isn't entirly true is t now? It all depends on the statement...and the posability that his opinion cannot be changed.

If you talk like that then everything will become opinion, you can make a statement that is politicaly right, mathematicaly unrivaled and in doing so correct the missguided opinion of others and state theirs to be wrong depending on the nature of the statement.

(eye colour and wether or not the galaxy is infinite go down diferent roots, ones opinion on colour is based soley on perspect the other statement is both perspective and preference).

[img]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k528/fr33noob/on3winged9.jpg[/img]
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg[/img]

Quote from fr33noob

just to clarrify, you didn't really prove anything all you did was comment on my language.

And i can't be asked to read the big ass text about why you think what i said about opinion is wrong.

Umm, you see this is what happens when you don't read the post before posting a reply, I'm sure it makes no sense to you because you didn't read it all. Please do before posting next reply 😉
And it's not what "I think" it has nothing to do with it. It's how it is. And on top of this all I wasn't trying to prove anything in the first place, I was just stating how it has always been in the first place, but I'm glad that you thought I did..maybe that will give you something to think about. But please before posting the next reply do read the post 🙂

Quote from fr33noob

Really? Speaking on a level of reasoning don't you think a person can be logical enough to state things from a logistical point of view>? Saying your opinion is wrong is opinion? That isn't entirly true is t now? It all depends on the statement...and the posability that his opinion cannot be changed.

If you talk like that then everything will become opinion, you can make a statement that is politicaly right, mathematicaly unrivaled and in doing so correct the missguided opinion of others and state theirs to be wrong depending on the nature of the statement.

(eye colour and wether or not the galaxy is infinite go down diferent roots, ones opinion on colour is based soley on perspect the other statement is both perspective and preference).

Don't you get it. My whole point of this argument is that an opinion (RIGHT?) a frigin, ACTUAL opinion as a definition, cannot be pronounced WRONG. Why? Well because it is a mere suggestion! You can't say that what i suggest is WRONG, you can disagree with it but you CAN NOT SAY THAT IT'S WRONG?!!? WHYY?? Because opinions aren't ment for PROVING or STATING something as a FACT. Facts can be wrong, opinions can't be wrongggggg.!! Coming back to religion right 😕 ? If i am a die hard christian, no matter how mathematically unrivaled and politically correct or scientifically accurate your facts are I will think that god has made earth and that's the only way it happen! And I'm not wrong to think that. It's only what i believe in what I say. Opinion is like a belief, and you, yourself have agreed with me that beliefs can't be argued or denied. Because it just exists there, it's just like a belief. Are we clear now? Opinion is a belief expressed to others through defnition. That's that...JEEZ

[img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6069/angelh3artsignature.jpg[/img]
THE ONLY THING I FAIL AT IS FAILING

Quote from angelh3art

Quote from Pedro Boh

do prisoners have freedom?
Yes, they can make choices and it was the stupid ones that made them go to jail.

READ. The question is Do prisoners have freedom? The word "Prisoner" means he is in jail. So it clearly asks do the ones that are in jail have freedom? It doesn't question as to HOW they got there. It asks "Do they have it (in jail?)".

If you cut my answer before the "and" you'll see what I meant. The rest was simply extra. Hence I meant "Yes, they can make choices."
Everyone is free to try anything. It doesnt mean they'll succeed or that they won't be stopped by someone/something. You ask "But if someone stops of imprisons them are they really free?" and I say "Well, yes. You see, as you are free to try anything everyone is free to try and stop you from doing it. Freedom is unrelated to power or physical restraints."

Freedom, imho, is a state of mind, not of body.

Quote from Pedro Boh

Quote from angelh3art

Quote from Pedro Boh

do prisoners have freedom?
Yes, they can make choices and it was the stupid ones that made them go to jail.

READ. The question is Do prisoners have freedom? The word "Prisoner" means he is in jail. So it clearly asks do the ones that are in jail have freedom? It doesn't question as to HOW they got there. It asks "Do they have it (in jail?)".

If you cut my answer before the "and" you'll see what I meant. The rest was simply extra. Hence I meant "Yes, they can make choices."
Everyone is free to try anything. It doesnt mean they'll succeed or that they won't be stopped by someone/something. You ask "But if someone stops of imprisons them are they really free?" and I say "Well, yes. You see, as you are free to try anything everyone is free to try and stop you from doing it. Freedom is unrelated to power or physical restraints."

Freedom, imho, is a state of mind, not of body.

If they are physically restrained, well then they are not free to leave the premises are they now! and yes they are free to try to leave the premises, but they will most likely fail, meaning that they are restrained, which then defeats the whole purpose of fulfilling their freedom as a concept. =S jhesus is it so hard to just think about it all a bit simplier and avoid all the unnecessary arguments? i mean cmon...They are free to try anything? YES, but are they free to achieve anything? No. That's where it ends.

[img]http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/6069/angelh3artsignature.jpg[/img]
THE ONLY THING I FAIL AT IS FAILING

death

Quote from angelh3art

Quote from fr33noob

just to clarrify, you didn't really prove anything all you did was comment on my language.

And i can't be asked to read the big ass text about why you think what i said about opinion is wrong.

Umm, you see this is what happens when you don't read the post before posting a reply, I'm sure it makes no sense to you because you didn't read it all. Please do before posting next reply 😉
And it's not what "I think" it has nothing to do with it. It's how it is. And on top of this all I wasn't trying to prove anything in the first place, I was just stating how it has always been in the first place, but I'm glad that you thought I did..maybe that will give you something to think about. But please before posting the next reply do read the post 🙂

Quote from fr33noob

Really? Speaking on a level of reasoning don't you think a person can be logical enough to state things from a logistical point of view>? Saying your opinion is wrong is opinion? That isn't entirly true is t now? It all depends on the statement...and the posability that his opinion cannot be changed.

If you talk like that then everything will become opinion, you can make a statement that is politicaly right, mathematicaly unrivaled and in doing so correct the missguided opinion of others and state theirs to be wrong depending on the nature of the statement.

(eye colour and wether or not the galaxy is infinite go down diferent roots, ones opinion on colour is based soley on perspect the other statement is both perspective and preference).

Don't you get it. My whole point of this argument is that an opinion (RIGHT?) a frigin, ACTUAL opinion as a definition, cannot be pronounced WRONG. Why? Well because it is a mere suggestion! You can't say that what i suggest is WRONG, you can disagree with it but you CAN NOT SAY THAT IT'S WRONG?!!? WHYY?? Because opinions aren't ment for PROVING or STATING something as a FACT. Facts can be wrong, opinions can't be wrongggggg.!! Coming back to religion right 😕 ? If i am a die hard christian, no matter how mathematically unrivaled and politically correct or scientifically accurate your facts are I will think that god has made earth and that's the only way it happen! And I'm not wrong to think that. It's only what i believe in what I say. Opinion is like a belief, and you, yourself have agreed with me that beliefs can't be argued or denied. Because it just exists there, it's just like a belief. Are we clear now? Opinion is a belief expressed to others through defnition. That's that...JEEZ

belife+"positive knowledge?".
On the contrary you can say its wrong if you have sufficant evidence or reasoning. And like i said it all grinds down to the statement.
When you say it is wrong you are talking about the false pretence of the knowledge.
You can belive init however much you like, but if my logic beters over you're opinion then i can say its wrong, most people "belive" their opinion is right backed up with that positive knowledge ...once you eliminate that part then it no longer is an opinion...
Remember it is not just a belife, a belife does not need any positive knowledge it can be all makebelive.

And having said all that 1 and 2 need to exist, without 2 it makes 1, since they both need to exists then i can state 2 to be wrong meaning 1 and 2 are wrong since they do not separate.
(1 of corse being belifeand 2 of course being **positive knowledge ** = opinion)

[img]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k528/fr33noob/on3winged9.jpg[/img]
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg[/img]

What does it mean to be free?
I don't have a clue. Too many or little things would make you believe or will make you free. Or so I think.

Are you free?
As if.

Is anyone free?
If they think so, than they are.

do prisoners have freedom?
Do they? I don't know. I've never been in their shoes.

What do you think of choices people make?
It's something they HAVE to make. Not free. Either gain or lose at the same time.

Is America Really a land of the free?
Wtf are you smoking? America? Please.

People do say you can find freedom through religion, is this really true?
What do you think?

Can you really have peace and freedom together?
Maybe.

P.S. People are way to serious. "Take it easy~"

[img]http://i45.tinypic.com/10pvn8y.jpg[/img]
（ﾉﾟ-ﾟ）ﾉ☆どぞ。
Have a star.

Quote from Pedro Boh

Freedom, imho, is a state of mind, not of body.

This reminds me of The Star Rover. The only book I ever liked by Jack London.

I think that Freedom is sort of abstract and can be paradoxical. One can be free in their state of mind while be physically confined, and vice versa. Of course, everyone has their own definition of Freedom.

Sorry I didn't answer the specific question~

fr33noob and angelh3art need to stop trolling. 🤨

We should all keep in mind:
There are no stupid questions or answers, but a lot of inquisitive idiots. (And Trolls)

I honestly can't see how you would fight over something so STUPID since it is COMPLETELY PERSONAL. Any answer in the thread is only hypothetical. There is no real answer to what freedom is so you can't go around telling people they are wrong.

[img]https://www.yourgimmick.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/banner1.jpg[/img]

sigh after all...you just...I...ahhh...say the same thing...just...sigh

when i said it was wrong it wasn't "wrong" right?I was quoted to begin with, i only replied to my quotes...perfectly reasonable.

I just happend to state something different from others.

[img]http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k528/fr33noob/on3winged9.jpg[/img]
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/26.jpg[/img]

Depend what you mean by freedom ,complete freedom in my opinion doesn't exist because of law.

This is pretty hard to answer, is there really such a thing as freedom.
As long as there are other people besides yourself, you can never be free.
your freedom will allways be limited by others. Be it out of their zelous self righteousness or to impose their dominance over others, doesn't really matter.
I think the only real freedom is in your mind. You are free to think and feel whatever the hell you want. But you can't express this or act upon this, lest you break some law or hurt someones precious feelings.
Though you could also say that even mental freedom doesn't exist. Since what you think and feel are all shaped by what you experienced and how it defines you.
So only new borns have true freedom. (Dead people don't think, so they don't count.)

I would also like to reply to this silly notion, you can find freedom through religion.
Please, if there ever was something that limited freedom it would be religion. With their dogmas and rules of how to live your life.
I have a saying, "To the thinking mind, religion works like a ball and chain. You can try moving forward, but your not gonna get very far unless you take it of."

Do but despise reason and science,
The highest of all human gifts -
Then you have surrendered to the Devil
And must surely perish. - J.W. von Goethe

Freedom IMO <---- : D
is when you have nothing that ties you down, having no bonds with anything. So if you have nothing to care for to watch out for you can do what you want whenever you want.

Freedom ish lonely o.o

[img]http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww187/D_dragon/omfgpudding-1.jpg[/img]