Quote from Crenshinibon

Quote from YoakeNoHikari

Belief requires no reason.

You're missing the point.

The question is "assuming you do believe in a deity, would there be anything out there that could change that belief?" And, naturally, the opposite would apply to atheists.

I realize the question.

'Twas my answer.

Quote from Shuu-chan

Note that I am not attacking you, your beliefs or your right to them, but this is a really stupid statement. You just basically said that you will believe in something no one can prove and that "logic" has less validity than faith? That makes absolutely no sense.

okay i'll Justify my belief in a more reasonable way (to everyone who disagrees with my beliefs,please dont feel offended by whatever im about to write,i respect everyone's point of view as long as they respect mine) :

1-athiests believe in science ,right? and all athiests argue that the existence of god is beyond logic ,right?
here's a question to all athiests:where did Matter and energy come from? to this day ,no scientist is able to answer this question,there are theories that matter is a result of a chain of reactions ,but theres no solid proof of anything till now...so you see,both athiests and those who believe in god are on equal standings in this matter....i cant explain why i believe in god even though i cant see him...and you cant give me a complete scientific logical explanation on the origin of earth

2-Atheism declares it does not believe in faith,right?according to an athiest,science is the absolute truth...
but if you give this a second thought,dont we have faith in scientists too?unless ofcourse you yourself can verify all their findings to prove that what they are saying is true.we all need to put some degree of faith in scientists...afterall scientists are all humans and many scientists committed scientific errors in the past,am i wrong?

Quote from sarah-eats-cupcakes

okay i'll Justify my belief in a more reasonable way (to everyone who disagrees with my beliefs,please dont feel offended by whatever im about to write,i respect everyone's point of view as long as they respect mine) :

1-athiests believe in science ,right? and all athiests argue that the existence of god is beyond logic ,right?
[...]

2-Atheism declares it does not believe in faith,right?according to an athiest,science is the absolute truth...
[...]

You are making several faulty assumptions here.

1. Atheist (and agnostics generally) don't 'believe' in science, as you put it. It is the trust we have in science to provide valid and factual insight into the workings of the world and universe in general.
   And as for the matter thing, no, atheists and religious folk are not on equal standing. A scientist or atheist will say "we do not know yet. But we are trying to." While the religious folk say "god did it." without any kind of argument or evidence provided. You see the difference there? One claims ignorance while trying to remedy that. The other claims knowledge it doesn't have.
   Still, science has come a long way to explaining the origins of the world and universe in general, there are several hypothosese which are being researched as we speak. However, this research is incredibly complex, so even if it is proven how the universe came to be, most (religious) people wouldn't even be able to understand the explanation.
   Personally, I quite like the hypothesis of the universe being a quantum space bubble. It is still far from being proven or disproven.

2. Which brings me to the second point. There is no "faith" in scientists perse. It is trust in the scientific method to provide insight into how the world and universe works. Scientific truth isn't an absolute truth religious people like to have, it is scientific fact, which is different. Back in the day, Newtons mechanics were absolute fact to explain motion in bodies. Then Einstein came around and said "pretty good try, but not quite." And then we got relativity.
   If a scientist makes a mistake at some point, another scientist will correct this mistake.
   Science doesn't just come from indiviuals, it is a collective endeavor.

This is all limited to the natural sciences however.
For knowledge on other subjects, like morality and such, go ask a philosopher, someone who actually thinks about why something is right or wrong, not just blindly clinging to a book to tell him/her.

Do but despise reason and science,
The highest of all human gifts -
Then you have surrendered to the Devil
And must surely perish. - J.W. von Goethe

Quote from The Guy

You are making several faulty assumptions here.

1. Atheist (and agnostics generally) don't 'believe' in science, as you put it. It is the trust we have in science to provide valid and factual insight into the workings of the world and universe in general.
   And as for the matter thing, no, atheists and religious folk are not on equal standing. A scientist or atheist will say "we do not know yet. But we are trying to." While the religious folk say "god did it." without any kind of argument or evidence provided. You see the difference there? One claims ignorance while trying to remedy that. The other claims knowledge it doesn't have.
   Still, science has come a long way to explaining the origins of the world and universe in general, there are several hypothosese which are being researched as we speak. However, this research is incredibly complex, so even if it is proven how the universe came to be, most (religious) people wouldn't even be able to understand the explanation.
   Personally, I quite like the hypothesis of the universe being a quantum space bubble. It is still far from being proven or disproven.

hmm...isnt that a bit contradictory? you say you "don't 'believe' in science" but conclude that you believe that scientists will be able to unravel the truth in the future? if you dont believe in science,how can you believe that scientists will justify your beliefs?
its true that science has come a long way to explaining the origin of the world,lots of discoveries were made...now the pattern,function and structure of dna are all known(the function of Trna is still a mystery however) and scientists were able to come to a conclusion that all cells can be classified as prokaryotic or eukaryotic....even the origins of mitochondria and chloroplasts were discovered,however one thing remains unknown,how did the complex dna pattern form? and this is where we argue...scientists were unable to explain this,and until they do,i'm sorry i cant take science as logic....the human mind is limited,believing in god isnt an "excuse" to explain things we cant comprehend,i believe that a more superior/complex mind created this world.....

but you do have a good argument 🙂

Quote from sarah-eats-cupcakes

hmm...isnt that a bit contradictory? you say you "don't 'believe' in science" but conclude that you believe that scientists will be able to unravel the truth in the future? if you dont believe in science,how can you believe that scientists will justify your beliefs?

Atheists believe in reasoning and evidence, not necessarily science. Science just provides such.

As much as I'd love to go into debating and arguing on a pointless matter because everyone is too stubborn to submit to the opposing view, I'll just suggest that you take a Philosophy of Religion course at least once in your lifetime. It's amazing stuff. And you learn how to argue more coherently whether you do or do not believe in a god.

Fun fact: Christians are just as atheistic as atheists. Know why? You just believe in one more god than we do.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/OkzQ4.png[/img]

Quote from sarah-eats-cupcakes

hmm...isnt that a bit contradictory? you say you "don't 'believe' in science" but conclude that you believe that scientists will be able to unravel the truth in the future? if you dont believe in science,how can you believe that scientists will justify your beliefs?

You can't "believe in science" the same way you believe in religion. Science is about making observations through repeatable experiments and drawing conclusions based on that. You don't have to "believe in it" to see results.

If you mix two compounds together under the same conditions and they do the same thing 1000 times in a row, it's likely they'll do it again. "Believing" they will is completely different from believing a bearded white guy created the universe a few thousand years ago (contrary to all observable evidence).

its true that science has come a long way to explaining the origin of the world,lots of discoveries were made...now the pattern,function and structure of dna are all known(the function of Trna is still a mystery however) and scientists were able to come to a conclusion that all cells can be classified as prokaryotic or eukaryotic....even the origins of mitochondria and chloroplasts were discovered,however one thing remains unknown,how did the complex dna pattern form? and this is where we argue...scientists were unable to explain this,and until they do,i'm sorry i cant take science as logic....the human mind is limited,believing in god isnt an "excuse" to explain things we cant comprehend,i believe that a more superior/complex mind created this world.....
but you do have a good argument 🙂

You're using the old "specified complexity" argument. In other words, "it's too complicated to have popped out of thin air, so god made it". To answer your question, a complex DNA pattern didn't form. Something simpler formed and this, step by step, lead to something more complex.

Besides, a few hundred years ago people didn't know how lightning was made, so they assumed it was because a guy was up in the clouds chucking lightning bolts at us...maybe it's better to withhold judgement until science comes up with a decent answer? And then still withhold judgement, because it'll keep looking for alternatives.

"It is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

I believe in my own God, but I don't believe in any Religion (I feel they are just like fairy tale from the past, no offence), in practical I don't believe any kind of supernatural things like ghost stories, satan, demon, evil spirits.

I also don't believe in life after death (heaven or hell), this concept was created in medieval age to prevent crimes.
since I was brought up as a christian,I know in some church they preach that a christian should convert people as "fruit" of their life work, otherwise they wont be accepted in heaven.

I simply don't like the idea that we (human) are forced to lead honest life just because the bible said so and also that we want to be accepted in heaven, like people who donates thinking about good debt, this is so WRONG.

I live the way I'm now, because that I'm just a human, I have my guilty conscience, my sympathy toward another human, If I'm about to help another people it came from the bottom of my heart, NOT because the religion teach me so or that because I wish for something in afterlife.

God in my vision is a being with higher science level, something that we cant even imagine.

up till this point scientist has many theories about how our universe are created (big bang theory), but still no one can answer why?? for what reason?? that's I would like to know 🙄

so Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic? 🤣

"we are people because of other people"
"I am who I am because of who we all are"

There's nothing that could really sway me. I dont believe in religion, I would like to believe that maybe there is some sort of reincarnation or other event that would make death a little more interesting, but I seriously doubt it.

Even if someone were to brainwash me into being religious, I would still fight against it.
And if god were to come down in front of me to prove his existence, I would ask him this: If we are truly your children and your creations, then why do you send messages only to a few chosen favourites, with orders to fight those of other faith/religion to convert them? If there really was a god, being omni-everything and all, it would make more sense for him to sit back and just enjoy his work and let them be what they are, and not cause billions of deaths over him.

Religion is reason for almost every war ever recorded in history. It causes more pain and suffering than it brings happiness. I want no part of it.

From the manga: Good Luck, Demon King!

okay so ppl will keep quoting what i say,giving me reasons why they believe im wrong,and i'll keep stubbornly insisting that god exists .this is MY belief ,you have your own beliefs and i have mine .
you disagree with me because to you my beliefs are illogical and vice versa
and i dont know how to say this but,i cant imagine being in distress and not feel the urge to pray to god,this is called faith,i just cant explain it.
my point is faith is the belief in something that you cannot prove or measure.
faith is beyond reason, So whats the point arguing back and forth about religion?
It's like arguing about Politics,everybody has their one thoughts ,noones going to win.

Quote from bajuwa

If there really was a god, being omni-everything and all, it would make more sense for him to sit back and just enjoy his work and let them be what they are, and not cause billions of deaths over him.

that's exactly my belief of God.

God description in bible makes me irritated, how can omnipotent being getting angry over every single thing. Its like that He is just like those resident of mt Olympus.

"we are people because of other people"
"I am who I am because of who we all are"

Quote from bajuwa

If there really was a god, being omni-everything and all, it would make more sense for him to sit back and just enjoy his work and let them be what they are, and not cause billions of deaths over him.

Religion is reason for almost every war ever recorded in history. It causes more pain and suffering than it brings happiness. I want no part of it.

just because someone says they believe in god doesnt mean its true,alot of ppl use religion as an excuse for murder,only someone who lacks conscious would kill.

are you saying religious people who has killed aren't truly believe in God?? don't be so naive

For some people their faith toward their God is the main drive why they are able commit such horrible deed, its their blind faith which was abused.

"we are people because of other people"
"I am who I am because of who we all are"

Quote from sarah-eats-cupcakes

only someone who lacks conscious would kill.

Not necessarily. To kill or not to kill is a whole another can of worms.
Just watch 'The Law Abiding Citizen'.

There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.

Quote from Domonkazu

so Am I An Atheist Or An Agnostic? 🤣

From how you describe your stance, you sound like an agnostic theist like myself.

You might be a bit more of a weak agnostic though. Just guessing.

You guys should check out the terms weak agnosticism, strong agnosticism, weak atheist, and strong atheist on wiki. The descriptions are adequate enough, considering that a lot of us are confusing agnosticism with weak atheism. (Not you specifically, Domonkazu.)

Can someone lock this already? Talking about religion is never good on an online forum, as shown. It allows for too much rage and butthurt.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/OkzQ4.png[/img]