D.J. Milky...

shudder

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Quote from bully_jesus

Edit: and although i hate to not be on the same side as Stealth, i think that the uniqness of japanese manga due to a differant cultural heritage is not true for many manga.
lets start with the most famous of all, DragonBall. Don't see much there. Or such famous new ones as Blame!/Bleach/20th century boys/Monster/......
sure, high school mangas/slice of life are different due to different high school systems/ differant goverment and different culture, but a lot of manga could pretty much come from anywhere.

Many japanese mangas feed very heavily from "western" cultur, such things as cowboys, blues, jazz, rock, angels, ..... are all imports. Hell, manga started after the american soldiers brought comics to japan. Its all a big mix up. What goes round comes round.

P.S. And i personnally am not a big fan of the name endings.

Lol, you know we can't always agree on everything.
And yeah, manga, was heavily influenced by comics to begin with, that much is true. But it developed it's own unique style, which made it interesting. On the other hand OEL manga is just blatant ripoff, they're not even trying to develop any sense of originality. Actually they're just aiming at all the manga clichés and using them. kinda stupid imho.

And yes, many manga feed heavily from western culture... but they're only doing it the way a western writer feed from Norse, Greek or Egyptian mythology...
You know when you read a manga about angels and demons... It's just used as an extra element of fiction, and it certainly done in a way too different manner than it would have been done by westerners. I don't know how to explain it, but a lot of people sensed it: There is a totally different atmosphere.

@SirGir, hein? D.J. Milky?!?!

Quote from ranmaru

Reader Beware, always check the Author's name before you check anything about the book. if you find any trace for american you should refrain from touching the book. 🤣 I read that somewhere

🤣 That's what I always do, or I judge by the character's names 😃 Like if their name is something like Jung-Woo that means it's most likely manhwa or if it's Mizuki that means it's most likely manga 🤣 Something along those lines.

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Quote from barbapapa

People can create whatever they want, it's their god given right.
What I DO think is ridiculous, is the term "OEL Manga".

That's like labelling yourself "faker" right from the start.

haha, so true

bay the way, i went to a anime at the berlin film festival, and after the movie the director and 4 or 5 other important people showed up. And i dodn't believe it, the director was american! Andy something, and he was so completly white new yorker. Ok, he had lived in japan a long time and was a big manga and anime fan ( duuh )
but anyway, it was a really good anime ( tekonkinkreet or something like that it was called ).

Quote from bully_jesus
Edit: and although i hate to not be on the same side as Stealth, i think that the uniqness of japanese manga due to a differant cultural heritage is not true for many manga.
lets start with the most famous of all, DragonBall. Don't see much there. Or such famous new ones as Blame!/Bleach/20th century boys/Monster/......
sure, high school mangas/slice of life are different due to different high school systems/ differant goverment and different culture, but a lot of manga could pretty much come from anywhere.

Many japanese mangas feed very heavily from "western" cultur, such things as cowboys, blues, jazz, rock, angels, ..... are all imports. Hell, manga started after the american soldiers brought comics to japan. Its all a big mix up. What goes round comes round.

P.S. And i personnally am not a big fan of the name endings.

Lol, you know we can't always agree on everything.
And yeah, manga, was heavily influenced by comics to begin with, that much is true. But it developed it's own unique style, which made it interesting. On the other hand OEL manga is just blatant ripoff, they're not even trying to develop any sense of originality. Actually they're just aiming at all the manga clichés and using them. kinda stupid imho.

And yes, many manga feed heavily from western culture... but they're only doing it the way a western writer feed from Norse, Greek or Egyptian mythology...
You know when you read a manga about angels and demons... It's just used as an extra element of fiction, and it certainly done in a way too different manner than it would have been done by westerners. I don't know how to explain it, but a lot of people sensed it: There is a totally different atmosphere.

I am sure in the beginning japanese comics were just a pure rip off of Us comics, and then things evolved and after 30 years or so manga as we sort of know it surfaced. Things take time.
and i would say there have been good blends of eastern and western, animatrix for example, or kill bill had some pretty nice anime parts, wolverine snikt was pretty good.
I know this is besides the point, but i still think its very dissapointing that maybe 1 % of manga and anime figures have a even slightly asian look. I know manga eyes are big to show emotion, and that hair colors can be anything, but still, most of the characters are so white in the US they would be forced to introduce minority ratings. Jin Roh is till date the only anime i know with true asian figures.

Quote from bully_jesus

I am sure in the beginning japanese comics were just a pure rip off of Us comics, and then things evolved and after 30 years or so manga as we sort of know it surfaced. Things take time.
and i would say there have been good blends of eastern and western, animatrix for example, or kill bill had some pretty nice anime parts, wolverine snikt was pretty good.
I know this is besides the point, but i still think its very dissapointing that maybe 1 % of manga and anime figures have a even slightly asian look. I know manga eyes are big to show emotion, and that hair colors can be anything, but still, most of the characters are so white in the US they would be forced to introduce minority ratings. Jin Roh is till date the only anime i know with true asian figures.

Yes they probably where blatant rip off in the beginnings, and they probably sucked just as much... So as long as OEL Manga is still unoriginal, it will still suck just as much. (At least imo)

And I have my own explanation to the big-eyed-multicolored-haired manga phenomenon: Japanese all have the same small black eyes, and the same straight black hair. Not much variety there. That's why they seek that variety in their manga. Although I love their hair... That doesn't seem to be their case.

Oh and sorry ladybrasa, It seems that because of me this topic is kinda turning into OEL manga bashing. (at least I was the one that started it) But I was just stating my opinion.

Quote from Stealth

@SirGir, hein? D.J. Milky?!?!

I take that that means you don't know who "he" is? Ah well, I guess everyone ought to know so here goes:

DJ Milky is an fabricated OEL manga author.
"He" is a marketing ploy created by Stu Levy (Tokyopop CEO) to sell OEL mangas aimed at teenagers. "He" talks "street" (*i create. i chill. i bug. i trip. so don't hate. word. *) and apparently writes "poetry" too. "His" name is attached to Princess Ai, Juror 13, and others.

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When i read OEL manga it doesn't feel like manga just based off of manga style. Just as Korean manhwa to me has a different drawing style to it as Japanese manga, so does OEL manga. I also think that the OEL's stories are usually not as compelling as in traditional manga.

You know when people diss cartoons becasue it's too "child-like" thus they like anime. So far that's what most OEL's feel like for me from the ones i've read. Also they appear to be drawn more like "anime style" and less like "manga style". All the titles i've read use too much tones which bothers me as well.

I've read Dramacon and Peach Fuzz from TOKYOPOP. And i've read Last Hope and Amazing Agent Luna from Seaven Seas.

I don't have a problem with OEL manga if the manga artists are intending it to be less like manga and more like a twist on it. But if they think their stuff is anything like original Japanese manga then i would have to disagree.

Oh and i also know a OEL manga artist but I won't say who cause if she knew my true feelings she might be angry 🤢

Save a Starving Artist - Feed them Ramen

Waugghh! Too much to quote! And I'm tired, long day at work. blah.

Well I did after all ask for opinions! 😃

And I do see everyones' points and agree with many. I really do agree many of the OELs are not very good. As mentioned, over-toned, thick line usage makes it look 'american' or more like anime than manga (hence the show Kappa Mikey parody with super thick lines). Many are clearly trying to pander to the market and Tokyopop is just choosing american authors/artists willy-nilly. BTW, I thought DJ Milky is the CEO or whatever of Tokyopop? But I still like Drama-Con 😛 And I read Peach-Fuzz as well, but didn't continue because she was being violent with the ferret >:-(
I thought 'big eyes' in manga and anime were influenced by Betty Boop??
And alot of the artists are so fresh and unschooled compared to Japanese manga-ka who may work for years making manga.
I am thinking that alot of negativity for OELs stems for the poor-quality selection; if high quality OELs were published that were well-written with good artwork I think alot of people would at least think they were okay.
And I don't really know how to refer to what we're talking about - OEL manga? world manga? global manga? amerimanga? They all sound a little cheesy. There's manga, manwha, and manhua; should it be called mang-us? man-erica? Silliness 😛
I guess ultimately for myself I judge each OEL case by case - many I don't like for art, story, or genre, but a few I do like!
Anyway, Sorry for this rambley post! 🙁

Quote from ladybrasa

And I don't really know how to refer to what we're talking about - OEL manga? world manga? global manga? amerimanga? They all sound a little cheesy. There's manga, manwha, and manhua; should it be called mang-us? man-erica? Silliness 😛

Technically OEL Manga means "Original English Language" Manga. So anything that is written and made by those who speak English or is first printed in English is an OEL Manga. At least this is how I understand it.

Save a Starving Artist - Feed them Ramen

The problem with a lot of them is they're done by people who don't know how to draw or they're made solely to get money from the manga-reader demographic. I haven't really seen any I enjoy, but I'm open to the idea of westerners drawing in the style (as long as they don't overuse chibis, giant sweatbeads, and angry veins... seriously, they seem to be used WAY more often in OEL manga than in Japanese or Korean comics and it feels awkward and unnatural).

EDIT: ...but it seems those points were already addressed. Aw well. :/

[quote=Stealth]

Quote from bully_jesus

Yes they probably where blatant rip off in the beginnings, and they probably sucked just as much... So as long as OEL Manga is still unoriginal, it will still suck just as much. (At least imo)

Ok, that makes sense.

Quote from Stealth

And I have my own explanation to the big-eyed-multicolored-haired manga phenomenon: Japanese all have the same small black eyes, and the same straight black hair. Not much variety there. That's why they seek that variety in their manga. Although I love their hair... That doesn't seem to be their case.

Well, they just don't add varierty, that completly remove the original. In a way i find it just as creepy as the US superhero comics that draw all main characters as either super muscular manly men or women supermodels with huge boobs.

Back to the topic of OEL manga, it makes sense that a lot of them suck. The OEL manga artists are a small still unexperienced group. Don't forget, we here outside japan only get the best of mangas, the at least pretty succesful ones. The ten best of a thousand. We don't even know the mediocore or even bad manga.

Its sort of like comparing Liverpool bands to your loval village music scene by comparing your brothers band with the Beatles. Does anybody get what i mean?

Quote from sakura_tenshi

Technically OEL Manga means "Original English Language" Manga. So anything that is written and made by those who speak English or is first printed in English is an OEL Manga. At least this is how I understand it.

Yeah, I knew that. 😀 That's my understanding of its meaning as well. I just mean there seems not to be one agreed-upon word to describe manga-style comics outside Japan. (and they all don't sound quite right or cheesy). OEL is just easier to type, too. 😛

First of all the culture thing doesn't really have a huge impact on the manga so that doesn't make a huge difference. Also, there are lots of well written comics in America (fables, sandman, 100 bullets, etc...) and there is lots of great artists in America too (Steve McNiven, Mike Deodata etc...) so the talent in America is on par or maybe even greater than Japan. I think the problem is that companies like TokyoPop are trying to take advantage of the growing manga fad by producing any kind of crap they can get their hands on to make a couple of extra bucks and since the more talented artists and writers are joining companies like Vertigo, DC and Marvel cause the pay is MUCH better, oel manga is mostly left with struggling and not as talented people (no offence). However there have been a few heavily manga influenced graphic novels in America that are good like Scott Pilgrim (highly recommended). I think that when manga becomes a more lucrative genre in America, which it's slowly becoming, more talented people will jump on the band wagon and oel manga will become much better than the state thats it's currently in.

Don't know if anyone is really interested ....

It seems more companies in the US are getting involved with non-Japanese manga. I was reading ANN's notes from Anime Expo.

• Seven Seas is of course forging ahead in the world manga area. One of their manga "Hollow Fields" by Madeleine Rosca won the "nobel prize" of manga award from Japan.
  -Aurora Publishing which is new and will be releasing Japanese manga of the josei and yaoi genres, will also get into world manga.
  -Go! Comi is looking for original submissions and are also hosting the web-comic Masque of the "Red Death by Wendy Pini", and "Japan Ai" by Amy Major-Steinberger
• CMX said "open to the idea of original series like Megatokyo but is not actively seeking submissions"
  -Apparently there exists a company called Yaoi Press that only has world manga (I hadn't heard of this)
  From the ANN website (summary by Carlo Santos)
  "The growth of manhwa, OEL and other non-Japanese works also show new possibilities. Thompson felt that this globalization of manga as a worldwide culture could be a boost to popularity. However, title recognition could be an issue—many of these non-Japanese products are simply not widely known. Abraham noted that Yaoi Press, which specializes in original yaoi titles, often experienced a stigma from elitist Japanese-only fans—in fact, even more so than Tokyopop. In recent years, however, there has been more acceptance from fans towards global works.
  Wise added that "OEL manga" was a poor label, implying mindless imitation of manga. "Manga ai" (love of manga; a manga influence) was a better descriptor: "It's all comics. Manga just means comics." Furthermore, the hair-splitting over what can be called manga was considered mostly a futile exercise, with printing presses in China, international artists selling in Japan, Japanese and global artists collaborating, and so on. "
• A company called eigoManga will be doing a manga-style version of "The Last Unicorn"

Also, "MegaTokyo" is going to be published in Japan. That's pretty neat that a manga-style comic is going over to Japan. Are there any other titles that have done so? (Not talking about Marvel, etc stuff)

I hope that, if 'world manga' starts becoming more and more prevalent, that some of them are good quality!!

First up I read the thread. I feel something’s said by a few true.
The Japanese manga began for most around the end of the Second World War. Astro boy and the bits after by the same author are good. His rant in the back of his books updates say a lot to.

The style used is very hard, since they draw to a different model to what is seen by the eye. All those how to drawn manga book are a rip off of something. Cross’s, pentacle’s, 13 and any other western thing. It is used often times to pock fun in some way at the west. When compared with a couple of thoughts that we all outside of Japan don't or won't think of. The writer/artist is doing this to a live list. They 'the company' those who sell have a requirements they have to be met, they have to put out, on time or not get paid. Manga is a weekly, bi weekly or monthly thing, rarely do they get the leeway those in other contraries get when putting out a story/art.

More people want the style and it is growing. Many place around the world are seeing a surge of this type of drawing as apposed to comic art from say America. Some would say it is a style that is evolving. It is but to look at what is manga style outside Japan and home grown titles. There is a type of pulp comics in each contrary. But America flooded they western world with it Archie’s, Spiderman, the oldest superman.

It is just another style to be used by them to be used yet again.

Hope it made some sense as I am trying to keep it short. 😀 In the end it is just manga is asian.

love and peace