New Poll - Problematic Love Interests
1 month ago
Posts: 1223
Yes. I do not belive that fictional stories should ever be blamed for what people do when reading them. Nor should actual historical documents really. A person must be able to separate what they read and reality. I have read Mein Kampf. Didn't turn into a nazi. I have read the bible. Didn't turn christian. I have read parts of the koran. Didn't turn muslim. I have read, and watched many stories involving underaged kids involved in various degrees of romance, didn't turn pedophile. I have watched many, many films with very problematic themes. Didn't turn into a killer, rapist, ku klux klan member (The Birth of a Nation, which by the way according to the link you provided is based on actual historical events, NOT pure fiction), or homocidal clown. I have played violent games for the better part of 35 years. Didn't turn into a mass murderer. I played Rapelay. Didn't turn into a rapist. If someone acts on a fictional thing that they have experienced, it should not be blamed on the fictional thing. Not saying that some content isn't problematic. But the real problem is why some people act on it. Not the content itself. Separation of fiction and real life should maybe be a mandatory subject in school.
~4400 manga completed
~1700 ongoing...
1 month ago
Posts: 554
Quote from Aremon
Yes. I do not belive that fictional stories should ever be blamed for what people do when reading them.
That is a completely different, separate, and irrelevant issue. It has nothing to do with anything that has been said, here.
I have read Mein Kampf. Didn't turn into a nazi.
...and therefore, you think Mein Kampf isn't an immoral text, or that people who praise it, should be condemned.
That's what you're saying, right now.
Reading it, for its historical value and the like, with full awareness of the fact that its message is abhorrent and immoral, is all well and good
...but reading it, because you agree with its message, is very different, and to be condemned.
In my opinion, but not yours.
Me enjoying, for example, ITOU Hachi's works, despite a lot of them involving relations between a loli and an older girl, is one thing.
Someone enjoying works with loli-adult relations, because they involve loli-adult relations (the specific case I said should be condemned), is a completely different thing.
I have read the bible. Didn't turn christian.
Well no, of course not. Reading holy texts (properly, not just one or two cherry-picked verses), usually has the opposite effect.
watched many stories involving underaged kids involved in various degrees of romance, didn't turn pedophile.
No, but if you watch those stories, and liked them, specifically because of wanting to see romance/sex with underaged characters...
It's not what they turn you into, but what you liking that, says about what kind of person you are, and already were, even before reading/watching it.
I have played violent games for the better part of 35 years. Didn't turn into a mass murderer.
As I've said, killing isn't inherently/automatically immoral or unjustifiable.
It depends.
Paedophilia, incest, or rape, however, is never good/okay/justifiable(well, unknowingly getting into incestuous relationship/acts, is obviously nothing anyone can be blamed for)
...though rape roleplay is fine.
(and rape porn could be kinda seen as that, in a way, depending on how it's handled. Having rape in a general story, which is treated as anything other than atrocious, however...)
If someone acts on a fictional thing that they have experienced, it should not be blamed on the fictional thing.
Again: Irrelevant. That has nothing to do with anything that has been said, here.
Also untrue. Sure, pedo works wont make you a pedo
...but propaganda can absolutely encourage harmful beliefs/attitudes. Even nudge people towards bigotry/extremism. This is a well established and inarguable fact.
Not saying that some content isn't problematic.
Yes you are.
That is EXACTLY what you are saying.
You've said:
"Never really thought of anything FICTIONAL as immoral really."
I.e. not ANY fictional content.
And
"So I still don't think that someone should be condemned or disliked for enjoying FICTIONAL content created to entertain."
No caveats. On the contrary, making it clear you mean ALL cases.
Meaning that someone who enjoys lolicon/shotacon, because they like to jerk off to depictions of sexualized children (sure plenty of works that have loli/shota, or massive age gaps, aren't so bad as to be sexual/porn, but... If you say all, that includes the most extreme/terrible, so...), or who enjoy content that is praising/propagandising nazism, racism, homophobia, sexism or the like, because they agree with that, and they like to hate on minorities, or like the Nazis etc, shouldn't be condemned for that.
That is exactly what you've said.
Separation of fiction and real life should maybe be a mandatory subject in school.
You don't get to talk about how people should consider context and nuance, given that you are the one who has ignored any semblance of it ...whilst arguing with those who clearly actually do address it.
1 month ago
Posts: 9
I find myself judging the people who picked the "I like all romance" option on the poll more than the people who picked the "I hate all romance" option.
"Childhood friend" doesn't seem problematic in comparison with the other options. "Non-blood related siblings", although weird, is mostly fine tbh.
1 month ago
Posts: 554
Quote from Bolt M.
"Childhood friend" doesn't seem problematic in comparison with the other options.
In comparison? So you find it at least a bit problematic, then? How? Why?
1 month ago
Posts: 3
There is definitely nothing problematic about "Childhood friend".
"Non-blood related sibling" depends on the context. If they're, like, two teenagers or adults that just happened to get roped into the same family by their parents' marriage, then they wouldn't truly see each other as siblings. At least not on a subconscious level, as their "siblinghood" is only something fabricated in this case. So falling for each other wouldn't necessarily make them sick or anything.
1 month ago
Posts: 9
I realise it's mostly how I perceive "Childhood friend" romances in anime/manga and it isn't inherent within the genre itself but I always feel like they're basically just "nice guy" romances.
The guys have nothing going for them, usually are losers and unlikable and it's usually a +rich +cute +popular girl. They share nothing in common usually and have no personal chemistry outside of a shared history, with the guy "saving" the girl in the past or something.
1 month ago
Posts: 554
Quote from Bolt M.
but I always feel like they're basically just "nice guy" romances.
...
When someone says "nice guy" with scare quotes, that usually means "someone acting as if they're nice, whilst not really being nice".
Your definition of "nice guy" romances, is one I've never ever heard of, and which no one uses.
The guys have nothing going for them, usually are losers and unlikable and it's usually a +rich +cute +popular girl.
...
That is sometimes true, in manga/anime, but most of the time when I've encountered "childhood friend" romances, that has not been the case
...and most cases of where that is true, they're not childhood friends.
Regardless: It has nothing to do with them being childhood friends.


