I don't have that much money too but I'd sell my last pair of underware to buy a paper version of a volume of Genshiken or Aria or some other manga I really like.

If I had them sold at a local bookstore, that is.

________________
Don't waste your time or time will waste you.

Lets just pretend to live in azerbaijan or so... -.-

Seriousliy: I think another reason to read scanlated manga / watch fansubbed anime is that you don't have to wait for broadcasting companies or publishers to release the manga/anime because they often are way behind the japanese releases...

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Es gibt noch ein paar ziemlich grosse verleger

Egmont Manga
panini comics ( planet manga )
tokyo pop

I weiss nicht genau was du für comics magst, aber viele sachen sind wirklich da
z.B. Naruto, Bleach hat gerade angefangen, GTO komplett, Blame! komplett, Akira komplett, Naru Taru, Blade of the Immortal, EDEN, also eigentlich alle wirklich beliebten. Death Note, Gantz gibts bisher nur 5 bände,
es gibt noch weit mehr als die grossen serien. Kannst du im Internet checken.

BACK TO ENGLISH
Sometimes things are out quicker in Germany than in the USA i think. Couldn't really prove it though.

Besides the comparisin to murder, there is a very big flaw in this post.

What manga isn't licensed? All professional manga ( 99% ) is licensed. Its just in japanese. And since you can get japanese books shipped wherever you want, there is no unlicensed Manga out there by your definition.

That's a bit too much to compare piracy to murder. Certainly some people are hurt by it (especially smaller comanies) but it's not like unloading a gun into someone's head. Back to the topic of licensed manga, I find it funny that some scanlation groups do better work than certain American publishers. Tokyopop especially does horrible work sometimes and I can't stand how they handle the covers. Quite frankly I could care less for the publishing companies. All I care about is the actual artist getting compensation for his work. When you d/l either unlicensed scanslations or outright licensed scans, the artist gets nothing (just maybe more recognition and an increase in his/her fanbase). I also can't stand downloading something that is pure crap much less dishing out $10-$15 for it. I say if you read something you like, support the artist by either buying the original japanese version or the english version.

That's exactly what I'm saying.

A better analogy would be like pharmaceutical companies spent millions of $ for research, development and trials to end up with a drug. The product is protect by law that is recognized and adopted world wide. So under the patent laws no other company in the world may produce a generic form (cheaper) of the drug for X amount of year to ensure the return capital covers the cost of drug development for that particular company.

I see manga/book/movie production very much the same, just on a smaller scale without international laws to protect the creations from exploitation, whether or not the manga is pure garbage is irrelevant.

Did anyone ask the manga production company the rights to scan and distribute? Did anyone ask the TV networks for the rights to air TV shows on youtube? This is the grey area of the laws, but remember this, denying what's false, doesn't mean it's the truth.

I also take back what I said in the first sentence in my last post, since I contradicted myself later on.

Now if excuse me, the new eyesheild 216 is calling...

You know, you couldn't have chosen a more controversial example than pharmaceuticals...
You know how many people are DYING everyday in Africa because they can't afford drugs that could have been produced 20x cheaper? So what are you exactly comparing to murder? Buying licensed manga or refusing to sell drugs to people in need?

Are you trying go off topic?

People dying in Africa because of the economic status has nothing to do licensing of any product. This thread is about ownership of goods, the laws which that is protected and the extent which it does it, that's what licensing is.

I was merely comparing the laws that protects the pharmaceutical companies and the manga production companies. Whether or not a new pain killer that cause 99% increase in suicidal ideations due to failed adverse side effects screening tests is irrelevant, patent still covers for such drug for x amount of years although it's withdrawn from the market.


Just putting it in context:
Distributions of licensed manga is like selling home made drugs to those in Africa to cut cost, both from some kind of reseller, whether the actions were authorized depending on licensing laws and the extend that it is monitored, as I state previously all a great chunk of grey matter aka ambiguous.

edit: Licensing is about money and protection for companies, never about the individuals at the other end.


Last edited by coorrel at 8:36 am, Jan 6 2007

I'm not trying to go off-topic, just trying to explain to you that this world isn't manichean you know... Things aren't always either black or white. Western cultures has the bad habit of always dividing stuff as pure Evil or pure Good. Such things don't exist.
So comparing downloading licensed manga and murder or even comparing it to normal theft is wrong. Well that's my opinion anyway.
You're free to think what you like, but you should try to look at the big picture more often.

Hey Coorrel,
i get you point. The medicin example fits pretty well.
All scanslation goes against the idea of intelectual property. It is ripping somebodys work without his consent.

But, economicly, scanslation distibution in countries with no legal translations does little harm. The same way it schouldn't harm the pharma Industry to much to sell stuff cheap to poor people, if they had no way of buying the product at its original price.

@bully_jesus
The point I'm defending is: Clearly things are done without consent from original owners of such property but due to inadequate laws to govern such actions we will continue to do so, that's all.
I'm not saying that this is illegal by law and don't mean to sound like we should stop continue to download our beloved mangas, just common sense and reasoning leads me to believe that this is a form of theft as I doubt any manga production company will authorise scanlation and distribution in another language for free and people downloading should recognise that part at the very least.



I don't believe I've said any thing that's really black and white, just factual information.


First of all I'm Chinese born and raised, even if I wasn't don't base your rebuttals based on your assumptions from your own beliefs.


Stopping downloading movies and mp3 and comparing them to theft of cars, TVs, and robbery, has already being widely promoted in the movies industry. Murder is bit extreme, but my comparison is only based on other media copyright laws which just began to be enforced.


Contradictory to your own assumption about western cultures which you've already enclosed yourself in a nutshell. You should try to look at the big picture more often.

Man I never said YOU where western... I said western culture... and you see I guessed way before writing that that you where probably asian... (Time zones you know according to your time you are in gmt +10 or 9).
I just said that it is in western culture to think like that. That's why you of all people shouldn't have that same vision. But I guess MacDonalds are open everywhere now, so the western culture has spread way beyon what you imagine.
oh and this:

we call it Argumentum ad populum
I don't recall ever saying that I though that comparing downloading music to theft was right either right?
Anyway let's cool this down OK? We are both on the same side after all. (Or supposed to be)

More Latin?
What school did you go to Stealth?

just by the way, this topic sort of always pops up again on manga/scanslation forums. It is the "be or not to Be" of scanslation.

Last edited by bully_jesus at 1:47 pm, Jan 6 2007

I'm cool, just informing others about the complications involving ownership, consent and laws which people should be aware of.

Interesting fact of the day: Manga can counterfeited from illegal printing presses, cover art and color is not as bright, pages drawings can be slanted sometimes and the book bind come loose sometimes as well.

i think its alright to scan licensed manga as long as its not yet published, cos not only cant u dl it to read, u cant even buy it yet

________________
Name: Bikuki
Date Of Birth: xx/xx/19xx
Location: XX
From: The Place That Rhymes With China.