that sounds good but I don't believe that happens everywhere because some farmers/countries are so dependent on the money which they receive because of that....and my point was that there would be more food for people if less animals were kept because the cultivation would directly be used for food not via the animal. And not just because of the land rotation.

that is true. I didn't see those things in person and it also could be that those which I have seen in videos are extreme examples. But when I go to a supermarket and see that I can buy meat for 2 euro I think that it is just weird. This meat just cannot be that cheap if the animals would be kept like in the past...
Oh yeah I would like that

it has nothing to do with feeling cornered or offended- from my personal experience EVERY vegan i have met has had a 'better than you' attitude. they were all from well off households, they were all 'hipster' in attire, they all LOVED to participate in pointless fake activism such as the occupy movement or kony 2012 nonsense. from my experience they were ALL just pampered suburban punks who want to be part of something bigger- attaching themselves to every activist like movement or cause possible to feel like they are making a difference- they are just the worst type of people. and i hate that.



organic farming just produces too little of a yeild at too high of a price

here is a quote from Nobel Prize-winning plant breeder Norman Borlaug: "We aren't going to feed 6 billion people with organic fertilizer, If we tried to do it, we would level most of our forest and many of those lands would be productive only for a short period of time."
Cambridge chemist John Emsley put it more bluntly: "The greatest catastrophe that the human race could face this century is not global warming but a global conversion to ‘organic farming'-an estimated 2 billion people would perish."

randomreader

throwing in nobel prize winners dont really mean anything or win any argument

al the fucking gore have won one for gods sake and nelson mandela too
and neither of them are interested in peace or the wellfare of fellow human beings

dalai lama...he wants to rule poor uneducated/brainwashed budhist slaves who worrship him as a god so that he can live in luxury...omg how can they give that prize to such horrible ppl

hmm this turned into idiots who have one the peace prize...
well ok
in 2001 most of "big" nobel prize winners of that year was having a very serious discussion on how 90% of the earth will be covered in water by 2008

that just shows that most of them...are idiots and have no idea of how the world/water lvls work in the actual world

so dont put money on anything those fuckheads say
coz its most likely lies told to promote their own research or just ignorace about how the world actually functions
or they as everyone else are trapped/scared by the constant lies from media


aso aso

im not actualy a vegetarian...and i agree with what alot of u say that most come of as arrogant fucks who think they know better and therfore must tell you how much you fail at life
but...elitism is built up like this isnt it
this is how the world works
so...u cant really complain
w/e

Ah ok if you met only vegans that are like that than I understand why you have a bad opinion of them. But really not everyone is like that. Just because you have met only "rich hipster vegans" doesn't mean that all vegans are like that. You can hate the person but not the group because of one individual.

To the subject of the nobel prize winner: I am no peasant nor studied biology but I could believe that one would have to cultivate a lot of plants in order to get the same level of energy as from stockbreeding. I think I will look deeper in it. But why would the land only be productive for a short time if you change what you grow not to let it be unproductive?

@taopaipai
holy shit- sorry for thinking an accomplished professional PLANT BREEDER would know about the output of different fertilizers.

at this point it is pretty much common knowledge how inefficient organic farming is. i dont give a crap about the nobel prize- at this point it holds no value; my point was that the guy knows what the hell he's talking about. organic farming can only produce so much- and the amount we need is more than 3 times what organic farming can produce even under ideal circumstances- this is a scientific and biological FACT.

@zeillah
it wasnt just one guy- it has been literally every vegan i have ever met. between the dozens in real life and all the nuts online. you have to be financially well off in order to afford that lifestyle.

Last edited by randomreader at 5:23 am, Nov 4 2012

Personally, I don't have anything against vegetarians (though every vegan I've met were assholes who thought they were all high and mighty just because they didn't eat meat) but I wouldn't AND couldn't be one.
You see, I'm allergic to most veggies and fruits; carrots, apples, onions, tomatoes, leek, bananas, nuts, cocoa (I can't even eat chocolate) and the list goes on...
My diet is very limited even now and I think I would starve to death if I were a vegetarian.
I DO eat things like lettuce and mushrooms and occasionally even some fruits like mandarin but that's about it.
But that doesn't mean I just eat meat all the time!

thats exactly what i was saying.

Vegetarian.

And contrary to what some "carnivores" say, I find that they are the ones who act almost offended when I say I don't eat meat. So I can imagine why other vegetarians, especially vegans (and may god help you if you're a MALE vegan lol), can seem so defensive about it.

Ideally, it would be good to just eat whatever we want, and shut the eff up.

We should just eat people instead of animals. Soylent green style.

Longer span of growth does not make it a very frugal diet.



As for the topic, I am an omnivore. I feel no repentance eating other beings.
We're all part of the same deal, the weak are eaten by the strong.
While I do think that many things that food producers do aren't ethical, I don't see
why eating meat itself would be bad. I neither have time to feel guilty for something
that is natural when there are things far more dire in the world to worry about,
like the questionable fate of the human race this century and the whole ecosystem,
so yeah, I can eat a meatball.
Thinking of whether it is sinful to eat an animal is like you were worried of being nude when you're in a gas chamber.

Last edited by Mamsmilk at 8:36 am, Nov 4 2012

Not to mention that, altough it is possible to survive on human meat alone, eating only your own species meat might cause brain damage in long periods...


That's the "Mad Cow" syndrome,Some geniuses tough it was smart to feed cows with artificial food made out of cows.

vegan because theres absolutely no moral justification to kill and/or exploit another for pleasure

Ok, that's about as much as i'm holding back...


Vegetarianism is alright, but actually thinking you are been the better person or that "making the whole world veg" will be better is actually a REALLY ignorant thing to say...

With out going into the obvious mathematical proofs, because any kind of natural balance can be planted as an equation, that making such an enormous change in the ecosystem (which means system of balance and not "Natural System" as some people seem to think) will damage the world, it will also have obvious, as well, consequence for the population and quality of live of all livestock, or do you think that when people don't need them they will still be feed and taken care of?, and even if farmers WANTED to help all those animals it will be RIDICULOUS to even try, how could you feed 100.000 cows that are going to give you nothing and still not be on the reds? The poor fuckers will starve to dead (all this supposing that for some stupid reason everyone goes veg at the same time), (if it even went trough your head that those animals, that had evolved to be taken care of since the beginning of humanity, could ever take care of themselves then let me drop a bomb on you...)


Now, let's forget about all the poor animals that will have a much more painful and meaningless end that if been eaten... explain to me why a symbiotic relation such as taking milk from a cow is wrong? did you know that, as i said, this animals had evolved with us and if it wasn't milked by a farmer (yes even if it has a calf) it will end with an udder infection? an infection which will then kill his calf for the contamination of the milk.



Do you really think it's easy as "let's do the RIGHT thing and blah" "let's stop those EVIL guys and blah".

Let me tell you a real story, i live in Argentina and in some costs we have the wonderful chance of looking at whales during their emigration... lately whales have been showing themselves much less, once they will jump and splash in the surface, now they stay underwater most of the time... Now, you probably think is "Humans" doing but you are wrong, Seagulls had started to eat them alive whenever they show themselves, since they skin is so soft they can't protect themselves and ended up really hurt while out of the water.. now why do you think this started happening? It seems like there was a huge dumpster not far from that beach until some "Ecologist" group decided it wasn't "Eco friendly" and had it taken away, but alas that was where the seagulls used to feed at...

Do you see the point of that story? balance is not that easy to achieve, moving the dumpster away from a beach seamed like the right thing to do for those guys but they ended up affecting the balance and damaging the whales

Of-course i don't expect you to actually take my point when there is someone here who thinks he knows better than a botanic Novel Price because Algore Global warming and contamination studies weren't, in his opinion, worth his prize, but at least be realistic and stop thinking that you "just know better"


Last edited by BlackOrion at 1:27 am, Nov 8 2012

this is why i fucking hate vegans- that self-righteous, better than you attitude

just because you have enough money to support your decedent unnecessary diet you act all high and mighty- and think you are morally superior just because you dont fucking drink milk.

you are not 'saving the world'.
there is nothing 'morally wrong' with eating meat- its what we evolved to do.

you are nothing but a spoiled rich little punk who likes to pretend to be an activist- jumping on any moral bandwagon possible just to make your meaningless pitiful self feel better.

let me guess a couple things about you; you own a ton of apple products, you supported kony2012, you own a v for vendetta mask- which you probably wore to an 'occupy' protest. how do i know this? because thats the exact type of self-congratulating hipster pieces of shit vegans are. if you REALLY want to help the planet- then please just kill yourself.

Last edited by randomreader at 1:15 am, Nov 8 2012

Listen Random, it might be true that a person with a more realistic monetary background will have a better understanding of the benefits of a normal diet, but that doesn't mean that he is rich the moment he is a prick... sorry i meant vegan... You don't have the right to call him a little bitch because of his ideology, regardless of how much we might disagree with it.


Also, it's called a Guy Fawkes mask, i sure hope people will stop using it for their wanna be legion joint, since the man itself was an example of an activist for his dedication to his cause (not so much for his ideology, since that can be debated depending of your stand)