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Julian Assange and Wikileaks

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Julian Assange: A Hero For a New Age?
Yes.
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Post #430196 - Reply to (#430192) by tartufo
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insomniac Kagehime
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5:02 am, Dec 7 2010
Posts: 2707


Quote from tartufo
Julian Assange Arrested in London

Sorry to interrupt your discussion, guys (and just when I was about to join!). But it's finally happened. sad

Well, Assange had been negotiating with the so-called law about a planned surrender, so we'd seen this coming, but still. I am saddened. WikiLeaks will find a way to keep on going, I bet, but I'm disappointed that Assange has to spend his precious time battling fake allegations instead of continuing the good work that he's been doing.

I hope Assange can avoid getting extradited to Sweden for that bogus 'questioning' about those bogus 'allegations'. NOTE THAT HE HAS NOT ACTUALLY BEEN CHARGED WITH ANYTHING. Because, you know, there's nothing to charge him with. How ridiculous.

And all the while, Senator Droopy a.k.a. Joe Lieberman is trying to change existing laws regarding espionage just so he can make up something to charge Assange with. Whatcha gonna do, buddy? If it's illegal for Assange to publish documents that were leaked to him WITHOUT HIS ACQUIRING THEM (as in, he didn't actually do any spying himself), then isn't practically every news organization on EARTH also guilty for publishing leaked political and corporate scandals from anonymous-but-verified sources? Like, I dunno, the Washington Post with Deep Throat, their anonymous source in the cigarette industry, or CNN, or Fox, or any number of news organizations that have 'sources' that willingly provide them with information, that they then share with millions of viewers. You can prosecute the sources, Sen. Lieberman, but not the news-people who're just sharing the news. Or are you telling me that the channels who aired Osama's tapes aired less dangerous material than Assange's airing of international diplomats' somewhat snarky comments about each other?

Sheesh...

Wait, he hasn´t been arrested for wikileaks
Quote
"He is accused by the Swedish authorities of one count of unlawful coercion, two counts of sexual molestation and one count of rape, all alleged to have been committed in August 2010."

i don´t know if it´s a lie or not, but i think they wouldn´t use such crimes since the punishment for them would be way to harsh
Quote
A court in Stockholm issued an arrest warrant for Assange on November 18. His lawyers have said the case centres around consensual sex with two women.

They may couldn´t get him for wikileaks, but if he does something like that, well...

And why was he in London? Didn´t he want to go to Switzerland?

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Local Prig
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5:05 am, Dec 7 2010
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His lawyer's in London. Wikileaks' new host is located in Switzerland. There was information that he was in the UK beforehand.

Not surprised, doesn't affect things much anyway. Wikileaks is not Assange, he's just become its figurehead.

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7:16 am, Dec 7 2010
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Spamming for no reason with an old Colbert Report!

8'D

Man his hair is white.
I am reminded of...

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Post #430277
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1:20 pm, Dec 7 2010
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i don't think Assange would be assassinated because it's too late
remember Vanounou the journalist told him that his sole guarantee to stay alive is by going public
but he payed back by being imprisoned for treason

and here how it defers from the Assange case because he is not an american citizen and he didn't leak the document (Manning or someone else did it and manning is risking life imprisonment and he is truly a Hero because he risked his life for it)

And here where the Sexual Assault case come to be useful because there is no law that increment what wikileaks and Assange did they try to make an example of him and at the same time do a character-assassination .

it's even suprising how alot of Corporations (banks, webhosting, ISP, Payement services) are backstabbing wikileaks without any law backing just a weak breach of contract excuses and other shits...

Assange is the son of the Unix generation Hackerdom those like FSF (Free Software Fondation) GNU maker Richard stallman, Linux maker Linus Torvald who believe in the freedom of Information principle and those are the trooo Heroooes of this Digital Age (Assange will join them)

At first i was doubtful of the leaks but believing that experiencing myself is better that beliveing what others may say of write about i've gone to the site and read many docments specialy ones pertaining to my country and region and i tell that the documents are the real deal they are not forged nor do i think that the leak was CIA/NSA backed and all the officials declaration that the docs don't hurt them or are beneficial to them (dixit Netanyahu ) is just damage control

it's really ridiculous to see the western politicians that where denouncing the so called "Islamophacisme" on the (caricatures ,southpark,Draw-Moh-Day/Bash-Moh-Day) now mute or calling for assassinating Assange and shuting down the website confused !!!!
so Freedom of speech is when convenient to insult other civilizations/countries and Forbidden when it makes you butt-hurt confused ?

that explains why people of little significance like ( Obama, Rushdi,Liu Xiaobo) are given Nobel prizes (sir Nobel is turning in his grave) while true heroes are never heard nor rewarded is was just to annoy (Russia/Iran/China)
Quote
Liu Xiabo was asked what it would take for China to realize a true historical transformation. He replied in this way: "(It would take) 300 years of colonialism.


Democracy and Freedom are being killed since 9/11 by the USA so don't expect other 3W countries to make progress

USA=Oceania Russia/China/Iran=Eurasia+Eastasia
Perpetual War on Terror=Perpetual war for the control of Afria,the Middle East southern India and south-east Asia.
hey folks whe are in year 1984 and not 2010 blame the Matrix for that .......

so are we heading to ShangriLa or to a World of Darkness? Only Time will tell!! mad

Last edited by jasperv at 1:31 pm, Dec 7 2010

Post #430414 - Reply to (#429623) by N0x_
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12:11 am, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 13


Quote from N0x_
That is an incredibly slanted interpretation. I'm not sure why your understanding is so flawed, to be honest.

Wikileaks is simply not getting as much info from Chinese people and Russians, because most of them don't actively search for English websites. I don't know how I could have made it more clear. That doesn't mean Wikileaks won't target a country that does not speak English. I have never insinuated that; only you have.

I highly suspect you are being willfully ignorant.

But, in your own words thrown back, "that's merely my opinion. I DO NOT push it as fact."

Quote from Trov
Of course I'm biased. Who isn't? But despite my bias against Assange, I'm willing to question and learn.


The others might be too polite to call you on it, but what a load of crock that is.

Earlier:
Quote from Troy
I'm not about to search Wikileaks for information...


Right, you're so motivated to learn that you ask us to Google for you.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wikileaks+Russia
First link: "WikiLeaks: Russia Is Virtual Mafia State"

Only then did you bother to state that that isn't good enough for you because <insert random ass-pulled reason here>.

All that comes from you are ad hominems.

"Assange is a douche/attention whore."
"Wikileaks is biased."

Yadda yadda yadda.

Attacking the messenger.


In the end, for me, none of that matters, so your obfuscation is pointless. What matters most to me? Our gov't's response to this fiasco. Peoples' responses. People like you. The entire world's, in fact. I don't even care if Assange really is doing this for attention (and that is only your ass-pulled assumption which you're unwilling to back).


You shouldn't assume that my understanding is flawed, it could be your understanding. But I suppose it's human nature to find fault in others before yourself.

What you say about wikileaks not getting as much info from the Chinese and Russians is merely a possibility. Not something based on fact(Unless you wish to back it up with evidence*HINT HINT*.)
To back it up with evidence, you need to find out A) if Julian Assange received info from Russian/Chinese sources and B) If he has placed them on his site.
There actually should be another condition to proving it, but I'm making it easy.

Now, my position, or rather, my opinion, or assumption, is that he has received such info, but has not published it.

I will not prove my position/opinion/assumption. Why? Two reasons, 1. Because I can not prove it. I lack enough evidence. To me, this position is merely a likely possibility based on the absence of Russian/Chinese sources.
2. I am not trying to convince you on my way of thinking. I just wanted to say it, along with asking a question.
Now, to me, it seems like you wish to disprove my possibility. If you wish to do that, you must provide evidence to showcase how I am wrong. Otherwise, your opinion is as good as mine and this argument is mute.

Although. I could very well provide evidence that he's a douche by simply pointing to the rape case.

He didn't rape those two women, but don't tell me he's not a douche after hearing what happened to those girls.(BTW, the girls are BITCHES. They go well together.)


Quote from akuma river
As for the sources. They are AMERICAN DIPLOMATS! These are the secret cable dispatches between embassy staff and the head honchos in the State Department and Washington. It is only American staff who are able to use these.

As such, some of the information may be fallible because they are reporting on what they are 'hearing' from the country of which they are based in. So some information is later disproved while others are confirmed.


Akuma River. I don't necessary think the information is inaccurate. Although some of the documents could very well be considered hearsay if placed in the court of law. Basically like Jennifer writing about what Tina said to Lora about her driving lesson.

So yes, some of the information may indeed be infallible. But thats become one of my points.

Another problem is how he's considered a superstar and Bradley Manning is playing second fiddle. It's just funny how the situation seems to be.



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12:51 am, Dec 8 2010
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Quote
Crikey reports on Twitter that the three "sexual integrity" charges are "one unsafe sex, one sex while sleeping, one uninvited tackle rub." (Emphasis ours. Please do read that again.) "The court heard Assange is accused of using his body weight to hold her down in a sexual manner," reported the Press Association (via The Guardian), referring to statements by Gemma Lindfield on behalf of the Swedish authorities.

Source: http://wlcentral.org/node/543

I wonder how anyone manages to have sex in Sweden? Do they have children there, or do they have to import them from other countries because having 'unsafe sex' is a crime?

I've read elsewhere that what he's being accused of is worth a roughly $750 fine.

So yeah - no beatup here. No, not at all...


And Trov - no one needs to disprove anything you say. You're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you.

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1:03 am, Dec 8 2010
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some have already deduced that sweden is looking for an excuse to arrest assange, and then extradite him to the states. no

Post #430422 - Reply to (#430414) by Trov
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1:05 am, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 184


Quote from Trov
You shouldn't assume that my understanding is flawed, it could be your understanding. But I suppose it's human nature to find fault in others before yourself.


Your understanding of *what I wrote* is flawed. My own understanding of what I wrote myself is not flawed, I can assure you.

Of course, I didn't expect you to "understand" that either, because you are either extremely dull, feigning ignorance, or engaging in obfuscation.

In case others are actually falling victim to your attempts to muddy the waters:
Quote from N0x_
Quote from Trov
Quote from N0x_
I already mentioned this. Russian and Chinese users are going to be using their own forums/BBS/social medias. Do you look through or post on Chinese BBSs? No? Then don't expect the vast majority of Chinese people to look through English blogs/forums. Did you not read that?


So Wikileaks is specifically for places that speak english? They will not directly target a country that does not speak English correct? Because that seems to be what you are insinuating.
But from what I understand, the owner hopes to erase secrecy, where ever it may be. Am I missing something?(NOTE: I am seriously asking this question.)


That is an incredibly slanted interpretation. I'm not sure why your understanding is so flawed, to be honest.

Emphasis mine.

Last edited by N0x_ at 1:16 am, Dec 8 2010

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FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
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2:34 am, Dec 8 2010
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just want to clarify to lazy to look for the news article =P...didnt Julian say that if he goes to jail he will dump everything he gots into the web?? or something like that??

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3:01 am, Dec 8 2010
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It's so painful reading everyone's opinions w/out quoting everything. Julian Assange is only the public face for Wikileaks. There always has to be a fall guy, and he is it. I love learning state secrets. It just shows how much governments are lying about the most (seemingly) insignificant things. For example, was it really necessary to write down the insulting nicknames they gave other world leaders? Or when there's collateral damage, it's always the informant that's at fault.
Certain things were obvious from the start, like the number of casualties in the Middle East we reported or the civilians that were "mistaken" for insurgents. Sh!t happens. I don't see why people are so surprised.
While I want to know everything the government keeps from us, I also know it's imperative to keep some information unavailable to the general public. We got to face the fact that the world isn't fair. Someone will be on top while others suffer and the underhanded ways people use to excel sometimes need to be secret. It's basically trying to keep public dissent to a minimum and avoid large-scale protests and riots. Not to mention the US is usually at the center of the sh!tstorm, which, in turn, causes everyone to hate us. It's all about saving face. The situation isn't going to change just because one guy started exposing confidential documents. It wouldn't matter if all the top secret files were let out. It'd cause a stir for a while then it'd all go back to normal after a couple years. There would be no international retaliation since nobody wants to mess with the rich guys. UN cant really do much either. It's not like people will stop trading with us or stop allowing us to conduct military operations. The US's economy is almost 3X higher than the 2nd biggest economy of the world, excluding the EU. Nobody is going to deny us.
In conclusion, this guy is not a hero. Not even close. His accomplishments are minor at best. He's only released the least secretive files. Maybe when he discloses a file talking about the resurrection and zombification of Ronald Reagan... Until then, he is more noble than anything IMO.
Also, what defines a hero? Being a whistle blower (a snitch/narc/tattle tail)? In that case, my nephew deserves a medal.

Post #430482
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10:44 am, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 302


well well what a surprise the alleged rape (or surprise sex?) victim is an anti-comm anti-cuban femininazi see link
and she tweeted her conquests to her friends and now she tried to erase her tweets
and she published a guide on how to get revenge on ex-boyfriends confused

on another note i'm surprised of some comments of some that admitted that they didn't bother to read or view what was posted on wikileaks yet they dare start to argue their nonsense ( and that's called trolling )

Quote from Choreboy
...like the number of casualties in the Middle East we reported or the civilians that were "mistaken" for insurgents. Sh!t happens. I don't see why people are so surprised.

well it's known to us but what's unacceptable is to say "it's war, it's okay for people to die"
god damn it supposedly the War was started via citizens consent, witch mean they share the sins of killing because they accepted or they didn't oppose a ware that was started with lies.
bravo the Imperial Mobilization was a great success roll eyes

Post #430487
Endelvaar
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11:20 am, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 640


😕?

Last edited by Nashnir at 8:46 am, Jul 30 2020

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11:28 am, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 37


I voted yes...

The convenient excuse offered by governments against Assange is that his activities endanger human lives.

I certainly do NOT believe this to be true. If the nations(scum in political sphere) being affected by wikilelaks really cared about people lives, they wouldn't have started multiple wars....

Their war has done nothing to improve the lives of people; instead, money is conveniently pulled out of taxpayer's pockets to fund their egocentric crusade. Greedy politicians are tantamount to terrorists.

Post #430521 - Reply to (#430419) by Aikanaro
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2:20 pm, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 13


Quote from Aikanaro
And Trov - no one needs to disprove anything you say. You're the one making the claim, so the burden of proof is on you.


I'm not saying my claim is fact, nor am I to push my claim as fact on you or anyone else. So I have no need to prove it. It's merely my opinion, a possibility. However, if you believe it's false, you are welcome to try and show why. I'll gladly listen.

Of course, you could just say 'No Comment' and move on..

Quote from N0x_
Of course, I didn't expect you to "understand" that either, because you are either extremely dull, feigning ignorance, or engaging in obfuscation.

I'm too awesome to be the first two, And the latter is indeed fun to do, but I haven't done it at any point in this topic. Although you are welcome to your own opinion on the matter.

Quote from pumpupthevolume
just want to clarify to lazy to look for the news article =P...didnt Julian say that if he goes to jail he will dump everything he gots into the web?? or something like that??

I heard that too. But it's kind of a crappy threat considering he's likely to dump all of it regardless of prison time.

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El Psy Kongroo.
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3:00 pm, Dec 8 2010
Posts: 968


I don't really care about it lol. Even if everything is made public, there isn't anything we can do about it. It's not like we can restrain everyone involved in a conspiracy and stop an idea. It just starts more conflict.

Whatever we do, the earth is screwed. If we don't kill it first, the sun will once it goes supernova.

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