Sorry, I found it pointless to read your missive past this point. I don't know about "people", but in your case, the mere fact that you left me that message steeped in butthurt says otherwise. If you truly didn't care, you wouldn't have been spouting that misguided nonsense about "irony". First and foremost, you need to be honest with your feelings.

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Don't people put stuff on the internet so that they will be read, I am rather ignorant of this situation, but... like other people have said, we are already breathing copy right laws by putting the mangas up, sure it isn't nice when people do steal it, but...

Also, just to point it out, were I live there is only one shop that actually sells translated manga, and it is really small, underground and really hard to find, not only that but it is super expensive and it is hard to get second hand and if i buy it online, chances are the postage will make it even more expensive. For some, reading online is the only way to read manga.

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We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james

LMAO. the irony. you should add that line to your blog "too much text". you say that people should speak out more on the internet but the moment someone posts an opinion longer than 2 paragraphs it becomes "too long" and that person's opinion basically gets ignored by the masses.

sorry bro but that was the short version. if we were talking face to face i would have a lot more to say. thats what a discussion is... a lot of words.

regarding the subpoena thing, it is quite easy to get a scanlators info. first of all, none of these companies know who these scanlators are, they probably know their IPs though and thats all they need. the person in question doesnt actually get the subpoena directly, its the ISP that gets one asking for the information of user(s) with IP________. The ISP then notifies the account holder that he/she has 30 days to either let their ISP give away their information or get a lawyer and fight it out.

As for having to talk to multitudes of lawyers, thats not necessarily true. When my friend contacted several lawyers regarding his situation, they all told him to do nothing and just wait to be contacted directly by whoever filed the subpoena. So in fact, he didnt even have a lawyer present until he was actually about to sign the settlement.

Well, read whatever you want from it then. Copyright law, and Copyright abuse, happen to be a strong passion of mine, and it always amuses me how much hypocrisy there is from both sides of the argument. If you want this to be about you, then...well, by all means, take it that way.

You went from one position to another. For what I had understood you were saying we have to suck it up, and that was the meaning of "getting on with times". My blogpost says that sucking it up is not the answer.
I'm extremely progressive with what concerns scanlation tech, so it's a weak point of mine. The point in my blogpost was that saying to suck it up isn't really fun to hear.


The most they can know is the IP of the server the scanlator is using.

From my provider:




Again, they can't track people down, and surely they don't know their home IP, unless they were trying to triangulate by injecting images in the blog comments of scanlator sites – but, while extremely easy, that would be against the law.
Basically, you need a court order. There have been cases with p2p before, like the 1337 people that Viz(?) tried suing, of which only two were actually charged. Scanlation, though, doesn't live off p2p.

I still believe subpoenaing scanlators is a very farfetched, because of the too many variables making the scanlator hard to catch, in front of much more popular actions one can take to stop the piracy.

After all, in the last year especially, we've seen publishers getting on with the times. The best, and often only way to fight crime on the Internet, is by giving a better solution to the problem.
Wasting resources (money is not all there is to it) on fighting directly instead of becoming plain better is a bad investment.

Last edited by woxxy at 3:11 pm, Sep 30 2011

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I don't know where you learned your law. But in the US, it's called Copyright act.
And, the way you act, it's like you are still a teenager who takes things for granted. Someday when you have matured enough, you will see how foolish you are.

Btw, i'm pretty sure, Bleach fan boy like you all read To-Love Ru, and for you info, cmertb is the translator of that series. And no, i'm not piggy backing him (since I and Cmertb don't go along with each other) but your attitude toward the people you are in debt to, is arrogant and reckless. I'm glad all the readers aren't like you. And you deserve to be called a leecher.

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What.

Copyright is an encompassing term that refers to the rights that content creators have over there Intellectual Property, which include sales, distribution and derivative works, among other things. One such law in the US is the Copyright Act of 1976, but it is not the sole Act that encompasses Copyright Law in the United States.

To say that "in the US, it's called the Copyright act" is outright ignorant of your own country's laws, and basically ignores the Berne Convention Implementation and the DMCA, among others.


On the contrary, it seems I have a much deeper understanding of the law than you do.


As I said, never read any of his work. And I most certainly am a leecher, as are the thousands of other people that read Manga but don't take part in the Scanlation/Subbing process.

You may not like my attitude, but it doesn't change the fact that your opinion of MangaFox is no different that the actual Manga industries opinion of Scanlators. MangaFox offers a service that people apparently appreciate, just as Scanlators do. It doesn't stop either of the two from being illegal.

=)), you are speaking of Berne :3
lmao, maybe it's about time for some legal lesson?

I will tell you this: Berne can mostly do nothing in the US, simply for the fact that the US has already implemented the content into its local law. Please stop bullshiting me, you don't know what the hell you are talking about, seriously. And if you are in the US, and there's complaint about copyright infringement, it's the Copyright Act and something called precedent in the local state (and circus) they will cite ( No Berne unless there's no local law please, lmao). I will give you a clue: go to Westlaw or Lexisnexis to get your facts straight but i highly doubt you know about them, let alone having an account there.

And this "fact" that my opinion of MangaFox is no different that the actual Manga industries opinion of Scanlators is totally wrong. It's your "fact" not mine lol...Here's mine: Fan scanlators do help promoting and helping the English publisher to know the popularity and thus, increases the chance of official English translation. Actually, in the past, onemanga, mangatoshokan and other online readers were the targets of the English publishers, not the fan scanlation. Simply because that, each fan sub had a very limit number of titles and they all work for free, without any profit (and don't bullshiting me that, it has to have profit or something to be infringing the Copyright Act, because i already know that). Then why mangafox, mangahere? you know nothing but there are about 200 titles in mangafox/mangahere that are the properties of the official English publisher and that's what i call copyright violators.

Fan scanlation is, on the other hand, in a gray area. There is no precedents (well, someone is bound to do one soon at this rate). So what matters in this, is what we scanlators call "morale" and "respect". Look, we scanlators are the ones doing all the job, we pay for the raw, pay for our website, our hosting, we pay for our electric bill, our internet bill...all those cost money, on top of that, we work hours and days to make a releases of a chapter possible...and what do we want back in return? That's recognition for some of us, for others, it may be another motives but in the end, scanlators like us mostly lose many things but gain nothing. Now, look at mangafox, mangahere, what do they do? They break our policy because they want our releases on their fucking site asap, they want to implement their shitty name on our releases asap. (fuck, look at mangahere, it has watermark of its shitty name on all the 4 corners of our releases). Now, if you were in our shoes, after 3 days working so hard for a chapter of manga, (and you already paid $10 to buy the raw!)...they come and take your release, upload it on their site and even claim that it's not you, but they are the ones scanlating that release...how do you feel? And i have not mentioned about them making money through your work?

I would advise you something: be a responsible reader, or I really pity the scanlation world for having leechers like you. (and i hope you don't read my scanlation too, i really hope, Bleach fan boy )




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Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988. One key point you want to look for is that it officially recognizes the copyrights of other signatory nations, one of which is Japan.


I fail to see what your opinion on the matter has to do with any of this. You think fan scanlators help promote the content, good for you. So do I, for that matter.

It doesn't change the fact that both are illegal, and that the Manga industry has issued numerous take downs for their content. I suggest briefly Googling DMCA takedowns on scanlated and subbed material.



§ 106. Exclusive rights in copyrighted works

Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following:

(1) to reproduce the copyrighted work in copies or phonorecords;

(2) to prepare derivative works based upon the copyrighted work;

(3) to distribute copies or phonorecords of the copyrighted work to the public by sale or other transfer of ownership, or by rental, lease, or lending;

(4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly;

(5) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and pictorial, graphic, or sculptural works, including the individual images of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, to display the copyrighted work publicly; and

(6) in the case of sound recordings, to perform the copyrighted work publicly by means of a digital audio transmission.


As you can plainly see, commercial gain is only one very small part of the Copyright Act of 1976, referenced in 106(3). And under the Copyright Act of 1976, "translations" are clearly defined as Derivative Works, which is covered under 106(2).

How's that for a "legal lesson"?

Funny, you said you know about the law while you don't know how things work in trial. What i mentioned there about how Berne has nothing to do with a case in US is a very basic civil law procedure...I can assure you that, if you think Berne can do a damn thing in a US law case, then i don't know which law school you go to, can you tell me which school that taught you that?

"It doesn't change the fact that both are illegal, and that the Manga industry has issued numerous take downs for their content. I suggest briefly Googling DMCA takedowns on scanlated and subbed material."
You have some bold statement for a guy who doesn't understand how the law works. I tell you this, no real attorney will agree with you because, as i said, it's a new and in my opinion, a gray area. Why i'm saying it a gray area, sorry, i don't want to share my trade for someone who's as "wise" and "knowledgeable" as you.

Good job googling that section 106 (well, my niece 3 years old could do the same if i tell her the keyword to type on google ), Copy and paste really works eh?

To end this, you should be knowing it by now who knows his shit more, bleach fan boy
and i suggest you stop there too :3
Adiosssssss~
Troll successful :3
/me runssssss






Last edited by Tran Linh at 5:46 pm, Sep 30 2011

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'Course it can't do anything with case law. A Legislative Act can't very well create court precedent now, can it? You kinda need cases for case law.


Oh, yeah, totally worthy of respect .

Actually there are court cases in relation to the DMCA but the most notable ones (against YouTube and Veoh) end up being about the Safe Heaven clause in the DMCA.

But yes, Tran Linh notion of copyright in the United States is wrong ... well it would be correct if we were in 1987 and if the Berne Convention Implementation Act of 1988 did not exist ... well not REALLY as there was already International Copyright Act of 1891 (granted that one was VERY limited).

If you want to challenge the DMCA then go right ahead, heck you ARE challenging the DMCA but dont believe for a second the US is a safe heaven so you can do just ignore international copyright, that ended in 1988 ... and also you want to present a argument, let me put this way, you are not making much of a case when more then half of your presentation is composed of personal attacks.

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What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

if scanlators want to shutdown manga readers all they have to do is watermark info on adblockers on every page rather than their group name or the whole "don't upload to a reader" and etc

Um... all the dmca/copyright talk...

Let's summarize this simply.
dmca = land of litigation only. Get out and done. Most scanlators are NOT in USA anyway.
international copyright/berne convention. Just look at the countries that didn't sign.
I think the legal problem is now over. lol

And I want to defend one point.

I'm not sure on what basis you are calling them hypocrites, but I want to mention this. Number of groups' reason to "only allow Batoto" was not due to the wish of monopoly of whitelist for profit but a result of a blacklist. If you weed out any readers with any of the condition that "does not compress", "does not watermark", and "follows group rules", there's only Batoto left (and MT, but they don't have manga). There are groups with "batoto only" that doesn't participate in any ad-programs.

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Groups caring about being respected is one thing, but trying to control distribution is another. That's worse than what aggregators are doing, in my opinion.

I know the groups that are that strict about sharing scanlaton have something not working right in their methods, and I won't be shy to consider them hypocrites, despite that covers many of the groups that use my software. I actually use to tell them to be more open – sometimes they listen.

In the end, the irony stands in the fact that the aggregators who don't follow the rules will have their manga anyway, and the legit aggregators won't. I don't give much weight about those discussions on compression... that wasn't even much of a problem until one year ago, but now everyone uses such excuses to back up their claims for which all aggregators are bad. That's shouldering something that is not a problem in first place, since it's a reader's choice where to read, and not indicator of respect. Actually, MangaFox was good for that, because they enabled HQ on request.

You offer respect, and Batoto is awesome for that – but I can't be sure about the intentions of the teams. It's not about the money, it's just about having control.

It's not a real problem either.

The real problem now is the mass hysteria – how could we tame it? Because things are the same as 1, 2, 3, 4 years ago, especially on the scanlator side. This is all fabricated drama, much bigger than necessary. The whole point would be improving scanlation, and it ends up killing scanlators because they get taken in this flow of hate.

Last edited by woxxy at 7:06 am, Oct 1 2011

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