Warcraft III brought DotA and other AOS styled games to esports.

Hmm. Which do you think was more important, The Sims or Sim City? I always have trouble with such comparisons.



Tough call with racing games. What do you think of Gran Turismo or Ridge racer?

As for sports games, what should I list?

What I read about horror, Sweet Home is considered the first but it was Japan only. Alone in The Dark was what started it every where else. Tough call which deserves more credit but kainord vouched for the latter and I don't really care for Resident evil anyway.

Last edited by drunkguy at 3:32 pm, Dec 5 2011

definitely
diablo 2
baldurs gate 2
morrowind
zelda : ocarina of time --> many of the girls I know played and liked this game when they were little.so... do I know a bunch of weirdos or is that common?

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NFS raises a valid point, there were race games before (no titles come to mind, but used to play those a lot under DOS), they were the ones that made racing "realistic" (or at least less kludgy).
Horror, not sure... Most likely also under DOS (something Lovecraftian like) in a adventure/visual novel kind of setting, games if played today would be more funny/annoying than scary.

While on the subject, where would Commander Keen || Duke Nukem place? ^.^.. Not really the first platform-games, but highly popular and trend-setters none-the-less..

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When i talked about the Sims series, i meant the Sim city, that was the begining of the life simulators.
And the Nfs wasnt the first street racing game there was perhaps the Test drive series and Street rod.
In platform games we must mention Prince of persia and Flashback.
And before resident evil there was Alone in the dark.

Ah, see, I think you and I are thinking of two different kinds of "influential". I was thinking, what things really moved gaming in a new direction? For example: Rogue. Most people, except geek gamers, have no idea what that is. But, it lead to Rogue-likes, such as Nethack or ADOM, which inspired games like Diablo, which then lead to a slew of Diablo-likes such as Torchlight, and has pretty much started that entire facet of gaming. But if we're talking about recognizability, or how much the general public is aware of it...that's a whole different kind of "influential".

The same with Zelda. Some people may not recognize it, but it DID start the whole idea of actually exploring games. Needless to say, that lead gaming in a hugely different direction (if I'm remembering wrong, someone please correct me). So if we're talking about development, yes it's a big influence. But if we're talking about recognizability...I guess it's hard to say.

As for Everquest, it was the first "big addiction MMO". Maybe I'm the only one that remembers it being hatefully referred to as Evercrack, and all the news hype about depressed men committing suicide when they didn't manage to recover their loot (or some such drama). I don't see why it has to be "more" worthy than Ultima Online. Each had its part in the grand scheme of things.

Like I said, if you want to be faithful to history...this will be a very, very long list. It would be much simpler to branch off into different genres, like "Most Influential Shooters/RPGs/Fighters/etc."

Last edited by imp4ever at 5:25 pm, Dec 5 2011

I'm just trying to keep the list as short as possible. If the series has a lot of titles, I'll try to limit it to one and I generally hold off on including a title if it has a ton of competition. That said, I do see your point with Zelda's popularizing nonlinear console gameplay. Its too easy to forget how everything used to be linear side scrollers. I can't help but feel conflicted over whether the original or ocarina of time was more influential though, as that was also a significant trend setter.

I mainly was wondering about Everquest vs UO because UO came first but Everquest was more popular and I'd rather not list both to keep the list a bit more succinct. Still, it is the first videogame I can remember where people killed themselves over it.

Last edited by drunkguy at 6:51 pm, Dec 5 2011

C&C didn't really define the genre, although it is one of the better-known and older franchises. If you're really looking for the most influential, it should either be Dune 2 or some of the Blizzard games.

Warcraft 2 introduced a tonne of the features that are now considered standard in RTS games, and it was also a pioneer in user-generated content with an easy-to-use built-in map editor. Starcraft is notable for being the premier game in launching esports, and showing that an RTS could have balanced competition even with multiple wildly different factions to play.

On the subject of user-generated content, it's also worth mentioning Doom and Quake, particularly the latter. Doom had a lot of mapmakers, but Quake encouraged code-modifications and allowed the development of mods that became famous in their own right, such as Team Fortress.

For fighting games, it might also be worth considering the progenitors of the 3D fighting game genre, such as Virtua Fighter.

I still feel you should include it popularizing the GameBoy and hand held consoles... the anime was popular, but there were plenty of others. The manga wasn't and isn't. Also, if you want to include those, you might as well include the TCG.

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@drunkguy

I guess Joentjuh answered your question...
I forgot about UT though and if I recall correctly, Quake 3 was released immediately after that...

@Topic

Anyway, how come Shenmue(Dreamcast) is not mentioned? AFAIK it was the first and imo the originator of the "Open-World City" Gameplay and is also one of the most expensive games in its time... I believe that GTA 3 was more popular but Shenmue was the 1st who introduced the concept of Open-City gaming. It has a large impact on later games imo... What do you think?

Last edited by rheinxvv at 5:20 am, Dec 6 2011

@Joentjuh: I'm debating on how I should fit Duke Nukem. He has become a joke for so long in gaming due to Duke Nukem Forever that it overshadows all its other contributions. In a way, the 2011 release is more important to gaming as a lesson in release cycles. I've never even heard of Commander Keen so I'll need to hear some arguments on him before I consider it.

@Bafflement: I chose the original C&C over Warcraft since the first thing you think about when you hear the name is RTS and the first thing that pops into people's heads when they mention Warcraft is WoW instead of RTS nowadays. Dune II felt more like something only the more hardcore players will remember though I personally liked that game more than C&C. I never did figure out how to kill the damned sandworms.

Doom and Quake were games I used to play all the time and it is tough for me to judge which was the most influential to modding. I picked Wolfenstein 3d mostly because it was the grandfather title but I do feel that including a game to mark the rise of mods is needed. Doom and Quake is like comparing C&C and Warcraft for me if Warcraft never lead to WoW. They both are synonymous with the rise of early modding to me. I'm gonna need to see a few more posts before I decide on it.

Virtua Fighter definitely deserves mention though as a turning point from 2d to 3d graphics. For racing though, what do you think of Virtua Racing? I never played it before myself so I wouldn't know.

@FormX: Interesting points. I didn't consider the TCG though I suppose I am underestimating its importance to revitalizing the GB.

@rheinxvv: Shenmue's a tough call as it was a Dreamcast exclusive. Even during its heyday, it didn't do too well relative to its cost. It has influence but mostly only towards the hard core gamers and designers nowadays. I am actually more inclined to include Phantasy Star Online as the online gaming pioneer for consoles but I never played it before. Any thoughts?

Last edited by drunkguy at 1:04 pm, Dec 6 2011

Wait, there are people that don't know Commander Keen... I'm perplexed.
C-Keen is a side-scrolling platform game series, pre-dating Quake and Doom by a few years. Actually, it's the first game ID Software published (Wolfenstein 3D came 2 years later).
Besides it being a game with youthful sentiment for me, I remember vaguely being impressed by it's "smooth" graphics.
... It's what truly brought me into the world of computer gaming.


Actually, that various from person to person. It's true, games like Red Alert were pretty popular back in the days, but to me Warcraft (2) and Starcraft will always be the foundations of RTS gaming... Not because they were the first, but because they were the first to bring quality to the table.
To me, "Warcraft" still brings back the good memories of Warcraft - Orcs & Humans, and when thinking some more Warcraft 3.. WoW doesn't even enter the fold (too "new" ). Ah well, the signs of getting old.


Well, the C&C series had quite a few releases with only the general interface and game style in common. None of the titles in the series really is a continuation of the previous, is it therefore fair to count them as a whole?
Warcraft also had a few titles, yet they all shared the same lore and each iteration added something (which is growing still).
Starcraft would be at the top of my list, for the sole reason that it's only had one minor expansion pack in the 12 years since it's first release and it's still played a lot to this day (which is slowly getting less since SCII). Can you honestly say that for any of the C&C games (or Warcraft for that matter).

Hmm, Lore... That brings up another point. Are we looking at solely the games here, or at the experience as a whole?
In that case, games like Baldur's Gate have a clear advantage, being based in a world that has been formed by many gamers beforehand and with one of the richest fantasy worlds (Dungeons and Dragons /-> Toril) to this day... To a lesser degree, Warcraft, Starcraft, and Diablo also have this (look at the amount of people shaping the worlds outside of the games and the sales of additional novels and such).
D&D cRPGs always have a +1 from me for the simple fact that they take place in a world I'm familiar with, like, have read (and still read) many novels from, and roleplay in myself (outside of computer gaming).
Something that could never happen with games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect.

Also, would Transport Tycoon make the list? (or to be precise, OpenTTD), which is still popular, being improved by the community, and played a lot to this day.
And finally, what about Freelancer? Not the first, but in my eyes definitely the one that "made" the genre (space business/combat simulation)... It's graphics are also not to be underrated, if played today they would still be fairly decent, especially with a few small community mods (which are still actively being developed).


o.O wall of text...

Last edited by Joentjuh at 2:24 pm, Dec 6 2011

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Hmm. I chose Command and Conquer because Tiberium Dawn was the most influential of the series and, at least to my mind, RTS in general but it is difficult to separate individual games from a franchise when passing judgement.

Starcraft has always struck me as a game that mastered its genre instead of being a big innovator, though making RTS more than two way competitions was a coup at the time. Now that I think about it, I am allowing WoW to color too many of my judgements about Blizzard's games.

I am actually inclined to include Baldur's Gate as it serves as the basic template for so many RPGs. My main reason for holding off is that I hear a lot about Neverwinter Nights and wonder if that game has eclipsed Baldur's Gate.

I am tempted to place MechWarrior 2 in the mix but since I have never played #1, I am wondering if that would be fair. On a side note, where the hell have all the giant robot games gone? Is the genre on life support or something?

As a general guideline, I'm looking for the biggest trendsetters. Like the iPod or iPad, it didn't have to create the genre but it should have been the one to popularize it. If it has affected our vocabulary, it probably belongs. The ones in bold are the ones people will talk about until civilization collapses and apes take over.

In that case, I feel like the more recent games (even with the 2004 cut-off) would be much harder to judge. It's easy to look back at the 80s and pick out the most publicly enduring games, because the gaming market was smaller and individual games had more impact. Pretty much everyone knows Pac-Man and Mario, and few will debate it.

But as gamers age so do their memories, and as new gamers come in you've got conflicting generations. A game that was huge and sensational in the early 90s may have been totally eclipsed by the new face of its genre in the early 2000s. Older gamers might cite the first game as the most significant, newer gamers might cite the latter, and it's really just a matter of perspective. When you add in the fact that there are also many times the amount of games to sort through, it just becomes a mess.

(This analogy extends to trends of all sorts: everyone nowadays would add the iPod/Pad/Phone to a significant technology timeline, but how many younger people would think to add the Walkman? Wouldn't that number have been different in the 90s?)

There are probably several ways to go about this, but the cleanest I can think of are along the lines of, "From the perspective of a veteran gamer, which games were most significant?" or "What do the newer generations of gamers think were the most significant games?" Both would have interesting results I'm sure, but that sort of thing would be a pain.

You can certainly keep going the way you're going though, but be prepared to deal with conflict. The "most people" that would associate Warcraft with the MMO before the RTS will likely give you very different suggestions than those who do not.

TL;DR: If you're intent on basing your timeline on people's general opinions instead of more quantitative data, and you don't narrow your timeline to a more specific genre or demographic, people will argue about stuff.

On a contributory note, you really should add The Sims as well, not just Sim City. That series has dominated PC gaming for quite a while, and also gave rise to a whole new breed of casual gamers. Whichever way you look at it, it's pretty big.

Yeah I think that Morrowind needs to be on there