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How Do You Feel About The Protagonist Killing People?

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Poll
How Do You Feel About The Protagonist Killing People?
Hate it, he can find another way to get rid of people
Love it, then the villain won't be coming back
Don't kill them unless it is necessary (for whatever reason)
I don't care about, as long as the story is well developed
If they go into the long 5 page explanation as to why it is wrong, they just lot a reader
Other (specify below)
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Transdude1996
Post #585459
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2:23 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 345


I was just wondering this because I saw that one of the gripes many people have with reading manga is that the protagonist isn't willing to kill.

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yuri999
Post #585462
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2:56 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 154


Good post Transdude,

I went with option three. Personally, for me a deal breaker is when the protagonist is a manwhore who sleeps around with everyone or is shown as giving a bullsh!t excuse to slut around with every living organism. Of course, this includes nearly all seinen with borderline h for which I couldn't give a damn.

Sorry for going off-topic.

BlackOrion
Post #585470
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Not-BlackOrion
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3:56 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 707


It's all story related for me, if he doesn't have the personality for the kill then he should't, if he do then he should, it won't satisfy me if it is just the Mangaka opinion on the subject; as an example in DBZ neither Vegata nor Piccolo would have a problem Killing an Enemy, but Goku wouldn't even in the worst situation, like with Freeza, and would only try it if there was absolutely no other solution, like with Buu. That was perfect for me.

Badkarma
Post #585472
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An F to judge M!
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4:09 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 338


My only real gripe is when the protagonist goes from having such an opposing viewpoint that he/she is willing to seriously engage someone in a life or death fight, only to be 'best friends 4eva!' after they beat said someone to within an inch of their life.

Or when the antagonist is given a second chance, only to blow it. I mean, at some point, Mario's gotta say to Bowser, "Dude, I'm sick of this shit."

Quote from yuri999
Good post, Transdude.

I feel the need to reaffirm this. Not in a casual 'being nice' sense, but more along the lines of a dog trainer cruelly rubbing a puppy's nose in its own excrement after it pooped in the house.

Last edited by Badkarma at 4:48 pm, Jan 28

Spawnblade
Post #585477
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4:58 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 467


I like it.

But only because 99% of the time, it would make logical sense in the manga for the protagonist to kill the antagonist. -MOST- shounen (going to assume this is what we're talking about, as the antagonist is usually killed in seinen, and in shoujo the girl usually ends up reforming/marrying the bad guy.) antagonists are mass-murderers (at the very least) by the time the end of the manga swings around. At worst, they've destroyed entire dimensions. Letting someone like that live because they've claimed to repent?.... No. Just no. Risking countless innocents for the life of one guilty person is the stupidest idea ever. I don't know how it ever became a core concept of most justice systems.

To be fair, I think western comics are worse at this than shounen manga. I can't think of a single superhero that doesn't have this 'catch and release' problem. It's like fighting villains is a game for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they actually arranged to break their villains out of their maximum security cells whenever they were bored. The Joker, Lex Luthor, Doctor Doom, Venom, Loki, etc etc. How many killing sprees do they have to go on before the superheroes are satisfied?

Shounen authors are less afraid of using new antagonists. In fact, I think it's pretty standard for them to switch it up. It's one of the few ways in which their mangas actually evolve in order to keep their readers, rather than making any strides in meaningful character development.

giinko
Post #585480
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Psycho. Cracked.
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5:25 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 165


I've been looking for a good story (manga/ comic, I've read most of the books) which the murderer/ the killer is the main character for ages. That should already explain my opinion on this. It's fun, thrilling, twisted and conflicted, what can be more wonderful.

Anyways, better killing than being all faked moral about it. I'm not saying that killing people is a something one should do, but this is the world of fiction, I don't mind a little out of line or over the top. Although I like both the dark complex characters and the ones with unbreakable determination, I guess I grew out of the normal definition of being on the good side.

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yuri999
Post #585481 - Reply to (#585472) by Badkarma
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5:35 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 154


Quote from Badkarma
I feel the need to reaffirm this. Not in a casual 'being nice' sense, but more along the lines of a dog trainer cruelly rubbing a puppy's nose in its own excrement after it pooped in the house.


Ouch! laugh
Thanks for the stealth . fix wink

Btw, DmC Devil May Cry dealt with this issue in a fairly realistic manner.

Spoiler (mouse over to view)
Dante was about to kill his brother but Kat stopped him in the end. Dante pulls Vergil up but any goodwill and ties they had have been vanquished. Next time they meet, it will be as enemies.


Transdude1996
Post #585484 - Reply to (#585477) by Spawnblade
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5:47 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 345


That's one of the most noted remarks that I see made in the DC Universe. Though, if you want to see superheroes actually kill the villain, I would recommend you look up the publishing company Image. Spawn, The Darkness, and Witchblade are a few of their series that I read.

Also, there is a difference between the Japanese and American comics. In the Japanese comics, they let the bad guy go because the protagonist wants to be labeled as a "good guy". No point in doing this if the world is already gone, I agree with everybody else on this point. In the American comics, they don't kill the villain because they want to leave it up to the Courts to decide whether the villain lives, dies, or goes to Arkam. Also, there is no need to worry about the world disappearing here, either A, because he's Batman, or B, Superman turns back time and fixes everything (refer to the HISHE Superhero videos).


I chose the fourth option if anyone wanted to ask.

Edit: Also, thank you Badkarma.

Last edited by Transdude1996 at 6:15 pm, Jan 28

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strixflash
Post #585486
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Noblesse Forever!
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6:02 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 965


I want protagonist to kill villainsroll No point in letting them live, and inviting them for tea and have talk about friendship/importance of life & other crapsembarrassed

(If you're looking for a good shonen where protagonist doesn't hesitates to kill, then try Noblesse. Don't let the start decieve you)


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tgirl
Post #585496
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hoo ha
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8:27 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 213


I have more of a beef with protagonists killing good people than the evil/bad people. I don't mind protagonists giving some clemency to certain bad guys, who are willing to repent 100% with not too much blood on their hands. It's just, when it comes to particular "super smart" protagonists, they just lack any mercy of who they're facing. If it's a "witness", even if he/she's innocent, he/she's killed. That reaallly really annoys me.

(Of course, I don't read those kinds of manga if that's the case, but I would love to read one where the powerful/intelligent god-like protagonist seriously goes after the true bad people.)

Last edited by tgirl at 8:46 pm, Jan 28

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Zarallx
Post #585497
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8:29 pm, Jan 28 2013
Posts: 63


If they go into a Life and Death Fight. Then at the end the Protagonist makes a complete BS reason why not to kill, ill get pissed. But as someone said Earlier DBZ did a good job, and also i'd have to give props to One Piece. Luffy doesn't ever kill people, but it's not like he avoids it, and i believe it's handled in a pretty good way.

Transdude1996
Post #586582
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6:12 pm, Feb 7 2013
Posts: 345


To make another game reference, in Bioshock 2, this issue is taken into action. Like for example, if you decide to
Spoiler (mouse over to view)
spare the three NPCs, then Eleanor decides to save her mother at the end of the game. If you kill all three of the NPCs, then Eleanor kills her mother. I forget which of the two results you get if you mix and match who you kill and spare.


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Ncf
Post #586583
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8:10 pm, Feb 7 2013
Posts: 18


It depends on what kinda of manga... but normally I´m okay with it, Like in Cavalier of the Abyss Nex kills normal people and I´m okay with it

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Ii
Post #586631
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5:59 am, Feb 8 2013
Posts: 6


To begin, the most common misconception is the whole concept of 'good and evil'. There is nothing that states that a protagonist is required to have and retain any degree of goodness whatsoever. Correspondingly, the antagonist doesn't have to be 'evil' either. The only requirement that these two literary positions call for is that they are opponents. So, essentially, the protagonist could be on the 'evil' side of the spectrum, and conversely so for the antagonist. This is not an accusation of any sort, but claiming that a protagonist can't kill because he/she is the protagonist is illogical. Protagonists/Antagonists hold no moral obligations.

With the literal complications out of the way, I believe it just comes down to how the whole thing is executed. A protagonist can kill if the author can build the story well around it.

Contently
Post #586634
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El Psy Congroo.
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6:29 am, Feb 8 2013
Posts: 840


I love psychotic murdering protagonists...

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