Did I sound mean? Wasn't really intending to, although I don't really care. It's not that I don't understand someone's values, it's that their values are usually based on shallow reasoning. If the reason someone doesn't eat beef is because they don't like how large industrial complexes handle the treatment of their cattle, that's fine because that's a pretty well grounded reason, but if the reason someone won't eat venison is because they don't want to hurt bambi's mom, I'm afraid I might be talking to a six year old, if not physically then mentally.

As far as imitation meat goes, no, just no. It's lying to yourself. On one hand it's saying you don't need meat in your life, then on the other it's saying you can't live without meat in your life. The other issue this notion creates is it dictates that no good tasting food exists that isn't meat. If you're going to go vegan, do what you want, but at least fucking own it. Don't do any of this half-assed bullshit. Figure out how to make good food without having to desperately cling to the one thing you gave up.

There does exist good vegan food that doesn't try to taste like meat. I even make it.

Ever notice there are no poor vegans?

I agree that it's a sacrifice, and I've watched that cooking show on which one of the judges is vehemently opposed to any dish without meat. But since I cook only vegetarian food for myself, it doesn't take long, and it tastes fine to me, I guess I just can't personally understand the degree to which it might bother anyone else. I'm not a foodie at all though.

Not true.

Most of poor people in the third world country are reluctant vegans. Since meats are expensive, and they prefer to sell the meats they somehow acquire to the market for the cash, while eating rice and vegetables in their daily life.

How do I know that?

My dad used to be one of those people. No one in his village, beside the village chie, could afford meat. Any meat money they have, they usually spend it on repairing clothes, buying veggie seeds to grow, or saving it, for bribes and whatnot.

Except they are living without meat in their lives, since it's meat analogue. That's the whole point, it's not meat.

If their health, religion, ethics or other reasons stand in the way of their eating meat but they still crave it and they want to have a similar taste or it helps them in their transition to their new diet without the implications then it's a reasonable alternative. For you to so boldly claim "If you're going to go vegan, do what you want, but at least fucking own it." and contradict yourself in the same sentence because they don't live up to your presumed standards, already shows your poor understanding of the wide facets of the concept. Unless you're suggesting that people might as well continue eating meat so they "Don't do any of this half-assed bullshit" anymore. I also wasn't aware that eating the imitation meant renouncing all non meat tasting vegan cuisine, since of course, none of them are meat.

It seems you're quite fond of repudiating superficial reasoning on one end yet fond on indulging on it yourself.

Last edited by ThirySixChambers at 1:03 am, Sep 30 2014

That's not being a vegan. That's just not being able to eat meat. Being a vegan doesn't mean you don't eat meat. Being a vegan means you choose not to eat meat.

Where is the OP? I haven't seen him come here after he/she acted all high and mighty, then got called out on it.

Do you know what vegans are? It doesn't mean people who don't eat meat. It means people who consume nothing that came from animals, that includes stuff like leather or medicines with ingredients sourced from animals.

Veganism is extreme, unnatural, and unhealthy. Plus people who are vegans go out of their way to point it out and try to insult anyone who isn't also a vegan. I don't think poor people are doing that.

Yes I do.

Am I wrong?

Oh sorry, I was reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism, this http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vegetarianism and like many other dictionary you could google or read at my home (I have 3, I like books).

It said, "it may also include abstention from by-products of animal slaughter".

"It may include..." But not always.

Apparently.the meaning of the word really varies, but one thing stays the same. Vegetarian doesn't eat meat. For whatever reason.

Or do you have some kind of "The Super Awesome Dictionary of Absolute Truth" that I don't about?

No, it's not extreme, unnatural, or unhealthy.

It is what it is.

For the note, I eat meat. But no, I don't care about food preference of other people. As long they're a decent human being, I'm cool with that.

Vegetarian =/= Vegan. Vegan is a far more extreme version of being a vegetarian.

________________

It's called cognitive dissonance. It turns out that when your body and mind know better than you do, it tends to lead to unhealthy consequences. Add to that an uncanny valley effect where you know it's not meat and it ends up suffering because of it. Substitutes are rarely the way to settle a craving, and more often than not, they only make it worse.

My point is it's holding on to something that you don't need and is probably holding you back from making good recipes that don't rely on meat to be good. I just do not get the insistence on trying to eat what everyone else does, but instead replacing what is apparently a key ingredient with a makeshift substitute that is typically nowhere even remotely close.

To be clear, I'm not talking about a protein substitute. All I'm really bashing on is making something taste like something it's not.

Yes.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/veganism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veganism

That's vegetarian, not vegan. All 3rd world countries eat eggs and cheese, or other food made from animal products.

In fact, if you're in a poor village you'd be foolish not to. When animals like Goats and Chickens can graze off of vegetation that humans can't consume, and produce food you can consume, it's almost a necessity to have some kind of livestock around.

Of course if people are poor, they don't have the luxury to be picky over their food/clothing/gear options, whatever those may be. Where's the relevancy of that question in relation to the topics of why people hate vegans/vegetarians and/or why the people here don't want to be vegans/vegetarians thenselves? The people of Uruguayan Air Force Flight 571 didn't have the luxury to be picky either, but let's hold off on the Soylent Green for as long as possible.


Agreed that it's extreme and unnatural as a chosen lifestyle (though I don't view these as valid points, Cheez Whiz is also extreme and unnatural and I doubt you're going to get on the case of Cheez Whiz eaters) and it can be unhealthy in vegans who don't take care to get proper nutrients from non-animal sources. But of the 1/3 Americans who are obese, at far greater risk than the general population for heart disease, joint problems, type II diabetes, liver disease and various other things, what percentage of these people do you think are vegans?

Last edited by hkanz at 11:15 pm, Oct 1 2014

I think it's ignorance, which is the reason for why many people hate things in life. It's not more expensive to eat vegan; in fact it's much cheaper if you avoid scams and "specialty" foods (eg meat substitutes, unfermented soy products etc) that some health food stores try to promote. I spend about half of what I used to on groceries; produce, canned veggies, frozen veggies, dry lentils, rice and quinoa are all much cheaper than a meat and dairy products. It's also not "unnatural" or "unhealthy"; you can get every single vitamin, mineral, amino etc from a plant diet that you can get from eating meat, including B12 which you can get from yeast. Vegan diets are very healthy if you do it right, being very high in protein, fibre, and vitamins while being very low in bad fats, bad cholesterol, sugar, salt (avoid preserved and packaged foods), and the hundreds of added chemicals and hormones added to dairy and meat products (including packaged foods).

Not to mention you aren't part of a system that condones and promotes torture and cruelty for the sake of greedy, over-weight, first-world folks who like to make their money by killing animals (including humans) and you are creating a healthier world by putting less of a strain on the farming industry. You think what we eat in north America is real fruit? Try going to place like Japan and taste what a real apple is like. Because food producers need to feed all the cattle and "livestock" PLUS everyone in the country (and outside the country via export) they need to genetically modify food and douse it with what amounts to miracle grow, as well as pesticides. I haven't had a strawberry that tastes like a strawberry since I was a kid. I can't be the only one who has noticed the difference in taste of food in the past 10 years...

I thought it was because vegans practice the most evil religion in the world