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Post #793798 - Reply to (#793795) by Aleph0
Member

10:42 pm, Nov 22 2021
Posts: 378


Quote from Aleph0
Ahahah touché 🤣

My comment contained no jokes, or anything else that is, at all, amusing…
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your oversimplification of the issue regarding politicians.

Oversimplification? How so?
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They obviously cannot enact any short-term unpopular but long-term beneficial reforms if they're voted out right away (and those reforms get repealed soon after)

1. That shows a serious flaw in the current system.
2. Yes they can …and, in the long run, such politicians would gain respect. (something that most politicians do not have)
3. Unpopular? Unpopular among whom? Why is it unpopular?

Generally, what you call "unpopular", is mainly just unpopular among the rich and powerful. To the extent that it is unpopular among the population, it is only unpopular because they are ignorant (or more often deeply misinformed), about it

…though, to some extent, some efforts will seem bad/dubious to the layman, despite anyone who looks into it properly and knows the issues well, sees that it is clearly good.
But that is part of why we have political representatives, who are given the power to make the decisions, rather than letting people vote on every single thing (granted, the obvious practical concerns, are the main reason, but still…)
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so they'll push forward some crowd-pleasing policies to maximize their reelection chances

Except they practically never do that.
They do what pleases themselves, and the rich and powerful.
Not the crowds.

They try to manipulate the information, to get people to think that what they are doing is good, and what they oppose is bad. To make the people think that what they'd want to get, is impossible, and that the efforts of the politicians are as far as you could possibly go, even if it is very far from it.
That isn't crowd-pleasing.
It is crowd-fooling.
It is being manipulative.

Well, they sometimes get the crowd to be concerned with a scapegoat, and push for policies in regards to that, but…
That isn't being crowd-pleasing.
It is being manipulative.
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so I guess ultimately every country has the politicians it deserves...

That assumed that every country is a proper, informed, free, and properly representative democracy.
…which they most certainly are not.
(specially when it comes to countries with majoritarian voting systems, such as, e.g., the UK and US)

Post #793799 - Reply to (#793796) by Amplify1
Member

11:50 pm, Nov 22 2021
Posts: 378


2. … None of that explained anything. I haven't a clue, as to WTH you're talking about.
Quote from Amplify1
Ontop of that, why invite people like serial killers or child molesters etc if you can simply choose not to?

Those are people you put in prison. Obviously.
As all countries do, currently
No society can possibly hope to function, without doing so.
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3. Not freedom to break laws … I thought I'd made that clear?

Irrelevant, and not something I addressed.
I questioned what your view would be, in regards to what the laws would be, in regards to freedom. What the policy/attitude/ideology would be, in regards to laws that touch on freedom.
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The freedom to go about your life and make of it as you will without interference so long as you don't harm others in the process

How far would you take that?
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Heck I could make an argument for no seatbelts if you like even, but the point is I'm more concerned about the passerbys than the car driver. If somebody wants to kill themselves by not wearing a seatbelt that's their choice, what's not okay would be hitting pedestrians as they can't reasonably choose to not be run over but the driver can make a choice to not be thrown through the windshield in the event of an accident. Does that make sense?

It kinda makes sense. You've made your logic clear
…and is utterly wrong and abhorrent.
A rather callous and psychopathic view, IMO.
It's fine for them to die, rather than live and grow/improve and learn the wisdom of using seatbelts… etc?
Especially when it comes to those who are reckless, due to psychological issues.
You think society should just let those people get themselves killed…
Not really terribly different, to killing them, if you think about it.

Also, your assumption that it doesn't harm others, is wrong.
Aside from taking up emergency and medical resources, there is the issue of the people left behind, mourning their loss, the loss of potential… (when I say loss of potential: I'm not proposing that people be forced to do what is deemed to be most valuable to society, but… if they are allowed to live, they will still, most likely, do good in some way. At least under the system I'd implement …under which they would, most likely, also eventually become better and wiser people)
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A: How so? Please explain.

You cease to have any real choice.
Your choices are meaningless.
You become, practically speaking, no more than a mindless machine, going through the motions.
(on that subject: I recommend reading the Dune books. And I mean Frank Herbert's ones. Not the later ones)
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The purpose of 2 is to help make it so that's a complete non-issue

It wouldn't even come close to addressing the issue, in any way, much less solve it or make it a non-issue.
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I also don't remember saying one single thing about punishment or jailing, so I've no idea where you've pulled that from.

Laws without enforcement, are not laws. They are no more than a worthless fiction.
The same applies to commands.
You cannot be a ruler, if you do not have laws. If you make no commands.
You would just be a guy stating his opinions.
Nothing more.
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We're talking absolute theoreticals here

…and even theoretically, it's unfeasible.
And would be terrible.
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As for what it'd show I'm talking mostly very simplified stats here, Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, (whatever) along with satiety, thirst and maybe one or two other things along those lines that anybody can understand.

Such grossly over-simplistic "stats", would only serve to mislead, and misinform.
It would mean that people would get a FAR WORSE understanding of things.

And it would all the more easily lead to despondency, resignation, arrogance, discrimination… etc.
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The point is to give people knowledge and affirmation for if something is helping or even harming them

…
You think that people do bad things, because they don't realise it is harmful?
…or that people who don't trust the experts, would trust their "stats-sheet"?
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it's difficult for people to keep something up even if they know it's supposed to be helping them unless they quickly start to see some results and a simple stat menu can give them that assurance that it is indeed helping them.

…
That is kinda true, but…
Most things where that would be an issue, are issues where the progress is very slow, whether you can see it or not, so…
It wouldn't really help much, if at all
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Likewise the opposite is true and if somebody were to take drugs and see their constitution start to drop or whatever else that could be the motivation to stop doing that before the damage becomes severe.

WTF are you talking about?
You think people who take drugs, give the faintest shit about any of that?
…or that they are able to just simply quit taking a drug, that they are addicted to?
You clearly have NO understanding of drugs, how/why people start taking drugs (and it certainly isn't because they think it's good, or that it is harmless), or how people get off of them.
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Some people are pretty much going to be insecure or discriminated against no matter what

No.
Absolutely not!
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this would hopefully at least give them visible goals they can work towards and the motivation to push forward if they can see themselves reaching said goals step by step.

Hell no!
It would show them how shit they are, and make them miserable and hopeless about it. Demotivate them.
You have no understanding of psychology, human behaviour, what affects behaviour, what encourages/discourages behavioural change, what increases/decreases motivation/confidence…
…
"Ignorance is bliss", I suppose…
You clearly know nothing, of those who are in a bad place.
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without any coercion, forcing, pampering/…/

…
See the bit above, where I talked about laws and enforcement…
As to no "pampering"…
WTH does that mean?
No helping people who are down on their luck, gotten into accidents, have disabilities…
Anyone who takes a chance on an invention/business idea that doesn't work out, should be allowed to utterly fail and be unable to survive? (hence utterly discouraging people from taking chances, and severely limiting progress)
I suspect not.
Saying "no pampering" is meaningless, unless one first explains what one means by pampering.

I would, for example, implement a Universal Basic Income (enough to live on. Not just survive, mind you, but live) along with a housing guarantee (nothing fancy. A guarantee of decent basic housing. For anything better, you'd have to pay for the difference, from your own pocket).
Something some may regard as pampering

(speaking of which: I would also put in place strict laws and regulations, making sure that any and all politicians and journalists, have not salary/wages [also no stocks, investment funds, or anything like that], and get no significant gifts from anyone or anything, to avoid any risk of bribery, conflicts of interest, corrupt incentives, undue influence… etc. Naturally, they'd get expenses …but only for the basics. You have to go to travel to a meeting? You get basic plane tickets paid for, and a basic/cheap hotel, and basic/cheap meals. If they want better, they'll have to pay for the difference, from their own pocket.
Politicians and journalists are supposed to serve the public. To do what they do, from a desire to improve the world. Not to enrich themselves, or get fame and power …so why give them high salaries, and luxurious expenses? Why ensure that the people who decide the laws and policies, are restricted to those who are rich and out-of-touch with the majority of people? Especially out-of-touch with the poorest?)
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and as little interference as is possible from me.

I kinda agree there.
I'd say as little interference as is necessary from me. (eventually letting me stand back and observe …and finally leave)
And as little interference as is needed/necessary from the State/county/municipality/whatever.

P.S.
Regarding overly simplistic stats: Just look at people who try to lose weight. They've got weight measurements (some have, if quite crude and imprecise, some measure of body fat percentage), but that is pretty useless and misleading, by itself. (not to mention the frankly idiotic use of BMI, on an individual. BMI can be used as a rough guide, in regards to the health of a population. It is completely useless, in assessing anything about an individual. It cannot tell if your over-/under-weight)
People try some fad diet, a lot of which (if they can keep to it) often do lead to quick losses in weight …which eventually leads to them gaining all of the weight back (and then some), as well as making it more difficult for them to lose weight. Anything that makes you quickly lose weight, is very counterproductive
…whilst seeming to be great, for someone who pays attention to the numbers.
Leading to a lot of people, having their weight go up and down like a yo-yo, in their desperate efforts to lose weight.
The actual science (unlike the pseudoscience that is plastered all over magazines, and so-called news sources [science journalism, especially when it comes to exercise and nutrition, is abysmal]) suggests a diet that gives you results that are pretty much unnoticeable, in the short term. It takes years, to notice that it's having an effect. (and even that won't necessarily be able to have anywhere near as great an effect as you'd want. Maybe medical science will be able to help with that, eventually, but…)
Despite having clear numbers.

Last edited by zarlan at 12:05 am, Nov 23

Post #793800
user avatar
Member

12:11 am, Nov 23 2021
Posts: 63


Are uh. Some of y'all alright? I'm genuinely concerned about how much investment people are putting into this hypothetical and the tangents they're going on. That being said, it's also strangely way more civil than usual, so you know what, if this is your outlet, go for it. Chase your bliss

As for my answer, I think it's more fun more indirectly involved instead. Not in like a secret society Illuminati kind of way, but like in a gag manga where the most popular kid in school who's like "woe is me, it is raining and I didn't bring my umbrella today." And then suddenly everyone rushes to give them various means of coverage, each more ridiculous and elaborate than the last. What started with borrowing umbrellas escalates plans of building a hallway that extends from the school front to their home, which escalates even further into solving global warming so that off season rainstorms are no longer an issue. But then they step outside and the clouds somehow only part for them. A Teruhashi, if you will. Nothing will get done. Things would probably get worse. It would be hilarious though. I want to express mild inconvenience about waiting in traffic and then a minute later city planning and infrastructure is fixed forever (along with probably a ten car pileup in the meantime)

Post #793810 - Reply to (#793765) by residentgrigo
user avatar
Member

3:00 am, Nov 23 2021
Posts: 561


Now I kind of want to watch it to see how many strange changes they made. But yeah, all those changes seem horrible. I’m not sure why they would look at the character whose only personality traits are Ambitious and Hates Spike and think ‘this dude should be in every episode’, especially since the various bounties act as antagonists and the series doesn’t need an ever-present main villain. I’m also invested in Jet’s love life since Ganymede Elegy was the only episode that I felt super differently about when I watched it as an adult!!

Post #793812 - Reply to (#793797) by zarlan
Member

4:49 am, Nov 23 2021
Posts: 128


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Yeah, you really shouldn't spout ignorant uninformed nonsense, with great conviction and certainty, as if what you are saying is the truth, is fact, about subjects of which you clearly know absolutely nothing.


Please take your own advice. Enough is enough [of your delusional bullshit].

The rhetoric you use when you talk about people/being a misanthrope is not some divine insight that you've gained because of your acute understanding of others; it's literally the same way incels delude themselves for protection. Everyone else. Everyone else. You're a social pariah for a reason and you need to deal with it. If you keep cowering under the blanket of "it's not me, it's them", you're never, and I do mean never ever ever ever ever fucking ever fulfill your desire for human companionship. If you can't see the good in us, how do you expect us to see the good in you? A cable needs to be connected in both ends, sport.

Go to a shrink and/or read some psychology. Apply what you learn. It's a process.

Find people that are mentally healthy to be around, and to use as models for growth.
Mark Manson is a good start. He's an acclaimed author and has a website and youtube. He knows what he's talking about, and this whole schtick your brain is doing to you is one of his fortes.

Work out. I'm only guessing, but the way your brain is wired doesn't sound like someone that exercises (keeps your mind from going insane in the membrane).

But what do I know. I'm not fit to be ruler of the world, and you are. Then again, you were heavily into the idea of taking advice from those that had their own areas of expertise. This is mine. So, gonna heed? Or fall back on your words the moment you need to? It's okay if you do, all the other cool leaders do it too.

Post #793823 - Reply to (#793799) by zarlan
user avatar
Member

8:44 pm, Nov 23 2021
Posts: 23


Honestly this will probably be my last comment on this, or I'll just respond to one or two specific parts, as I don't have the time for comments that are this long. I've been typing bits of it slowly over the day in my bits of free time and can't keep that up long term.

2:
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… None of that explained anything. I haven't a clue, as to WTH you're talking about.

Okay, I'll try laying it out again, as clearly and simply as possible:
- The omnipotent being uses their ability as a god to create a second earth, or earth like planet.
- They take everybody worthwhile who wants to come, to the second earth.
- Anybody else gets left behind to live on the original earth.
I don't know how much simpler than that I can make it.
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Those are people you put in prison. Obviously.

Not my problem, they wouldn't be invited to come, as I keep trying to make clear and for some reason you don't understand.

3:
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It kinda makes sense. You've made your logic clear
…and is utterly wrong and abhorrent.

It's not wrong, and it can be proven statistically. Look back in history to deaths caused by car accidents and if you compare the numbers before and after seat belts are invented then with seat belts there are (obviously) fewer deaths, great.
However if you break down that statistic further you'll find that while the number of car drivers who died dropped significantly, the number of pedestrians who were getting killed actually increased! The reason for this is because with the new found assurance that they would be far less likely to die in the event of an accident, car drivers started going faster and more recklessly which ended up with more pedestrians being hit and at higher speeds, resulting in additional deaths on that front. Yes, seat belts save lives overall if you look no deeper than the surface, but seat belts kill pedestrians.

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It's fine for them to die, rather than live and grow/improve and learn the wisdom of using seatbelts… etc?

Hopefully you won't get yourself killed in the process so that you can learn a valuable lesson and be far more careful next time, but there's a major point which is where I think our major disconnect is here:
The government is not your parents.
The government or ruling body etc exists to make sure you can live your life with little to no impeding, just making sure that the country still runs and that your voice is represented on the international stage. It is not there to protect you from yourselves, only from others. You yourself ultimately have to be the one to decide that sticking a metal fork in your nearest wall socket is a bad idea, you cannot expect the government to forcefully slap it out of your hand and mandate that you have a plastic covering over it that physically prevents you from doing so. They can make all the information available so that you can make an informed choice sure, but if you want to be stupid then the only one who can ultimately stop you is you.

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Especially when it comes to those who are reckless, due to psychological issues.
You think society should just let those people get themselves killed…

As I've previously said, I'd want to put things into place that would get people the help they need, or at least see about making sure only those who are mentally well enough do things that are potentially lethal.
You seem to enjoy assuming the worst, jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth, and frankly it's getting tiresome.

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Aside from taking up emergency and medical resources, there is the issue of the people left behind, mourning their loss, the loss of potential… (when I say loss of potential: I'm not proposing that people be forced to do what is deemed to be most valuable to society, but… if they are allowed to live, they will still, most likely, do good in some way. At least under the system I'd implement …under which they would, most likely, also eventually become better and wiser people)

I already hand-waved the first part as I'm assuming that healthcare is a complete non-issue as It would need to be basically infinite and renewable to the level of seeming like waving a magical wand.
It is the job of the "people left behind" to tell them to wear a seatbelt, or otherwise persuade them not to do (dangerous thing).

A:
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You cease to have any real choice.
Your choices are meaningless.
You become, practically speaking, no more than a mindless machine, going through the motions.

Where the fuck do you get that from?
It would, each day, give people some advice that they can look up and follow if they so choose that would lead them in the right direction for that person's most fulfilling life. It would not be mandatory, it would not be an exact instruction list to follow robotically and you would still have to choose exactly how you want to go doing it, it would effectively be a self-help book that is uniquely tailored to each individual and their circumstances for that given day.

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It wouldn't even come close to addressing the issue, in any way, much less solve it or make it a non-issue.

You self admittedly don't even have the slightest clue what I was talking about, yet you want to say it can't work?

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Laws without enforcement, are not laws. They are no more than a worthless fiction.
The same applies to commands.
You cannot be a ruler, if you do not have laws. If you make no commands.
You would just be a guy stating his opinions.
Nothing more.

Okay, now please how me where I said that there would be no enforcement.

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…and even theoretically, it's unfeasible.
And would be terrible.

The genie of the lamp can create an omnipotent god, he can create a stats menu.

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Such grossly over-simplistic "stats", would only serve to mislead, and misinform.
It would mean that people would get a FAR WORSE understanding of things.

And it would all the more easily lead to despondency, resignation, arrogance, discrimination…

This could be addressed as easily as the menu telling you what triggered the change in stats. As for the rest you're going to have to justify your claims.

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…You think that people do bad things, because they don't realise it is harmful?
…or that people who don't trust the experts, would trust their "stats-sheet"?

Some don't, not all. There's a limit to what you can do to help people help themselves without being intrusive and forcing them. Also considering that the stats sheer would be automatic and infallible, it'd be your loss if you don't trust it for whatever reason.
Do you want the government to rule over everybody with an iron fist, to force everybody to not do anything ever that could potentially harm themselves, to put foam padding on every sharp corner and make it impossible for you to so much as scrape your knee?
Because if not that's the sort of assuming you keep throwing at me, and if yes then frankly you're a lunatic.

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WTF are you talking about?
You think people who take drugs, give the faintest shit about any of that?
…or that they are able to just simply quit taking a drug, that they are addicted to?

If they want to keep talking drugs to the point of addiction then they'd have to keep going through repeated stat drops and seeing it harm themselves. They also wouldn't be able to simply dismiss it as the drug not being harmful and something else being the cause of their failing health. If they do get addicted, go to the 100% cure all health service and get cleaned up. I will not slap the drugs out of their hands and tell them not to take them, they themselves have to be the ones to take that critical first step.

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No.
Absolutely not!

Yes. Absolutely. If you have some delusion running through your head where it is even remotely possible that everybody holds hands and sings kumbaya forever with nothing bad ever happening, forget about it. Add any amount of magical handwaving problems away and you will still have basic human nature as the problem. If you want to forcefully make it so that discrimination is impossible then you will end up down a path of lobotomizing people.

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Hell no!
It would show them how shit they are, and make them miserable and hopeless about it. Demotivate them.
You have no understanding of psychology, human behaviour, what affects behaviour, what encourages/discourages behavioural change, what increases/decreases motivation/confidence…
…
"Ignorance is bliss", I suppose…
You clearly know nothing, of those who are in a bad place.

That's rich, coming from you. It's also irrelevant, because if you are not willing to do a single thing to help your situation then I'm not willing to help either. No excuses, if you want to drown in your own misery and let it consume you, then that is on you. You cannot expect to be given a free piggyback ride to the goal, I do not give one single solitary fuck how feeling depressed and hopeless you're feeling. I can do everything reasonably possible to avoid you reaching that hopeless situation, I can do everything to illuminate the path out of it, but if you want to be forcefully pulled out of it by the government? Never going to happen, you must be willing to at least do something to help yourself. No exceptions.

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As to no "pampering"…
WTH does that mean?

As I said previously, the government is not your parents. They are not there to pick you up if you fall down, or make you feel better or anything like that.
I can make it so that the path in front of you is as straight as is reasonably possible.
I can raise the valleys and lower the hills of it as much as is reasonably possible.
I can illuminate the next step of the path so that as much as is reasonably possible, so you'll know which way it is to the goal and to reduce the possibility of you tripping over some hidden pitfall to the absolute minimum.
I can send you some indirect encouragement however I can.
But, you absolutely *must* be the one who walks that path without government assistance on your own, one foot after the other. I cannot stress this hard enough. That first step may feel hard or even insurmountable, but I promise you each step after it will be a little bit easier to take. I don't guarantee you will never fall or fail, but I promise you that if you pick yourself up and keep trying you will succeed.
Indirectly shielding you from harm is perfectly fine and done as much as possible, but only indirectly.

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I would, for example, implement a Universal Basic Income (enough to live on. Not just survive, mind you, but live) along with a housing guarantee (nothing fancy. A guarantee of decent basic housing. For anything better, you'd have to pay for the difference, from your own pocket).
Something some may regard as pampering

It would be pampering if you do it for nothing, I would have a similar system but rather than simply handing it out the housing guarantee would take some at least slight effort on the part of the person involved. As for universal basic income", I wouldn't go with that path, rather I'd make it so that it's possible to live life without ever needing to use money, as long as you're okay with the fact that it would obviously be a pretty meager existence.

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speaking of which... (trimmed)

I'd just more or less eliminate the need for politicians entirely, since there's an omnipotent god around I can cheaty handwave things by having him know what the ideal solution for any given area would be that most closely fits that part of the country, tailor made for them, then have somebody follow that list. No room for corruption if you're only allowed to follow a set script.
As for the media, people would be made able to instantly see through any bullshit and know how worthwhile it is to trust a given journalist through any number of methods, no reporting partisan bs and hiding behind a shield, let's have some decent and accurate news for once.

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Regarding overly simplistic stats

Basically, the stats menu would have to be fine tuned to make the consequences (immediate and long term) of anything readily apparent.

Member

11:50 pm, Nov 23 2021
Posts: 107


I'd do it just to spank Russia & China

Post #793826 - Reply to (#793812) by Jooles
Member

7:34 am, Nov 24 2021
Posts: 378


Quote from Jooles
Please take your own advice. Enough is enough [of your delusional bullshit].

…
Ceiye talked about this discussion being relatively civil, to my amusement and agreement …but straight after that…

You call it delusional, despite the fact that you cannot point to a single flaw in what I said, a single argument or claim of mine, that is wrong, or defence for the things I've argued against.

In other words: You are making a completely baseless accusation.
What you are uttering, is no more than cheap slander
…and you're too dishonest and cowardly, to actually back up, or defend your words or positions, and instead stoop to lazy and dishonest tactics.
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The rhetoric you use when you talk about people/being a misanthrope is not some divine insight that you've gained because of your acute understanding of others; it's literally the same way incels delude themselves for protection. Everyone else. Everyone else. You're a social pariah for a reason and you need to deal with it.

That comment could possibly make some sense, IF it weren't for the clear and undeniable fact, that no one has ever even attempted to explain what the reason(s) would be, for how I am treated, what exactly it is that I've done wrong, or how/why it is wrong.
As no one ever bothers to do so, much less make any arguments that aren't riddled with holes (obvious fallacies, clearly erroneous "facts" and premisses…), there is no way in which I could possibly believe that the fault lies with me.

By no means do I claim to be perfect, or that I am always right.
On the contrary, if and when someone can properly demonstrate to me (or even if they, in some other way, lead me to realise) that I am wrong about something, even in cases where being wrong would be very embarrassing and/or uncomfortable (and even if the person who pointed it out, is an idiot and/or arsehole …as has been the case, on occasion), I invariably accept and acknowledge it, and thank the person who lead me to realise it.
For they have, whoever they are and whatever their motives, not only taught me something but also, far more importantly, rid me of a misconception.
They have made me more right, less wrong, more knowledgeable, and a better person, and for that, I should express my gratitude.

As I have done.
Many times.

…and practically no one else ever does!
It is very rare, for people other than me, to have the humility or lack of arrogance, to ever admit to being wrong (except maybe about something very minor), much less thank the person who pointed it out.
Most people have too fragile an overblown ego, to allow for that.
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If you keep cowering under the blanket of "it's not me, it's them", you're never, and I do mean never ever ever ever ever fucking ever fulfill your desire for human companionship.

Oh really?
Well then, enlighten me:
What about my behaviour is wrong?
How and why is it wrong?
…and what claims have I made here, that were wrong, and how/why are they wrong?
Will you answer?
I am always open to honest and reasonable criticism.
Preferably civil, but I don't mind if it is frankly vile, as long as there is proper substance along with the vulgarity. (dishonesty and/or irrationality, however…)

…or are you just spouting all this hate, because you know that you have no valid or sensible answers, to what I have said?
Because you simply cannot give any possible retort, in an honest debate, making you so frustrated and angry (because you ego cannot accept "defeat" [debate/discussion should never be seen as winning or losing, but as refining/challenging ones understanding and getting closer to the truth], cannot accept that you may be wrong) that you resort to ad hominem attacks?
…because that is, frankly, nothing more than an admission of fault, when you think about it.
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Go to a shrink and/or read some psychology. Apply what you learn. It's a process.

HAH!
Don't try to teach a grandma how to suck eggs.
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Find people that are mentally healthy to be around

Find me some, and I'll gladly do so.
If there are any.
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Mark Manson is a good start. He's an acclaimed author and has a website and youtube.

I don't know him, and nor do you.
How do I know that he isn't dishonest, arrogant, immature, stupid, foolish, immoral etc?
Still, that doesn't necessarily mean he can't be a good source for psychology info, so I looked him up, and…
…
Not a single mention of any praise from proper reliable experts, nor that he has any relevant degrees or credentials, nor that he's published anything that's been peer-reviewed.
He does mention that the stuff he presents, is taken from evidence based research, sure (and an enthusiastic amateur, who properly presents the science, can still be good and reliable), but given how what he presents, in his "about" page is all tons mentions of him being a bestselling author, and the various magazines and news programs he's been on and that kind of stuff…
Yeah…
No.
He sounds very fishy. Very BS.
Much like 99.9% of all "self-help" guys/books.
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Work out. I'm only guessing, but the way your brain is wired doesn't sound like someone that exercises (keeps your mind from going insane in the membrane).

Though exercise (which everyone should do, regularly) has great positive effects on both physical and mental health, and ones emotions…
That presumption is clearly invalid.
A person can be far more miserable and cynical than me, whilst doing regular exercise or as happy and optimistic as can be, whilst being a couch potato.
Exercise absolutely has an effect …but it is far from determinative.
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But what do I know. I'm not fit to be ruler of the world, and you are.

…
I'm gonna assume that you made a slight mistake here. Given the phrasing and context, I find it rather unlikely that you meant to say that I am fit to rule the world.
(though I wouldn't call you a hypocrite, for saying so despite all your criticisms. It is possible to say that someone is severely flawed in many ways, but still more fit to perform a certain task than many a person without those flaws …depending on the flaws/task/severity in question)
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Then again, you were heavily into the idea of taking advice from those that had their own areas of expertise. This is mine. So, gonna heed?

You didn't present advice, you just presented bile and disagreement.
…
Well okay, technically you suggested:
* I consult/learn about psychology
…as if I'm not already doing that, and have a better understanding of it, than anyone in this thread. Well, I've never seen an actual psychologist, sure, but that's certainly not for lack of trying… Not for my misanthropy, mind you, but my depression and irregular sleep–wake rhythm disorder. I've often gotten sent to (severely incompetent) psychiatrists …even though that's kinda like sending someone with a urinary infection, to a dentist.
* that I exercise
…based on an completely invalid, irrelevant, and baseless presumption (well sure, it is something everyone should absolutely do, regardless, but…), as well as being something that you don't often get people to do, just by telling/convincing them that it's a good idea. Getting people to be convinced that they should do a certain thing, is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition, for getting them to start doing it. That's not how humans function.
* … I suppose you might claim that, that first sentence is advice? …but it's a clear and obvious, baseless lie. As if I'd ever do anything, that I condemn others for. Unlike… well everyone but me (at least, that is what my experience tells me), I am not a hypocrite.

So…
You haven't really given any advice that is significant and relevant.
You've mainly just spouted hate and anger.
Not exactly what I'd call "constructive".

Post #793827 - Reply to (#793823) by Amplify1
Member

9:11 am, Nov 24 2021
Posts: 378


I guess the civility continues to drop…
Can't say I'm surprised, of course, what with my experiences here …and with humanity in general.
Quote from Amplify1
Honestly this will probably be my last comment on this, or I'll just respond to one or two specific parts, as I don't have the time for comments that are this long. I've been typing bits of it slowly over the day in my bits of free time and can't keep that up long term.

Understandable.
Complicated conversations do get a bit complicated and involved. It's a lot to deal with.
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Okay, I'll try laying it out again, as clearly and simply as possible:

You just re-stated how you propose making a second Earth and inviting people to it
The one and only bit of #2, that was always clear and understandable, and which I NEVER asked about or expressed any confusion or lack of comprehension towards.
…without ANY explanation of, or even so much as addressing how or why it would be necessary and/or beneficial.
…so no.
That did NOT explain anything.
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Not my problem, they wouldn't be invited to come, as I keep trying to make clear and for some reason you don't understand.

Except for the ones who do it, AFTER being invited.
Or the children of those who were invited.
…and saying that you'd exile them to the OG Earth, isn't a solution. It's just moving the problem, to somewhere else. (or are you saying that the people in OG Earth don't matter? 'Cause that sounds like the attitude of a psychopath)
Also, the people on the OG Earth who do it, have to be dealt with. (i.e. be put in prison)
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It's not wrong, and it can be proven statistically.

Statistically? Are you for real?
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Yes, seat belts save lives overall if you look no deeper than the surface, but seat belts kill pedestrians.

…
I'll not even bother replying to those… audacious claims.
None of that address the point that was argued, for which seat belt laws were only a convenient example. (well… usually convenient)

You didn't give any relevant reply, to my arguments/counter-arguments, but instead spouted a complete Red Herring.
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Hopefully you won't get yourself killed in the process so that you can learn a valuable lesson and be far more careful next time

…
So you're fine with letting tons of people die needlessly and pointlessly. You think, if they're not smart enough, then let them die?
That also kinda sounds like the argument of libertarians, that you don't need health regulations for restaurants, because people will just avoid the places where you risk getting poisoned …except you can't know if a place is risky (even if it's been risk-free for ages. You can have a change of rules/regulations/staff/boss), until someone dies there, and you're just as likely as anyone else, of being the first one.
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The government is not your parents.

The people who say that, are invariably talking of not government overreach, but more a desire for pretty much anarchy and letting people fend for themselves
(…and also typically for parents to have far too great a power, over their children)
They are perfectly fine with great impediments to ones freedom …as long as they are private impediments, rather than public/government impediments. (leading to far less overall freedom)
…and with what followed, you showed yourself to be no exception.
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It is not there to protect you from yourselves

Why not?
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They can make all the information available so that you can make an informed choice

No they can't.
No one can.
Humans are not all knowing (or knowing all that humanity knows), nor are they capable of being so.

The notion that people are, or can be, aware of all the options and all the facts, to be able to make informed decisions, is an absurd fiction.
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As I've previously said, I'd want to put things into place that would get people the help they need

How so?
…and even if you have every possible thing in place, to get them the help they need, that would only somewhat reduce it from happening. It could never prevent it from ever happening. It would still happen, with some regularity.
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or at least see about making sure only those who are mentally well enough do things that are potentially lethal.

We're not talking about something as relatively harmless, as extreme sports here.
What possible reason could there exist, to allow it? …and how would someone who would do it, be "mentally well"?
Also, as I've said:
The notion that it doesn't affect others, is flawed.
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You seem to enjoy assuming the worst, jumping to conclusions and putting words in my mouth, and frankly it's getting tiresome.

…says the guy who has as made bizarre and inexplicable mistaken assumptions about what I've said?

I am simply recognizing the consequences of what you say. Thinking about it, on more than just a superficial level. (I say "thinking", but I recognize the flaws instantly/automatically as soon as I read it, without need for any conscious thought. Not that I don't put further thought into it, after having read it, of course but…)
If you can't see beyond any more than one or two steps deep into the things you are proposing, then the fault is not on me.

…and it's not my fault that you are utterly terrible, at expressing yourself. I'm not that good at it myself, but I'm light-years above you.
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I already hand-waved the first part as I'm assuming that healthcare is a complete non-issue

Why would you do that? That makes no sense.
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as It would need to be basically infinite and renewable to the level of seeming like waving a magical wand.

It would need to be? Based on what?
…and the scenario is that you'd magically be the ruler of the world, not that you'd be omnipotent.
Quote
It is the job of the "people left behind" to tell them to wear a seatbelt, or otherwise persuade them not to do (dangerous thing).

It's kinda hard to convince a dead person.
…and a permanent cripple is a permanent cripple, regardless of whether he/she learns his/her lesson.
Quote
Where the fuck do you get that from?

That's pretty rich, coming from the person who spouts tons of inexplicable non sequiturs, without any hint of an explanation… and who misinterprets clear statements, and frequently gives completely irrelevant replies… (indicating a clear failure to understand what was said …and/or dishonesty)

To answer the question:
WTF do you mean? How could it be otherwise? …and I just explained it, didn't I?
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It would not be mandatory

Your point being…?
You can follow the set route like a mindless robot, you can seek to rebel against it, or it can make you can lose all hope/will and become apathetic.
Neither alternative is anything short of miserable.
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You self admittedly don't even have the slightest clue what I was talking about, yet you want to say it can't work?

…
As I've stated above, I never so much as hinted at an implication, that I didn't have the slightest clue, as to what the measure is, that you talk about.
Now give an actual answer!
Quote
Okay, now please how me where I said that there would be no enforcement.

Sure!
(emphasis mine)
"I also don't remember saying one single thing about punishment or jailing, so I've no idea where you've pulled that from."
"I want them to have any and all possible knowledge and means to obtain happiness and fulfillment (sic) without any coercion, forcing, pampering and as little interference as is possible from me."
Quote
The genie of the lamp can create an omnipotent god, he can create a stats menu.

The genie of the lamp, cannot create something that is logically inconsistent and incoherent. That is simply an impossibility, regardless of whatever magic explanation you use.
Well, except if you completely change humanity and/or the laws of physics, such that you have a world where it would work
…but then you'd have a completely different and unrecognizable world, or at least "humans" who are no longer anything like humans, being completely different and unrecognizable.
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This could be addressed as easily as the menu telling you what triggered the change in stats.

That wouldn't make much of a difference.
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As for the rest you're going to have to justify your claims.

…
Seriously?
You seriously don't see the obvious reasons ways in which it would have those effects?
…
If you can't, then you're so idiotic, that you're beyond help.
Quote
There's a limit to what you can do to help people help themselves without being intrusive and forcing them.

The stats-sheet is intrusive. (and misguided)
Quote
Also considering that the stats sheer would be automatic and infallible

…and people should obviously trust that it is, because…?
Quote
Do you want the government to rule over everybody with an iron fist, to force everybody to not do anything ever that could potentially harm themselves, to put foam padding on every sharp corner and make it impossible for you to so much as scrape your knee?

Just because you're suggesting one extreme, doesn't mean that I am for the opposite extreme.
I am for using some sense. Generally allowing, but putting reasonable limits. Like most countries do. (though one can argue about where exactly they draw the line, and the exact nature of the limits, in some cases)
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Because if not that's the sort of assuming you keep throwing at me, and if yes then frankly you're a lunatic.

A lot of what you call "assuming" is actually either questions, simply what you've actually said …or not "assumptions" but "conclusions" based on what you're saying and what that means, its consequences, and what it leads to.
Quote
If they want to keep talking drugs to the point of addiction

*facepalm*
Seriously, just stop.
You're embarrassing yourself.
Quote
If you have some delusion running through your head where it is even remotely possible that everybody holds hands and sings kumbaya forever with nothing bad ever happening, forget about it.

That has nothing to do with the issue at hand.
Mentioning irrelevant things, isn't going to make you right.
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That's rich, coming from you.

How so? Because I keep saying how shit everyone is?
…
That makes sense, but I've never claimed that I'm an expert on changing peoples behaviour.
Quote
It's also irrelevant, because if you are not willing to do a single thing to help your situation then I'm not willing to help either.

Okay, so you admit you're a psychopath, who doesn't give a shit about others, and whose attitude is abhorrent to phycologists, or anyone other relevant authority in these matters…
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I can raise the valleys and lower the hills of it as much as is reasonably possible.

You have made it clear, that you won't. That you are unwilling. That you regard it as "pampering".
Quote
without government assistance on your own, one foot after the other.

…regardless of whether or not you're in a position of being able to do so, or in a situation where it is extremely difficult…
Yeah, you're a psycho.
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It would be pampering if you do it for nothing

UBI is no strings attached.
By definition.
It is saying that people deserve, to be allowed to live.
Quote
but rather than simply handing it out the housing guarantee would take some at least slight effort on the part of the person involved.

You do realise that being homeless makes any effort to improve, getting a job, or getting a home, extremely difficult, even if you make every effort?
…and that it is far cheaper for a country, to simply give the homeless homes, rather than dealing with the costs of the people being homeless?
…and how UBI, without a housing guarantee, would lead to massively inflating the cost of housing?
Quote
I'd just more or less eliminate the need for politicians entirely

So you'd go with an eternal dictatorship?
Never allowing democracy.
Quote
As for the media, people would be made able to instantly see through any bullshit and know how worthwhile it is to trust a given journalist through any number of methods, no reporting partisan bs and hiding behind a shield, let's have some decent and accurate news for once.

How would you do that?
None of what you've proposed, including the omnipotent god (where the hell did that come from?), would achieve that.
Quote
Basically, the stats menu would have to be fine tuned to make the consequences (immediate and long term) of anything readily apparent.

How?

Post #793828
user avatar
Member

2:11 pm, Nov 24 2021
Posts: 164


Wow, nice effort in the posting, people. Too Long, Didn't Read, anyway.

I wouldn't rule the world completely and totally, no. No one would be able to make the world a "better place" because you can change the rules, but you can't change the people. And the problem in the world is the people. It's not something a single human being can change, no matter how much authority he/she has.

________________
Yes, you're worthy!
Post #793829 - Reply to (#793827) by zarlan
user avatar
Member

4:01 pm, Nov 24 2021
Posts: 23


Quote
I guess the civility continues to drop…

You've been repeatedly accusing me of being psychotic since your second post, it was never there.

2, if you can't understand by now I guess you'll never understand. This world wouldn't work for everyone and not everybody would be worthy of it as they'd just be more interested in inflicting unhappiness on those around them for their own jollies or selfish gains. If you can't understand what there is to gain by not inviting those people in that the people who are invited would be happier in the absence of people who are a net negative, I can't help you.
Quote
Except for the ones who do it, AFTER being invited.

Wouldn't be invited in the first place, as I keep saying. If you ever would do that stuff after coming, you wouldn't get on the invite list. Why is this so difficult for you to understand? As for the children, if one tries they'd be stopped before they can do so and asked to leave on a one way trip to old earth.
This isn't complicated.
Quote
…and saying that you'd exile them to the OG Earth, isn't a solution. It's just moving the problem, to somewhere else. (or are you saying that the people in OG Earth don't matter? 'Cause that sounds like the attitude of a psychopath)

Is that the only word you know? They are not my problem, the leader of a country needs to be concerned about their own country first and foremost, the earth's fine we're living on it right now. The reason heaven is heaven is because the pearly gates exist. If you think that every single person has to be saved by you and ruled by you, then you have issues.

Trying to compare not wearing a seatbelt (a conscious choice with obvious consequences) to eating at a restaurant with bad food standards that ends up poisoning you is a terrible example. Also the statistics are there, whether you like it or not.

Quote
No they can't.
No one can.
Humans are not all knowing (or knowing all that humanity knows), nor are they capable of being so.

You keep forgetting the omnipotent god in the background here. All knowing. All possible pasts, presents, futures. For everything. At this point I'm not sure if you have low reading comprehension or selective memory or something.

Look, I'll explain a bit more about what I mean for that, the basis for my assumption as it's causing a bit of a logical disconnect here:
The only way for an omnipotent being to appear and rule the planet (as originally mentioned) would be by rubbing a magic lamp and getting three wishes, that sort of thing. Can't happen otherwise.
Since you're wishing for an omnipotent being in existence to rule billions of people here, then depending on how you go about the wish you can get more out of it at the same time for the same wish.
If you wish into existence say, somebody on the level of a MC from the last page of a cultivation novel who's reached the apex of the dao, has the infinity gauntlet and all the power stones, is in control of the heart of the universe or whatever and can effectively create any matter and life, then if persuaded to take up the mantle of ruler by the wish and follows your instructions until the heat death of the sun then not only do you have the omnipotent being but you additionally have somebody who can effectively make the source / dao of life or whatever instantly available to all as a cure-all to fix any and all ailments, but they can conjure up any materials so there's zero possibility of running out of food or any specific material type, along with infinitely renewable energy and knowing if a human would ever turn to murder or whatever else as well as if they could ever possibly be dissuaded from doing so (and how) before they're even born.
That's what I'm basing my claims etc on and handwaving away any problems along the lines of "Where will we get X?" because I can.

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So you'd go with an eternal dictatorship?
Never allowing democracy.

Why would you even need democracy in its current form? It's not a dictatorship it's a new political system entirely. It entirely skips the need for voting for your preferred policy if you just get your ideal policy immediately. If you were to run a democracy infinitely and refine the result over and over until you had the perfect system that suited everybody living under it immaculately with no flaws, you would have the exact same result except it just took a ton of time and red tape to reach the conclusion.
All I'm doing is skipping the time and red tape it took to reach that conclusion, along with any unfortunate incidents or whatever that had to be learned from in the process.

As for the rest of your comment, honestly I can't even be bothered to read it as it's just constant attacks on and assumptions of my character, from the bits after that point I glanced at. It's all so tiresome.

Last edited by Amplify1 at 4:12 pm, Nov 24

Post #793831 - Reply to (#793829) by Amplify1
user avatar
Member

4:20 pm, Nov 24 2021
Posts: 38


You are totally going to get a 1.5k to 2k word reply ><.
Jooles 3-4 short paragraphs got a 1k+ word diatribe reply.
I know a bunch of autistic people which are successful, but the way the guy talks about humans comes off like some alien being with autism, like there is some divine separation between him and the rest of us. Also, saying in one post how kids do nothing to *earn* inheritance from parents.., then in another saying how the world needs universal basic income.
That's why I never reply to him anymore, he will just claim how superior he is to everybody around him (megalomaniac). You know, cause professors totally spend 2-3 hours day writing manuscripts in manga forums.

User Posted Image

Post #793834 - Reply to (#793831) by Peep
user avatar
Member

9:18 pm, Nov 24 2021
Posts: 23


Yeah, I'm really getting that same vibe from him. It's starting to look like he's either an elaborate troll or a delusional idiot at this point. At least it's making it abundantly clear how seriously I should be taking his opinion (read: not at all).

Last edited by Amplify1 at 11:19 pm, Nov 24

Post #793841
user avatar
mmm...
 Member

8:26 am, Nov 25 2021
Posts: 272


If it's only for several days or a week then everything forgotten I might want to do it mmm...
But for prolonged amount of time, no, I'm too lazy to care about the world mmm...

________________
I will change this world mmm...
So the world can change me mmm...
Post #793843 - Reply to (#793829) by Amplify1
Member

1:22 pm, Nov 25 2021
Posts: 378


Quote from Amplify1
You've been repeatedly accusing me of being psychotic since your second post

No I haven't. I was saying that certain things would be psychotic, if you really meant those things. It's in the last post, that I concluded that are a psycho.
Quote
if you can't understand by now

What do you mean "by now"? You've never even addressed the issue, much less explained it.
Quote
Wouldn't be invited in the first place, as I keep saying. If you ever would do that stuff after coming, you wouldn't get on the invite list.

…
I won't bother going any further.

Your idiocy clearly knows no bounds. You are incoherent, nonsensical, and brain dead. Also clearly a psycho, as well as dishonest, but in this case that's frankly secondary, and that's saying quite a lot, given how much I abhor dishonesty and an utter lack of care for others.
It is useless to talk to you, so I won't continue to bother.

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