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Post #676938
ZzZ... zZz...
Site Admin

11:20 pm, Feb 18 2016
Posts: 40


A couple of the titles are stored: http://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?category=LGBT+Cha racter+in+Non-Yaoi%2FYuri+Manga

I suggest any major edits/removal suggestions to be posted in this thread so that everyone can be consulted.

Last edited by holy`bell at 12:36 am, Feb 19

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Post #676942
Member

3:31 am, Feb 19 2016
Posts: 79


I kinda agree that removal of that tag was too hasty, it is not a good idea to silently remove something widely used no matter how justified the change seems to be. But at the same time I agree that it is not particularly useful in its current form.

"LGBT character in non-Yaoi/Yuri manga" is way too broad/ambiguous to be useful for searching purposes. I think that it would be much better to replace it with few more clearly defined tags. For example:
"Lesbian character in non-Yuri/Shoujo Ai" and "Gay character in non-Yaoi/Shounen Ai"

So my proposal is:
Create few more specific tags to cover this topic, tag stuff currently under "LGBT character in non-Yaoi/Yuri manga" with them, and remove "LGBT character..." after that.

Post #676955
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Seinen is RIGHT
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5:16 pm, Feb 19 2016
Posts: 2150


This is how i would do it: Have (at least) 2 people dedicated to the category function.
One of them doesn´t necessary have to do much but can just function as a second opinion.
They then do utterly 100% clear cut no-brainer mergers as Gore with Blood + Gore or the deletion of utter crap as Sexy Woman without even talking to each other.
They should consult each other for the merger of more complicated stuff as let´s say this: "Emotional Roller Coaster sound like a Melodrama" and keep a backlog on such for a set period of time. We never need to hear about any of that, as nothing can be lost with a merger, but posting a mergers list once in a blue moon can´t hurt.

The outright deletion of "established" categories, 25 or more sounds good and are the default setting for the lists, should be stated here first, even if all admins are in agreement, as mistakes will just lead to the loss of information, but even these should have a set age requirement (3-6 month?). Crap can spread pretty fast after all! All the "new" porn tags as Orgy or Foursome, the word of the day is Group Intercourse, come to mind but even most of these are mergers in the end. The same goes for "unpopular" categories which fulfill a certain age requirement as a properly definable job, the new Sex Teacher/s certainly isn´t one none , or a century. We could then make a case for them or bring up tags that can state the same information. I have no problem with the recent deletion of the 4 Borderline demographic X tags, but i would have defended them for example. Dedicated admins need to remain the authority on tags and be the deciding vote in 100 out of 100 cases but talking can´t hurt.

The deletion of the tag in question wasn´t a mistake because it was "popular", but because it an easy to define theme that can apply to a broad spectrum of works (Dr. Love nailed it) and the theme can´t be stated with another tag. We obviously have equally definable sub-tags as LGBT Parent/s but these are information enrichment tags and NOT another version of spelling the overall theme, so use both at the same time. I gave the "departed" category to let´s say Berserk but i don´t think that the widely used tag is more important that an overlooked job tag or the 12 times used Breast Expansion. It may sound ridiculous but even i got to applies the magic tits and i have no idea how to spell out that one with a combination of others.
That´s why i defended Vore for example.

@holy`bell I would love to give you the "saving" link you asked me of but guess which tag the Waybackmachine didn´t save. The "new" tag got the exact name it had (and thus the URL) but http://web.archive.org/web/20151123004330/http://www.mangau pdates.com/series.html?id=88 proves me right. Just expand the list and click on the tag to get ...nothing. I have already started to re-tag a bit with my reading list and ones i remembered. Never a Dull Moment...

I agree with ImmLff that the old/current LGBT tag is very broad but easy to grasp tags are also the best. This restorative moment in time is perfect to split it up though, in all 4 of the letters for example, but the tag itself would need to be deleted again NOW with us starting over from scratch with the ones that survived as a re-posted list in this very tread or an utterly new one. The database has bigger problems though which will take years to fix without having full time employees for the categories, guess who saw through most of the tags library by now, but we apparently can´t save the tag, so do we split it before poor updaters start wasting their time. I say Yes but a few other LGBT tags would need a reassessment first.

Edit: I now found the "saving" link. Kind off:
http://web.archive.org/web/20151203101057/https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?category=LGBT+Character+in+a+Non-BL%2FGL+Manga& orderby=rating.
It obviously includes mistakes but we only lost 6 weeks and it included 500+ tags.
The problem is that only pages 1-4 and 21 work. Does a coding/deep web wizard know a workaround? I also haven't´t given up and am now trying URL variations. This is reminiscent of my Sierra/Lucas adventure past as i know nothing about programming. A few sites as Otakumole and certain readers also save our tags. I reset all from OM which applied to my knowledge.

Last edited by residentgrigo at 2:30 pm, Feb 25

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Post #676956
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7:23 pm, Feb 19 2016
Posts: 77


I dont know if its the reason but few days ago I reported throught change request that there were 2 tags
LGBT character in non-Yaoi/Yuri manga
LGBT character in non-Yaoi/Yuri LN
And suggested to use "title"/"publication"in tags instead of manga as now there is more different kind of positions, and it seems some people feel need to create additional tags, but now I also feel a bit confused....
I also reported some other cases through change request and they got changed the nex day or refused, , (like spelling mistakes, same meaning tag groping=chikan etc.). Once I made mistake and reported same meaning tags, but they were in fact different, but the change got accepted right away and later I spend whole sunday re adding the tag (makeover/s).....and now I feel a bit scared to report anything connected to tags that way.

If you try to find the answer why sometimes tags are disappearing my guess is that in some cases somone reports it throught change request.Everyone can make a change request like that, no need to even see the forum.

So I think like everyone says there is a need to make some known procedure to do it and involve in the discusion the people that respond to change requests too?

Anyway I think some users just add tags as they like - it seems that way especialy with p*rn tags. But if you check at the genres page Adult is the most popular genre with over 27 000 titles hentai with over 25 000 and next is romance 23 000 ....so no wonder there are specialised tags like "Female on futanari" "Male on futanari" etc showing up more and more.....

Last edited by rangda2 at 8:37 pm, Feb 19

Post #677067
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Member

7:59 am, Feb 23 2016
Posts: 4


I think these should be merge:
adoptive brothers - Adoptive Siblings
aliens - Alien/s
Baby Sister - Younger Sister
Character fall in love with their abuser - Stockholm Syndrome
Children - Child/ren
Crime - Crime/s
Disguise - Disguise/s
Dragons - Dragon/s
Elves - Elf/ves
Emperor - Emperor/s
Empire - Empire/s
Enemy Becomes Friend - Enemies Become Friends
Exorcist - Exorcist/s
Golem - Golem/s
Harass - Harassment
Healer - Healer/s
Magic Item - Magic Item/s
Mask - Mask/s
Mental Retardation - Mental Illness (Maybe it should be change to metal disability confused )
Mermen/s - Merman/men
Murder - Murder/s
Necromancer - Necromancer/s
Nerds - Nerd/s
Nightmares - Nightmare/s
Past Life - Past Lives
Protective Friend - Protective Friend/s
Stepsiblings - Stepsibling/s
Super Villians - Super Villain/s (The spelling should be fix too)
Warriors - Warrior/s
S (I think this should be removed, I don't even know what it means. confused )

Last edited by SleepyTigress at 8:13 am, Feb 23

Post #677130
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Member

2:20 pm, Feb 25 2016
Posts: 472


What just happened to the "collection of stories / oneshots" tag??
I swear it was there a few days ago. This is one of the tags I used the most to find manga.
The only tag of this kind left now is "collection of stories".
I might state that there is a difference between the two tags (rather used to be).
Some manga are wholly collection of oneshots while some are a collection of both short stories ranging from 2-3 chapters and associated or totally independent oneshots.
I was wondering what to do about those type of hybrid manga.
Srsly, I feel like we've lost a very important tag.

Post #677131 - Reply to (#677130) by zephyr4
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Seinen is RIGHT
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2:25 pm, Feb 25 2016
Posts: 2150


You found the correct tag with Collection of Stories (note the 3924 entries).
It just changed it´s name. Pointless but harmless. Shrug.

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Post #677137
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4:44 pm, Feb 25 2016
Posts: 472


@residentgrigo
"Pointless but harmles"-yep, I guess that's it.


Post #677142 - Reply to (#677067) by SleepyTigress
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10:06 pm, Feb 25 2016
Posts: 77


@SleepyTigress Try submitting it throught change request. Its much faster that way.

Discriminational versions of tag Intersex - seems like this tag gots lot of misunderstandings
----hermaphrodite
from wiki "In biology, a hermaphrodite is an organism that has reproductive organs normally associated with both male and female sexes...Historically, the term hermaphrodite has also been used to describe ambiguous genitalia and gonadal mosaicism in individuals of gonochoristic species, especially human beings. The word intersex has come into preferred usage for humans, since the word hermaphrodite is considered to be misleading and stigmatizing"
----Intersex
from wiki "Intersex people were previously referred to as hermaphrodites, but the term has fallen out of favor as it is considered to be misleading and stigmatizing."
---Futanari
from wiki "is the Japanese word for hermaphroditism, which is also used in a broader sense for androgyny. Beyond Japan the term is used to describe a commonly pornographic genre of eroge, comics and anime, which includes characters that show both primary sexual characteristics."


Last edited by rangda2 at 1:56 pm, Feb 27

Post #677285
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Me too ♥
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11:42 pm, Mar 1 2016
Posts: 1139


There's a tag Rape isn't Considered as a Bad Thing WHAT!?!?!?! I.. do I really need to say more to get it removed?

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Post #677297 - Reply to (#677285) by kitty1826x
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12:51 pm, Mar 2 2016
Posts: 77


@kitty1826x, personally I think its very usefull tag. It does not mean that anyone is agreeing that rape is not a bad thing, it just marks mangas that picture rape like that. Very usefull, especially if you want to avoid them.

Post #677298
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Seinen is RIGHT
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12:54 pm, Mar 2 2016
Posts: 2150


Mrs.Kitty has a point and Pervert Treated As Normal is equal trash.
Categories can´t be a blind value judgment alone and how is the community at large supposed to say / vote on (!) if a crime is morally right in the context or not. Or if it was represented "correctly". This is a database and not Jerry Springer!
Undefinable tags as Badass Female Lead / Badass Male Lead are thus equally nonsensical and that rape tag was once deleted if memory serves me right.
Edit: I looked @ the entries and they used to be different so it should die again soon.
(Hundreds of such manga and dedicated magazines do exist kitty...)

Last edited by residentgrigo at 5:06 pm, Mar 2

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Post #677302 - Reply to (#677297) by rangda2
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Me too ♥
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4:56 pm, Mar 2 2016
Posts: 1139


What? Avoiding the whole "rape is subjectively good or bad" (which it's not), IN what way is this a useful tag? You're telling me there's manga where rape isn't considered bad?
Now I've read A Lot of manga under the rape tag, even some with dubious consent, of course those that fell for their rapist but none of these ever depicted rape as "not a bad thing". Not one.
I've read one, and skimmed some of the others with this tag and the mangakas are not saying "rape isn't bad".

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I should proof read my comments more, but I won't...
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Post #677341 - Reply to (#677302) by kitty1826x
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Mad With a Hat
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11:22 pm, Mar 3 2016
Posts: 4764


In a lot of shoujo and yaoi - relationships start with rape... and it's kinda glossed over.
I think in those instances, it might apply. But it should probably have a better name.


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Post #677342 - Reply to (#677341) by NightSwan
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Seinen is RIGHT
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11:31 pm, Mar 3 2016
Posts: 2150


Like Rape as a Start of Relationship or the multiple dozen rape related descriptor tags?

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