banner_jpg
Username/Email: Password:
Forums

Homophobia and transphobia.

Pages (2) [ 1 2 ] Next
You must be registered to post!
From User
Message Body
Post #661190
user avatar
A silly pumpkin
Member

11:32 am, Feb 7 2015
Posts: 174


Hiya, I recently started reading manga, and something that had struck me in almost every manga I have read (aside from those directly looking at the LGBTIAQ community), is mild homophobia and transphobia.

I was wondering, how does the media in your area/country portray gay, lesbian, bisexual, intersex, transgender and otherwise queer people. Have you noticed when jokes are made at these identities expenses in manga, anime and dramas? And what does your community know about LGBTIAQ issues.

Also, this is a pretty sensitive topic for some people, please try to be empathetic if you do reply.

________________
We work in the dark, we do what we can, we give what we have, out doubt is our passion and our passion is our task, the rest is the madness of art. Henry james
Post #661202
user avatar
Mad With a Hat
Member

6:34 pm, Feb 7 2015
Posts: 4764


I live in Israel, and the media's approach to homosexuals and transsexuals is generally a positive one.
We had a transsexual singer represent the country in the Eurovision several times, and besides her, there're quite a few famous people who're out.
Israel is largely secular in nature, despite being founded on Jewish principles, so the big cities are very gay friendly. You can see rainbow flags hanging about and everything. : D

There's still prejudice and hate though, like I imagine in every country, coming from the older generations who're far more conservative, and from the more extreme religious crowd. There have also been hate crimes, unfortunately.

There used to be laws against homosexuality that were inherited from the British Empire, but those were never acted upon in civil courts and were later eliminated completely. Now there're laws against hate speech and discrimination.

There's still a long way to go, but for such a young country, especially one that was founded on religious principles, I think the progress has been very good.



________________
Hrodulf and Bjornolfr, you will not be forgotten.
User Posted Image
And if the world were black and white,
you would be my rainbow in shades of grey.


Click 'n Play!

If I had a fantasy self, it'd be a tentacle monster.
Post #661204
user avatar
Seinen is RIGHT
 Member

7:04 pm, Feb 7 2015
Posts: 2143


Here is the truthful wiki article on germany: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_Germany
Quote
Despite two of the three political parties in the German government being socially conservative on the issues of LGBT rights, Germany has frequently been seen as one of the most gay friendly countries in the world. Recent polls have indicated that a majority of Germans support same-sex marriage. Another poll in 2013 indicated that 87% of Germans viewed that homosexuality should be accepted by society, which was the second highest in the world following Spain. Berlin has been referred to by publications as one of the most gay friendly cities in the world. The mayor of Berlin, Klaus Wowereit, is one of the most famous openly gay men in Germany.


Discrimination of homosexuals can get you in very hot waters here and i had/have openly gay comrades/coworkers in at work,in school and it the army. Gay characters in children media are nothing special since the 90s in the latest because of this popular book series like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Chicks.
Quote
Asked why she made Wilma a lesbian, she answered: "I have friends who are lesbian, so this... is a normal part of life. It would have been boring... if Wilma had fallen in love with a boy, I already covered that with all the others.

No one messed with Sailor Moon in the 90s too.
I guess you can come here because japan it is not. They really need to get their shit together regarding LGBT rights even if they are not prosecuting it.
Read Honey & Honey to learn a bit more.

________________
I also read EU/US comics and am a librarian.
Manga-Masters, My ANN-Lists + Imdb
User Posted Image
Post #661526
user avatar
Member

4:28 pm, Feb 13 2015
Posts: 534


I live in Canada. I watch only left/centre media, in which portrayal of homosexuals is positive, but I would guess that right-wing media displays a more homophobic/defense of homophobia position on various issues like the Trinity Western law school, the Alberta gay-straight alliance fiasco, priests who refuse to marry gay couples, etc.. The majority of Canadians support gay marriage/gay rights though, so you won't find many public figures who would take a clear stance against it (and indeed our crazy far right-wing media station shut down today due to its lousy ratings and losing millions of dollars every year eyes ).

In terms of other television, I don't watch a huge amount, but something I've noticed in recent years is that it seems to have become more acceptable to show homosexual kissing/other displays of affection on mainstream shows. I don't know whether this trend is part of the overall cultural move away from modesty and applies also to heterosexual couples, or whether it's more closely tied to an increased acceptance of homosexuality in our/American society (as a large number of the television shows broadcasted here are American).

I have a gay friend. I have a friend who makes jokes about gay people and I always tell him 'shame on you' (in fact he may just be amused by my disapproval laugh ).

Honestly the only time that I've seen homophobia in manga is in yaoi, when it's used as easy fodder to create an impediment to the couple getting together. I don't think I've read any manga that covers LBGT issues seriously though. It's not a theme that particularly interests me, but I would definitely read Asano Inio's work if he did something on that topic, as I heard that he was going to.

Post #661590 - Reply to (#661190) by RattixEmpire
user avatar
Member

6:21 pm, Feb 14 2015
Posts: 525


Quote from RattixEmpire
Hiya, I recently started reading manga, and something that had struck me in almost every manga I have read (aside from those directly looking at the LGBTIAQ community), is mild homophobia and transphobia.


Read manga written for homosexuals.

Or - and this is the best advice you can get - grow some thicker skin.

Quote from RattixEmpire
I was wondering, how does the media in your area/country portray gay, lesbian, bisexual, intersex, transgender and otherwise queer people.


As a victim group.

Quote from RattixEmpire
Have you noticed when jokes are made at these identities expenses in manga, anime and dramas?


Yes. I had a good laugh.

Quote from RattixEmpire
And what does your community know about LGBTIAQ issues.


They'd probably think LGBTIAQ is some form of STD.

Quote from RattixEmpire
Also, this is a pretty sensitive topic for some people, please try to be empathetic if you do reply.


You're welcome.

________________
User Posted Image
Post #666720 - Reply to (#661590) by -shiratori-
user avatar
Member

11:01 pm, Jun 6 2015
Posts: 250


Quote from RattixEmpire
Hiya, I recently started reading manga, and something that had struck me in almost every manga I have read (aside from those directly looking at the LGBTIAQ community), is mild homophobia and transphobia.


Since 89% of the manga I read is BL (indeed I only use this account to keep track of that) my experience with manga has been significantly different. In this genre it's not uncommon for gay men to be the norm rather than the minority, and worst case scenario they will crudely disregard the female gender. However, there are also very good BL works out there that try to approach LGBT issues in a very sensitive and subtle way: this means these authors don't try to make the entire world gay and instead focus on the private relationship itself.

Usually - lately, from my experience - we come across characters that struggle with the fact that they are not following the "normal" path for men and they feel ashamed; other times the plot is about them rejecting their true sexual self at first, in order to come clean in the end. Homophobia is usually portrayed as a bad, damaging thing, usually in the form of bullying.

Mind too that, contrary to what -shiratori- said, manga like these are not written primarily for homosexual people. They are usually written by (straight) women for (straight) women. However, again, this doesn't mean they can't approach serious issues in a serious manner.

Udagawachou de Mattete yo. by Hideyoshico is a good example of what I'm trying to explain, I think. Also Hatsukoi no Atosaki by Hidaka Shoko.

Quote from RattixEmpire
I was wondering, how does the media in your area/country portray gay, lesbian, bisexual, intersex, transgender and otherwise queer people.


Portuguese media is definitely getting there. It's common now to find gay/lesbian/bisexual and other queer characters in our media, and even in juvenile series. Their relevance goes from full-blown characters to minor appearances. In my opinion, Portuguese media (mainly television) has bigger issues at this point, namely the fact that you can go through 500 episodes in any popular series without seeing a black person, or that abortion is (very!) frown upon in fiction, even though it's legal in Portugal to have an abortion. In comparison to those social issues, gays, lesbians and such are doing just fine.

Quote from RattixEmpire
Have you noticed when jokes are made at these identities expenses in manga, anime and dramas?


I've seen that happen in BL exclusively (never in shonen or josei, which I also enjoy). I put up with it if it's sort of funny like from one gay character to the other (as if they were picking on each other in a warm, lovey-dovey way). I hate it when authors make a joke out of social roles and make it so that one of the men is feminine and cute and warm "like a woman" and the other is cold and hardworking "like a man", and then they spend the entire time making pseudo comedy out of this s-hit.

Quote from RattixEmpire
And what does your community know about LGBTIAQ issues.


I don't understand what you mean, my community. You mean my friends and close family? My neighbours? I wouldn't know about that. They probably know enough to discuss those issues, but they wouldn't care enough to do so.

And that's that.

________________
It's the Art of Time, it's the Art of Life--
Of the player and the craftsman,
Of the writer of songs, of the creator of love,
Of those who will follow, of those who led,
There's no other way in the world ahead ♥
Post #666727 - Reply to (#666720) by MirayAllen
user avatar
Mr. Brightside
Member

1:55 am, Jun 7 2015
Posts: 116


Quote from -shiratori-
Read manga written for homosexuals.

Or - and this is the best advice you can get - grow some thicker skin.



lol... someone brings up a question about how the media portrays LGBTE groups in different questions and instead of say, responding to the question you freak out and post a complete not sequiter saying "get some thicker skin!!1!" I think you might be projecting a little bit, because your skin seems paper thin.

I live in the USA. Very big and diverse country so it depends where you live. Gay Marriage is currently legal in 37 states, but in some of them such as Alabama, Oklahoma, and Utah it is only local via court decision and local groups and legislators are fighting it in court (it is almost definite that none of these cases will succeed, but it is worth noting these states certainly do not have a majority in favor of gay marriage.

Nationally, there has been a majority in favor for several years The last two major nationwide polls on gay marriage (from the Wall Street Jounal and CNN/ORC respectively) have had 59% and 63% in favor respectively. A collection of statewide polls shows 36 states currently have more people in favor of gay marriage than against it. 32 have a majority in favor (these do not correspond exactly with states where gay marriage is legal, however, because gay marriage has been settled in the courts in most places instead of in the state capitol or at the ballot box.)

I would say the portrayal of gay people in the media is fairly positive. There have been several popular shows with major gay characters in them (although not always progressively -- some television drams treat homosexuality as "scandalous" and "sexy" while homosexuality is not given a very serious or realistic portrayal.) Most major news media outlets like CNN and ABC are aggressively neutral and insist on representing "both sides" whenever Some news channels like MSNBC (generally positive) or Fox (general negative) have "commentary news" shows These are typically programs aired in the afternoon where the host takes positions are provide their own opinions on topical issues.

Of course there are branches of news channels in all different areas where you will get a variety of coverage. In general however I would say the USA is relatively gay friendly although it very much depends on where you live.

There are also various national laws designed to protect gay people -- it is illegal to discriminate against gays and lesbians in hiring for example.

On the issue of transgender people however I would say on trans issues the USA is MUCH more bigoted. Transexuality is frequently

In the aforementioned CNN/ORC poll (where 59% said they support gay marriage) 59% also said that transgender people should be forced to use the bathroom relation to the gender they were born into (in the USA bathrooms are divided by gender, so almost everywhere there is both a "female" and "male" bathroom) and only 26% said they should be allowed to use the bathroom of their new sex (although it may seem silly this issue is a major focus point of anti-transgender groups, who generally try to portray transgendered people as either pedophiles or other perverts and often use transgendered people going into the correct bathroom as some sort of nefarious plot to do perverted things. Because this is probably far and away the most prominent national debate about transgendered people right now, I would say it a good barometer for public support.

There is also a lot of discrimination against transgendered people in general in American culture no matter where you live. Even in generally "progressive" areas transgendered people are often harassed or discriminated against in various ways and get called "traps" and other much nastier stuff. Discrimination ranges from jokes or public humiliation at the expense of transgendered people to discrimination in hiring or refusal of services. Transgendered people are also in general not taken very seriously by a lot of people, and its a widespread belief in some areas that transgenderism is "made up" (although this is less common.) Transgendered people are essentially ignored entirely in both the news and tv dramas so there's not much to say on that front. Its worth noting because they're so ignored there are some people who have simply never heard of transgenderism.

(P.S. Sorry for the wall-o-text but I wanted to answer comprehensively. biggrin )

Quote from MirayAllen
Usually - lately, from my experience - we come across characters that struggle with the fact that they are not following the "normal" path for men and they feel ashamed; other times the plot is about them rejecting their true sexual self at first, in order to come clean in the end. Homophobia is usually portrayed as a bad, damaging thing, usually in the form of bullying.



Actually I think this is a good thing, although it obviously depends on the specific portrayal. Since, as you said, these manga are generally aimed at straight people its useful to raise awareness of things likes bullying and the way some people are shamed into thinking a certain thing is "normal."

So I think it helps increase awareness amongst the straight people who read these manga that these are real things, and what a horrible effect they have on some people's lives.

Last edited by blakraven66 at 6:06 am, Jun 7

________________
"We can not resort to simplistic or extreme solutions which substitute myths for common sense."
― Jimmy Carter
Post #690738
Member

8:39 pm, Apr 25 2017
Posts: 14


Quote
Hiya, I recently started reading manga, and something that had struck me in almost every manga I have read (aside from those directly looking at the LGBTIAQ community), is mild homophobia and transphobia.


Because japan doesn't promote victim complex. They can make fun of lgbt, straight, black, brown, yellow without a raging feminist coming to slap them about. At the same time they can write fantastic yaoi/yuri/incest/ whatever without religious zealots bitching at them. Japan keep being japan! Also don't impose your cultural values on other people, it's racist.




Post #690881
Member

7:11 pm, Apr 30 2017
Posts: 1041


u had to dig deep to find this one lol

Post #690965
user avatar
The Yullenator
Member

10:30 am, May 3 2017
Posts: 121


Ignore sh*tori, they're a trash troll.

As for mild homophobia and transphobia, that'll happen even in if not sometimes especially in gay romance/ero genres.

The reason for this is the lack of understanding of LGBTQ+ concepts, issues, ect..

Microagressive jokes at the expense of LGBTQ+ will happen everywhere, from laughing at crossdressers for crossdressing, to making heteronormative comments about male/male relationships, to making gay jokes in a manner as if being gay is only just a joke...
I'm in Canada in a very liberal part of the world. You STILL have people here using gay slurs on the goddamn train.
When it happens in manga, yes, I notice it pretty much every single time. It happens in TV shows, in movies here, in every sort of media. It's unavoidable.

Don't believe anyone who tells you you should get over it if you're actually being reasonable about it. You shouldn't have to. People who are offended by such things have every right to do so.

Whatever they do, they're fighting a battle they're going to lose in time. There are so many socially unacceptable behaviours 5 years ago that people let happen that are increasingly not acceptable now. Fight for something enough, and it can spur change. Transphobic jokes that were acceptable then, many of the harsher kinds are no longer accepted. Now movies/TV shows that use unacceptable humour will get bad reviews and increasingly lower success rates. They still whitewash shows/movies, but if we keep having those movies tank in the box office, eventually they'll start knocking it off.

For instance, take Friends. In its time, it had a lot of woman/woman fetishistic jokes, gay jokes, transphobic jokes, misogynistic jokes. If that were written today, many of the lines would be different. It still wouldn't be perfect, but it'd have been improved. Otherwise people on twitter/other social media would've been loudly complaining about it. I still love the show and my fav is still Ross, but boy. Back then I didn't realize how much of a f***boy he could be sometimes lol.

Last edited by Baniita at 10:35 am, May 3

________________
User Posted Image User Posted ImageUser Posted Image
Post #690983
user avatar
RIP
Member

8:23 pm, May 3 2017
Posts: 4917


I've never met a homosexual that couldn't take a joke, the same as how I've never met a straight person that couldn't handle being made fun of for being straight. The current internet culture, though, is one of outrage, where people want to be offended. Be it offended at something about themselves, or offended for someone else. What they don't even realize, by doing that, is that they are promoting the idea that the person in question needs to be defended, or can't handle simple things. It's sad, really, but that's what you get when you raise a generation to believe everyone is equally correct. Especially when echo chambers on all sides are so easy to form on the internet.

Post #691035 - Reply to (#690983) by Identity Crisis
user avatar
Member

2:31 am, May 5 2017
Posts: 534


Quote from Identity Crisis
I've never met a homosexual that couldn't take a joke, the same as how I've never met a straight person that couldn't handle being made fun of for being straight. The current internet culture, though, is one of outrage, where people want to be offended. Be it offended at something about themselves, ...


Just because someone doesn't act offended IRL doesn't mean that's necessarily how they feel... there are many contexts in which shrugging something off may seem like the better option. If you're at work and your boss makes a sexist remark for instance, you're probably going to minimize it due to the effects a reaction could have on your job and career. You may want to avoid conflict with friends, relatives, whoever. The Internet gives people the chance to actually express how they feel, on both sides, without repercussions. It's all coming from somewhere.

I think there are many situations in which a person may want to be/feel defended as you say and this doesn't indicate weakness, just powerlessness. There are situations in my life when I've wished I had someone to intervene for me, and I'm definitely not ashamed of that.

Post #691057 - Reply to (#691035) by hkanz
user avatar
RIP
Member

6:27 pm, May 5 2017
Posts: 4917


Quote from hkanz
Just because someone doesn't act offended IRL doesn't mean that's necessarily how they feel... there are many contexts in which shrugging something off may seem like the better option. If you're at work and your boss makes a sexist remark for instance, you're probably going to minimize it due to t ...


I don't actually disagree with you or anything. There are plenty of times in life when someone needs help, and there isn't anything wrong with it. I'm still very grateful to the people that helped me when I really needed it, you know? The problem comes into play when people start to believe every little thing is an attack that needs to be defended against or that being overly sensitive to things is a good trait to have. Apologies, my comment wasn't an attack on people needing to be defended in general, rather the people that look for even the slightest thing to villainize or rally against to help themselves feel better or superior. That's all.

Post #691062
user avatar
Member

7:27 pm, May 5 2017
Posts: 232


This, from above, sums it up nicely:


Quote
Because japan doesn't promote victim complex. They can make fun of lgbt, straight, black, brown, yellow without a raging feminist coming to slap them about. At the same time they can write fantastic yaoi/yuri/incest/ whatever without religious zealots bitching at them. Japan keep being japan!


It is largely because of the above, and other good points, that so many of us love/translate/read manga. If you're going to habitually read media coming from Japan, the country that produces so much great stuff because its content is not presided over, as ours is, by thousands of volunteer censor social justice warriors, then you will do yourself a favor by resolving not to fret about stuff in it you don't like.

Post #691189
Member

2:32 pm, May 8 2017
Posts: 1041


lol
what makes you think japan is free from
angry feminists
or religious ppl having opinions
or critizism directed at the porn industry and or hentai?



Pages (2) [ 1 2 ] Next
You must be registered to post!