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Post #502003 - Reply to (#501722) by AnjuxKuran
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2:14 pm, Oct 18 2011
Posts: 390


Quote from AnjuxKuran
So my religion teacher made us watch a movie on 'honor killing'. Pretty much woman in the middle east are killed because they refuse to marry the one the parents have chosen for them, so they kill them. Also if a woman is raped, they kill her since its apparently her fault.

Anyways today she mentions abit about woman in china, and how your only aloud to have one child. If a woman gets pregnant again she has to get a abortion. Some woman keep the baby in secret and then give it to the orphanage, that in her preservative she says is like a concentration camp.

I'm wondering a few things
1. If any woman on baka updates or men from china, can tell me a bit more about this, or their own experience.
2. I'm a woman, and i feel like the world is a terrible place.. someone lighten my mood?


In my country what your teacher said is a crime.


Post #502004 - Reply to (#502003) by Klapzi
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2:16 pm, Oct 18 2011
Posts: 389


Quote from Klapzi
Quote from AnjuxKuran
So my religion teacher made us watch a movie on 'honor killing'. Pretty much woman in the middle east are killed because they refuse to marry the one the parents have chosen for them, so they kill them. Also if a woman is raped, they kill her since its apparently her fault.

Anyways today she mentions abit about woman in china, and how your only aloud to have one child. If a woman gets pregnant again she has to get a abortion. Some woman keep the baby in secret and then give it to the orphanage, that in her preservative she says is like a concentration camp.

I'm wondering a few things
1. If any woman on baka updates or men from china, can tell me a bit more about this, or their own experience.
2. I'm a woman, and i feel like the world is a terrible place.. someone lighten my mood?


In my country what your teacher said is a crime.




is that a good or bad thing O.o


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Post #502025 - Reply to (#502004) by AnjuxKuran
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Local Prig
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4:46 pm, Oct 18 2011
Posts: 1899


Quote from AnjuxKuran
Quote from Klapzi
Quote from AnjuxKuran
So my religion teacher made us watch a movie on 'honor killing'. Pretty much woman in the middle east are killed because they refuse to marry the one the parents have chosen for them, so they kill them. Also if a woman is raped, they kill her since its apparently her fault.

Anyways today she mentions abit about woman in china, and how your only aloud to have one child. If a woman gets pregnant again she has to get a abortion. Some woman keep the baby in secret and then give it to the orphanage, that in her preservative she says is like a concentration camp.

I'm wondering a few things
1. If any woman on baka updates or men from china, can tell me a bit more about this, or their own experience.
2. I'm a woman, and i feel like the world is a terrible place.. someone lighten my mood?


In my country what your teacher said is a crime.




is that a good or bad thing O.o


Does it matter? We're talking about sensationalized information anyway. You get a similar image looking through the world with Fox-colored lenses.

I'd recommend avoiding the "I won't google something because the information could be provided by some random rich interest group" line of logic if your solution is "ask anonymous and unverifiable people on a random forum" their opinion instead. That strikes me as a rather odd decision overall. Getting the bare bones of the situation first is at least helpful, even if there's less "humanity" or whatever involved. I mean, you don't expect the world expert on, I don't know, 1300s China to have lived in China during the 1300s. That doesn't mean the information is less accurate, though, it just means it's not channeled through one of the more obscure methods of anthropological research.

On topic and not about Rodney Bewes: the world has changed a lot in the last half century. If you want to be happy, be optimistic about what has already been accomplished and what that means for the future, not pessimistic about the things that are still a problem or seem to fail to coalesce to your personal beliefs.

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6:02 pm, Oct 18 2011
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Your teacher is giving you biased information. My advice is to not believe everything you see or hear on the news/documentaries at face value. The media then to show negative sides on other country/cultures especially in country people considered "third world" or "developing".





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6:50 pm, Oct 18 2011
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My Global Studies teacher from high school said the parents would have to pay a high tax if they had another kid. Additionally, my entire family is Chinese. According to my mother, who grew up in China, you have to pay $100k-200k for an extra kid, so only rich people can afford it. Well, unless you live in a rural area and illegally "hide" your child- they would have no identity in that case, however. People have lost their homes and businesses because they were forced to pay the tax. This policy is more kinder than it was two decades ago, when my mother was in college. Her sister had two mandatory abortions, and apparently the company you worked at would escort you to the hospital, plus a government official from the department related to birth control. Also, according to my mother, birth control methods are extremely widespread. Personally I think that China's abortion policy isn't entirely without some rationale. They have the most populous country in the world. Imagine if the US population were quadrupled. In fact, workers retire at age 40. My other aunt, who was director of a library, was forced into early retirement. There are so many college graduates entering the workforce over there.

Last edited by Peppermint at 6:55 pm, Oct 18 2011

Post #502217
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2:48 pm, Oct 19 2011
Posts: 390


Quote from AnjuxKuran
Quote from Klapzi
Quote from AnjuxKuran
So my religion teacher made us watch a movie on 'honor killing'. Pretty much woman in the middle east are killed because they refuse to marry the one the parents have chosen for them, so they kill them. Also if a woman is raped, they kill her since its apparently her fault.

Anyways today she mentions abit about woman in china, and how your only aloud to have one child. If a woman gets pregnant again she has to get a abortion. Some woman keep the baby in secret and then give it to the orphanage, that in her preservative she says is like a concentration camp.

I'm wondering a few things
1. If any woman on baka updates or men from china, can tell me a bit more about this, or their own experience.
2. I'm a woman, and i feel like the world is a terrible place.. someone lighten my mood?


In my country what your teacher said is a crime.




is that a good or bad thing O.o


Is saying every german is a nazi a good thing?
Is saying every black guy is a robber a good thing?

Saying in XXXXX country women get beaten for being raped when it isn't true is pretty much the same.
You get an exception and turn it into a rule, just for the sake of........I don't know, I can't understand people who do this.

There are laws about this here because in brazil we have MANY ethnicities, so when you talk about women getting killed in asia, you are not only talking about something far away, you are talking about people you see everyday. This kind of sensationalism generates ideias like "Arab fucker, you don't kill your women only because brazilian laws won't allow it"
Things like that cause a lot of trouble, germans get killed/beaten for being nazists, black guys get killed/beaten for being robbers and western asians get killed/beaten for being women killers.

And even in countries without these problems, this kind of thought is used a lot to explain wars and other morally unexplainable things.


Post #502327 - Reply to (#502002) by AnjuxKuran
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Ancient Alien
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1:24 am, Oct 20 2011
Posts: 312


Quote from AnjuxKuran
Quote from DorkFishOK
Quote from Scyfon
Quote from AnjuxKuran
Quote from red255
yeah if you aren't wearing a burka, you can get raped, but it IS your fault because thats the societal penalty for walking around without wearing a burka. Why, then if you wanted to not get raped would you go around without a Burka on and blame someone else?


rape is NEVER a womans fault, no mater if she wears clothing or not, it is not a womans fault. ever.

As much as I disagree with how red255 chose his words, there is some kind of logic there.
If woman dresses like she wants to get raped then...you know?
Not that I condone with the cultural practice you mentioned.
I don't even understand why a religion teacher would be showing you that :S


I kind of disagree... quite a bit actually. If a woman wants to wear what she wants, it doesn't mean she's looking for sexual attention. Sometimes I wear skimpy things because I feel that clothes* can be really stifling. No woman dresses to get raped-maybe to have fun, but not to be forced into a situation that arose because somebody could not control their sexual impulse.

*at least modest clothes


okay this is getting off topic, but even if a girl wears her bra and underwear outside it still does not give ANYONE the right to rape her.

people are starting to scare me with the 'rape' is a woman's fault thinking....

anyways i didn't make this thread to discuss honor killings.
i didn't mean to offend people in china, the reason i didn't google this information was because the info could be from some rich person who doesn't really know or feel what its like to be in this situation for woman/ or men in china.

That is why i wanted to ask in a forum, i didn't mean to make this religious or about feminism.
I find peoples options more interesting.

but this blew way up... and for some reason people are always trying to find a way to make anything i say or write turn bad.

i'm feeling worst than ever >.>


I'm sorry you're feeling worse but, my dear, it's not the world's job to make you happy. The opinions you asked for are making you feel worse, and your unhappiness and pessimism are bringing the world down around you. Sure, you can lament whatever horrible thing in the world, but it only makes you blind or unappreciative to what is good and improving. If you want to be cheered up, then cheer yourself up. Understand that there is suffering in the world, but realize that your own contributes to it. There is suffering in the world, but there are also people working to improve it. If you are able to make yourself happy, then the strength you used for yourself can be applied to their efforts as well.

Quote
Quote from AnjuxKuran
Quote from Klapzi
Quote from AnjuxKuran
So my religion teacher made us watch a movie on 'honor killing'. Pretty much woman in the middle east are killed because they refuse to marry the one the parents have chosen for them, so they kill them. Also if a woman is raped, they kill her since its apparently her fault.

Anyways today she mentions abit about woman in china, and how your only aloud to have one child. If a woman gets pregnant again she has to get a abortion. Some woman keep the baby in secret and then give it to the orphanage, that in her preservative she says is like a concentration camp.

I'm wondering a few things
1. If any woman on baka updates or men from china, can tell me a bit more about this, or their own experience.
2. I'm a woman, and i feel like the world is a terrible place.. someone lighten my mood?


In my country what your teacher said is a crime.




is that a good or bad thing O.o


Does it matter? We're talking about sensationalized information anyway. You get a similar image looking through the world with Fox-colored lenses.

I'd recommend avoiding the "I won't google something because the information could be provided by some random rich interest group" line of logic if your solution is "ask anonymous and unverifiable people on a random forum" their opinion instead. That strikes me as a rather odd decision overall. Getting the bare bones of the situation first is at least helpful, even if there's less "humanity" or whatever involved. I mean, you don't expect the world expert on, I don't know, 1300s China to have lived in China during the 1300s. That doesn't mean the information is less accurate, though, it just means it's not channeled through one of the more obscure methods of anthropological research.

On topic and not about Rodney Bewes: the world has changed a lot in the last half century. If you want to be happy, be optimistic about what has already been accomplished and what that means for the future, not pessimistic about the things that are still a problem or seem to fail to coalesce to your personal beliefs.


Yes! I wish you could just be my personal adviser, because your word choice makes me drool.

AnjuxKuran! you seem like a littl'un, don't be so distressed if you don't want to be! For as many people there are working against happiness there are just as many working to preserve it! Yes, the world may seem dull and set for ruin inside the walls of a classroom ever more darkened by the light of a teacher's movie projector, but instead of informing her students of what is happening in the world and what has improved and is continually improving, she left the light off. But, you can still turn it back on, or make the effort to turn it back on. smile Better than sitting in the dark, only mulling over what you cannot see.

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2:46 am, Oct 21 2011
Posts: 1444


i think that thing about Arab countries is that its TRADITION and you should not mess so much with tradition,sure, you may bend it ever so slightly but you dont change it all of a sudden because it's like slapping people in the face in the face or ass <wherever you prefer> and telling them that what theyre doing all their lives is wrong, to your perspective at least. this my friends may bring on a debate about social norms and what is "RIGHT"? what is "WRONG"? what is "JUSTICE"? so im going to stop now. and yeah. women complain a lot, because they can see that some situations are just unfair. okay im really gonna stop now, i just painted my nails and its gonna get chipped from typing laugh

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Post #502968
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Angel of Sin
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2:16 am, Oct 23 2011
Posts: 314


I think... people are shit. In general. Not everyone, of course... but there are so many shit humans out there that I don't even get angry anymore. So... I can't really make you feel better.

[this little opinion of mine is based on the discussion of honor killings, not China]
Some people's comments here are so ridiculous I can't even fathom where they developed such opinions. Clearly some of you don't even want to SEE, let alone try to understand, another person's suffering. I'm not saying I've ever had to go through any of the terrible experiences mentioned here. Not even close. But really, all this crap about tradition and society's norms means nothing if someone is being killed, raped, or undergoing any kind of miserable lifestyle because of another person's/group's views of what SHOULD happen to them simply based on status or sex.

I'm actually quite revolted right now. It's disgusting to see some of you justifying rape and murder with... religion and societal structures. You really have no idea at all what it's like for the woman (and sometimes men) who have to suffer for these wonderful traditions you speak of. And don't start spouting that they'd choose that lifestyle despite it all, because I'm certain the 99th percentile would prefer not to be beaten, raped, killed, forced into marriage, or whatever else you want to throw in there.

Don't bother replying to this with anything completely nonsensical like, "You're a hypocrite because you think your opinion is so great." No I don't. I don't think I'm worth much either.
Don't start with the "'you don't know what it's like for them" rant either. I never said I did. But I do know that the things I mentioned above aren't pleasant or desired.

All in all, I'm simply pointing out that the fact that these things happen is sick; people are sick; and I'm sick of it.

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Post #502978 - Reply to (#502002) by AnjuxKuran
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Mome Basher
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4:58 am, Oct 23 2011
Posts: 3380


Quote from AnjuxKuran
okay this is getting off topic, but even if a girl wears her bra and underwear outside it still does not give ANYONE the right to rape her.

people are starting to scare me with the 'rape' is a woman's fault thinking....


To clarify, I never meant it in that way.
I simply meant that a female who dresses modestly has considerably much less of a chance of getting raped, which is partly what the practice of Hijab, which includes the Burqa, is for - to lower the chances of such incidents from happening.
In no way does anyone have any right whatsoever to sexually assault someone. However, there are truly sick people in this world and it is one's own responsibility to prepare themselves for it.

Quote from DorkFishOK
No woman dresses to get raped-maybe to have fun, but not to be forced into a situation that arose because somebody could not control their sexual impulse.

Not unless they have a strong rape fetish of course roll eyes
But seriously, on particular cases, you have to consider whether the rape would have happen had it not been if the victim were not to be enticing to the rapist ie. If the victim had dressed more moderately, would it still have caused the rapist to lose control?
Not that I'm defending rapists or anything, just sayin' that it's not always a black and white situation.

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Post #502987 - Reply to (#502968) by Zandra
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his and her sonnet
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5:27 am, Oct 23 2011
Posts: 1127


Quote from Zandra
[this little opinion of mine is based on the discussion of honor killings, not China]
Some people's comments here are so ridiculous I can't even fathom where they developed such opinions. Clearly some of you don't even want to SEE, let alone try to understand, another person's suffering. I'm not saying I've ever had to go through any of the terrible experiences mentioned here. Not even close. But really, all this crap about tradition and society's norms means nothing if someone is being killed, raped, or undergoing any kind of miserable lifestyle because of another person's/group's views of what SHOULD happen to them simply based on status or sex.

I'm actually quite revolted right now. It's disgusting to see some of you justifying rape and murder with... religion and societal structures. You really have no idea at all what it's like for the woman (and sometimes men) who have to suffer for these wonderful traditions you speak of. And don't start spouting that they'd choose that lifestyle despite it all, because I'm certain the 99th percentile would prefer not to be beaten, raped, killed, forced into marriage, or whatever else you want to throw in there.


everyone should read @zandra's post
rape,honour killings and all other crimes
CANNOT be justified by religion,tradition or society
there is NO religion where honour killing is allowed
it is a matter of pride. a situation where the father/brother/uncle/whatever views his daughter/sister/niece as a someone that is not worthy of living because she "lost her dignity"
which is why its called honour killing...the family believes they will preserve their honour if the girl is killed
which is not true, because people will continue to remember and talk about it

categorising people into groups and saying that honour killing is only related to arab countries is WRONG
relating honour killing to a specific religion(like islam) is wrong too
i repeat, NO religion allows honour killing...killing itself is forbidden too(unless it was accidental)
honour killing happens ALL over the world...and it is a matter of PRIDE not religion

Post #502991 - Reply to (#502978) by Scyfon
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5:50 am, Oct 23 2011
Posts: 298


Quote from AnjuxKuran
Quote from DorkFishOK
No woman dresses to get raped-maybe to have fun, but not to be forced into a situation that arose because somebody could not control their sexual impulse.

Not unless they have a strong rape fetish of course roll eyes


Euh... a rape victim with a rape fetish is not a rape victim at all. Wouldn't you actually want to be 'raped' if you had such a fetish. Or did you mean a rapist with a rape fetish?

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Post #503033 - Reply to (#502978) by Scyfon
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Mmm...Tasty
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10:47 am, Oct 23 2011
Posts: 497


Quote from Scyfon
I simply meant that a female who dresses modestly has considerably much less of a chance of getting raped, which is partly what the practice of Hijab, which includes the Burqa, is for - to lower the chances of such incidents from happening.

In no way does anyone have any right whatsoever to sexually assault someone. However, there are truly sick people in this world and it is one's own responsibility to prepare themselves for it.


Define "modestly".
I don't think a woman walking around in jeans and a T-shirt with her hair untied is dressing provocatively. If that is enough to make a "man" "lose control", his mind is weak and sorely lacking discipline. It's not the women who should dress "modestly", it's the men who should learn to keep it in their pants.

Yes, those ignorant children are just asking for some pedophile to take advantage of them by frolicking around on the playground none

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Post #503035 - Reply to (#503033) by WandereroftheDeep
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10:58 am, Oct 23 2011
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Quote from WandereroftheDeep
Quote from Scyfon
I simply meant that a female who dresses modestly has considerably much less of a chance of getting raped, which is partly what the practice of Hijab, which includes the Burqa, is for - to lower the chances of such incidents from happening.

In no way does anyone have any right whatsoever to sexually assault someone. However, there are truly sick people in this world and it is one's own responsibility to prepare themselves for it.


Define "modestly".
I don't think a woman walking around in jeans and a T-shirt with her hair untied is dressing provocatively. If that is enough to make a "man" "lose control", his mind is weak and sorely lacking discipline. It's not the women who should dress "modestly", it's the men who should learn to keep it in their pants.

Yes, those ignorant children are just asking for some pedophile to take advantage of them by frolicking around on the playground none


See that depends on the culture though. If every woman except one is wearing all these layers of covering, the one dressed in jeans and a T-shirt is dressed provocatively, if only by comparison.

Saying someone "shouldn't" have to dress a certain way means little; anyone "should" be able to walk stark-naked down a dark street in the in the shadiest area of town in the middle of the night and not have to worry about being raped; but that doesn't change the fact that in reality, doing so is not a good idea.

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Post #503037 - Reply to (#503035) by mattai
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11:05 am, Oct 23 2011
Posts: 298


Quote from mattai
Quote from WandereroftheDeep
Quote from Scyfon
I simply meant that a female who dresses modestly has considerably much less of a chance of getting raped, which is partly what the practice of Hijab, which includes the Burqa, is for - to lower the chances of such incidents from happening.

In no way does anyone have any right whatsoever to sexually assault someone. However, there are truly sick people in this world and it is one's own responsibility to prepare themselves for it.


Define "modestly".
I don't think a woman walking around in jeans and a T-shirt with her hair untied is dressing provocatively. If that is enough to make a "man" "lose control", his mind is weak and sorely lacking discipline. It's not the women who should dress "modestly", it's the men who should learn to keep it in their pants.

Yes, those ignorant children are just asking for some pedophile to take advantage of them by frolicking around on the playground none


See that depends on the culture though. If every woman except one is wearing all these layers of covering, the one dressed in jeans and a T-shirt is dressed provocatively, if only by comparison.

Saying someone "shouldn't" have to dress a certain way means little; anyone "should" be able to walk stark-naked down a dark street in the in the shadiest area of town in the middle of the night and not have to worry about being raped; but that doesn't change the fact that in reality, doing so is not a good idea.


Euhm, depends on culture?
And who is the judge of what is, and what is not, 'correct' in a culture of which said person may or not affiliate with?
I mean should you judge the dress sense of someone who is walking around in a <insert import culture here> suburb according to: the general culture of the country you live in, the culture that's most prominent in that suburb, the culture said person affiliates with, or your own culture (which may or may not match any of the above)?
And, wouldn't that be discrimination?

Of course, there is always common sense, if you were to enter a den of lions you shouldn't be surprised if you were to get bitten...

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