Quote from AnjuxKuran

Quote from DorkFishOK

Quote from Scyfon

[quote=AnjuxKuran][quote=red255]yeah if you aren't wearing a burka, you can get raped, but it IS your fault because thats the societal penalty for walking around without wearing a burka. Why, then if you wanted to not get raped would you go around without a Burka on and blame someone else?

rape is NEVER a womans fault, no mater if she wears clothing or not, it is not a womans fault. ever.

As much as I disagree with how red255 chose his words, there is some kind of logic there.
If woman dresses like she wants to get raped then...you know?
Not that I condone with the cultural practice you mentioned.
I don't even understand why a religion teacher would be showing you that :S

I kind of disagree... quite a bit actually. If a woman wants to wear what she wants, it doesn't mean she's looking for sexual attention. Sometimes I wear skimpy things because I feel that clothes* can be really stifling. No woman dresses to get raped-maybe to have fun, but not to be forced into a situation that arose because somebody could not control their sexual impulse.

*at least modest clothes[/quote]

okay this is getting off topic, but even if a girl wears her bra and underwear outside it still does not give ANYONE the right to rape her.

people are starting to scare me with the 'rape' is a woman's fault thinking....
[/quote]

STOP using Oprah logic bull shit. and trying to paint people who don't watch Oprah as monsters.

I mean gods sakes its Oprah. She's just a black lady who had a show and a weight problem. and an understandably wierd view on sex due to well, everyone's view on sex is wierd.

But your whole 'never a woman's fault thing' is rather disturbing to me. It speaks of bad upbringing.

When there are two parties involved and you automatically assume the other party is 100% at fault you are admitting a predjudice. One that needs to be removed.

Who is defining rape here.

Girl is with a guy in little or no clothing, they have sex. girl claims it was rape.

You can believe her, but I'm going to have trouble doing that, as I'm not an imbecile. I don't Watch Oprah, and women, well they lie. alot. and then they pretend that their lies are no big deal, because if they do they sometimes get away with it.

So aside from a strip joint, why is a girl showing a guy her naked body if she doesn't want to have sex, and why is she claiming rape afterwards if she isn't simply attempting to abuse the system for personal gain or vengence?

Lets try this. Two people, everyone admits the girl got naked and with the guy of her own free will.

afterwards the guy claimed he thought he had consent and the girl claimed she was raped.

Nobody disputes the fact she was there happily with her clothes off.

Are you really going to side with the girl? Assuming the girls motives were framing the male for vengence, or other power reasons there may even be signs of rough sex, either preformed at the scene or after.

will you at LEAST admit she doesn't have a 100% no doubt case in the matter?

Quote from red255

STOP using Oprah logic bull shit. and trying to paint people who don't watch Oprah as monsters.

I mean gods sakes its Oprah. She's just a black lady who had a show and a weight problem. and an understandably wierd view on sex due to well, everyone's view on sex is wierd.

But your whole 'never a woman's fault thing' is rather disturbing to me. It speaks of bad upbringing.

When there are two parties involved and you automatically assume the other party is 100% at fault you are admitting a predjudice. One that needs to be removed.

Who is defining rape here.

Girl is with a guy in little or no clothing, they have sex. girl claims it was rape.

You can believe her, but I'm going to have trouble doing that, as I'm not an imbecile. I don't Watch Oprah, and women, well they lie. alot. and then they pretend that their lies are no big deal, because if they do they sometimes get away with it.

So aside from a strip joint, why is a girl showing a guy her naked body if she doesn't want to have sex, and why is she claiming rape afterwards if she isn't simply attempting to abuse the system for personal gain or vengence?

Lets try this. Two people, everyone admits the girl got naked and with the guy of her own free will.

afterwards the guy claimed he thought he had consent and the girl claimed she was raped.

Nobody disputes the fact she was there happily with her clothes off.

Are you really going to side with the girl? Assuming the girls motives were framing the male for vengence, or other power reasons there may even be signs of rough sex, either preformed at the scene or after.

will you at LEAST admit she doesn't have a 100% no doubt case in the matter?

You, my friend, seem to have a lot of pent up anger. I even get the distinct feeling you have a personal stake in that argument?

No point in assigning blame, both men and women are human and really no different from each other. It's nearly impossible to not have a biased opinion.
When talking about rape, forget about sex or gender. Men get raped by women or other men just as easily (and often) as women get raped by men or other women. The only reason society is so focused on the 'men raping women' bit is because many seem to think that men can't get raped, or if they do then they are 'lucky'.
Trauma is trauma, no matter the age, gender or sex.
And yes, there are always those who abuse the system or 'pretend'... Nothing new there.

"You, my friend, seem to have a lot of pent up anger. I even get the distinct feeling you have a personal stake in that argument?"

Does that tactic work alot for you? I would think it would simply lead to open hostility instead of an arguement

Would you like to concede or rephrase that? its not to your advantage to post it.

and men generally can't get 'raped' by women, they can be raped by larger men, they can be forced into unwanted sex with women who use coersion

but in the sense of rape rape, its nearly impossible for a man to get errect if he's not turned on, and you can't you know, have sex very well with a limp dick.

Ah hell, if I wanted to create a situation, sure a chick could slip prozac into the guys drink and have her way with him.

a woman could drug a guy to make him lose judgement with alcohol and have sex with her, that I've seen happen.

but its alot harder to do, as opposed to say some guy hiding in the bushes and jumping on female joggers as the run thru isolated areas, (seems really strange thing to do actually but people have been doing it recently)

So for the sake of definition, rape, TRUE rape not some various statutory things like a woman teacher sexing a 13 year old student

can't very easily be done from a female to a male.

although looser definition things can be done, most are sexual harassment. not rape. as a man has to cooperate with his body, and a woman doesn't.

Quote from Joentjuh

You, my friend, seem to have a lot of pent up anger. I even get the distinct feeling you have a personal stake in that argument?

No point in assigning blame, both men and women are human and really no different from each other. It's nearly impossible to not have a biased opinion.
When talking about rape, forget about sex or gender. Men get raped by women or other men just as easily (and often) as women get raped by men or other women. The only reason society is so focused on the 'men raping women' bit is because many seem to think that men can't get raped, or if they do then they are 'lucky'.
Trauma is trauma, no matter the age, gender or sex.
And yes, there are always those who abuse the system or 'pretend'... Nothing new there.

Don't feed it.

umm... this is way off track...

lets stop talking about rape....
its disturbing.

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Quote from red255

"You, my friend, seem to have a lot of pent up anger. I even get the distinct feeling you have a personal stake in that argument?"

Does that tactic work alot for you? I would think it would simply lead to open hostility instead of an arguement

Would you like to concede or rephrase that? its not to your advantage to post it.

and men generally can't get 'raped' by women, they can be raped by larger men, they can be forced into unwanted sex with women who use coersion

but in the sense of rape rape, its nearly impossible for a man to get errect if he's not turned on, and you can't you know, have sex very well with a limp dick.

Ah hell, if I wanted to create a situation, sure a chick could slip prozac into the guys drink and have her way with him.

a woman could drug a guy to make him lose judgement with alcohol and have sex with her, that I've seen happen.

but its alot harder to do, as opposed to say some guy hiding in the bushes and jumping on female joggers as the run thru isolated areas, (seems really strange thing to do actually but people have been doing it recently)

So for the sake of definition, rape, TRUE rape not some various statutory things like a woman teacher sexing a 13 year old student

can't very easily be done from a female to a male.

although looser definition things can be done, most are sexual harassment. not rape. as a man has to cooperate with his body, and a woman doesn't.

No, I will not rephrase. No offence was meant and no offence was implied, if you take it that way that's your decision. I only stated that I got the feeling you feel very strongly about the subject, mayhap due to having experience with such a thing happening somewhere near you.
Any choice of open hostility by such a statement is plain foolish. Even if someone says something that you don't quite agree with, what would (open) hostility gain you?

And do you really think that a man would need to have an erection if he were to get raped?... Rape is not so much about the actual act of sex (which doesn't have to be genital contact of both parties, oral and anal classifies as well) but more about the physical and emotional abuse and trauma... The way I see it at least.

I'm going to drop this subject, we're getting too far offtopic and it's apparently a subject opinions just vary too much on, which is expected this being a multi-cultural board.
Let's just agree to disagree and hope people who have actually studied law can come to better conclusions and definitions.

Quote from AnjuxKuran

umm... this is way off track...

lets stop talking about rape....
its disturbing.

Indeed 🙂

Quote from mattai

See that depends on the culture though. If every woman except one is wearing all these layers of covering, the one dressed in jeans and a T-shirt is dressed provocatively, if only by comparison.

Saying someone "shouldn't" have to dress a certain way means little; anyone "should" be able to walk stark-naked down a dark street in the in the shadiest area of town in the middle of the night and not have to worry about being raped; but that doesn't change the fact that in reality, doing so is not a good idea.

There's a big difference between not dressing according to the "standard" and not dressing at all.

Quote from Joentjuh

Euhm, depends on culture?
And who is the judge of what is, and what is not, 'correct' in a culture of which said person may or not affiliate with?
I mean should you judge the dress sense of someone who is walking around in a suburb according to: the general culture of the country you live in, the culture that's most prominent in that suburb, the culture said person affiliates with, or your own culture (which may or may not match any of the above)?
And, wouldn't that be discrimination?

Of course, everything is discrimination; that's why we even have laws to tell us what we can't do or wear that apply to everyone 😐

Of course, there is always common sense, if you were to enter a den of lions you shouldn't be surprised if you were to get bitten...

Sure, men are no more prone to rape women than lions are to eat a gazelle; it's their instinct, and them being creatures without reason they have no means of supressing their instinct 😐 .

[img]http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/WandereroftheDeep/higurashiimage1-1.jpg[/img]

Quote from WandereroftheDeep

Of course, there is always common sense, if you were to enter a den of lions you shouldn't be surprised if you were to get bitten...

Sure, men are no more prone to rape women than lions are to eat a gazelle; it's their instinct, and them being creatures without reason they have no means of suppressing their instinct 😐 .

Sigh, don't twist my words. I'm only saying that if you are aware of the danger you are putting yourself in beforehand, without taking precautions, you shouldn't be surprised when you are actually in danger. There is this thing called survival instinct, if I see (or know) people walking around with guns or with an over active libido, I would steer clear of them.
Assuming you are always and everywhere safe is just plain naive (not talking about rape, but life in general). It's more likely to get stabbed on the street than to get raped anyway.

Quote from WandereroftheDeep

Sure, men are no more prone to rape women than lions are to eat a gazelle; it's their instinct, and them being creatures without reason they have no means of supressing their instinct 😐 .

I wouldn't go that way.

something like 75% (bull shit statistic) of rapes are not reported by women who were 'raped'

This makes concent a tricky pony. as unless you have it in writing, which women just don't do, except maybe high class prostitutes, concent can be given and taken away AFTER the event.

Now lets look at say Kobe Bryant. The story is a bit foggy but here we go with the law:

Kobe has a woman concent to sex, he has sex with her, and wants to do anal, which she didn't concent to explictly.

She later claims to be raped, because she had sex she didn't concent to.

the case is discarded because she had sex with another man later that night, which by some legal defintion she wasnt emotionally damaged and thereby not raped.

or something.

Which brings us out of that entirely, Rape isn't about concent at all. its about emotional damage? Which states what, you can have sex with anyone who want regardless of concent as long as you don't rough her up too much?

Yeah I know Kobe's case was a setup from the girl to get money out of him, and is atypical, but still a large number of alleged rapes aren't reported

Is that because:

1.) they aren't rape.
2.) the woman would be mistreated somehow by reporting.
3.) shame, fear, or other emotions, futility?

hell thats not even the point.

the point or question is what constitutes whether I can have sex with a lady or not? Given that she isn't going to sign a waiver given me express written concent to do my procedure on her.

What do you expect I get before the act, and are you being reasonable with your expectation.

and that varies from culture to culture. from person to person, people who watch oprah and people who watch Montel Williams.

Quote from Joentjuh

Quote from WandereroftheDeep

Of course, there is always common sense, if you were to enter a den of lions you shouldn't be surprised if you were to get bitten...

Sure, men are no more prone to rape women than lions are to eat a gazelle; it's their instinct, and them being creatures without reason they have no means of suppressing their instinct 😐 .

Sigh, don't twist my words. I'm only saying that if you are aware of the danger you are putting yourself in beforehand, without taking precautions, you shouldn't be surprised when you are actually in danger. There is this thing called survival instinct, if I see (or know) people walking around with guns or with an over active libido, I would steer clear of them.
Assuming you are always and everywhere safe is just plain naive (not talking about rape, but life in general). It's more likely to get stabbed on the street than to get raped anyway.

Well, let's say I'm aware I put myself in danger of being raped everytime I leave the house without a (taser)gun (because the Law says I can't have one), and I find myself in a situation where I'm in danger of getting raped; are you trying to say that'd be my own fault for not bringing a (taser)gun?
Well duh, problem is that most of the time you can't tell.
You aren't safe anywhere; you could break your leg falling from the stairs, you could die from a brick falling from a bridge, you could be electrocuted by your hairdryer, you could get struck by lightning, etc. You're only safe when you're dead and six feet under; whatever happens after you won't feel anyway.

@red255: I see the irony has escaped you.

[img]http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/WandereroftheDeep/higurashiimage1-1.jpg[/img]

I know that in korea around the time my parents were born and some time after that, the goverment encourage "less children and rise it right" momentum. they didn't force anyone. It was just a lot of advertisement and persuasion. This is because of the fear that the country can't support the growing population with the resources it had.

Quote from Hespia Klarerin

I know that in korea around the time my parents were born and some time after that, the goverment encourage "less children and rise it right" momentum. they didn't force anyone. It was just a lot of advertisement and persuasion. This is because of the fear that the country can't support the growing population with the resources it had.

What? Talking about less children encouragement in the rape topic?

Mods please.

Quote from Klapzi

Quote from Hespia Klarerin

I know that in korea around the time my parents were born and some time after that, the goverment encourage "less children and rise it right" momentum. they didn't force anyone. It was just a lot of advertisement and persuasion. This is because of the fear that the country can't support the growing population with the resources it had.

What? Talking about less children encouragement in the rape topic?

Mods please.

^
Thank you

this topic is not about rape.

Wonders How To Post A Picture

Quote from Klapzi

Mods please.

Granted.

Locked, because, to be honest, even without it getting reported, this topic is just a bit too controversial at this point.

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