Quote from Dr. Love

I deleted your post, Box. I wanted to PM you elaborating
on my stance, but apparently you ignored me, hmm.

What? that's a damn odious lie. 😀 You moderators ignored me instead. Everytime I tried to pm you about something, I always get the "you got ignored" message. I'm not sure if it is the system or you intentionally deleting my posts and topics and then ignoring me......

hey.....cool, you can ignore mods? lol, hey guys, just ignore them so you don't have to listen to them rant on you anymore. 🤣 They are sort of like the annoying older cousin who always tries to make you do things, no only on the forum, but later creepily talks to you through PM and then say "Arg, no more talking, you get banned now >:-( ". Okay, more like power hungry class presidents.** lol, kidding kidding. Don't hurt me like you did before. I be a good boy now. I will 😢 😢 😢 **

Quote from Gany

Quote from BoxBox

Besides, on controversial issues like these....why would there be a right answer? It be quite arrogant to assume you have the right answer when it depends on your values and belief system. If you are a Christian fundamentalist, the idea of homosexuality is 100% wrong with no justification. If you are an atheist who believes in free love and equal rights to all, you might accept homosexuality as part of human society.

Well, fundamentalism is... fundamentally wrong. It's just a very bad excuse to justify any hardcore belief that someone might have.

Being homosexual cannot be wrong per se, as homosexuals have the right to choose a different sexual orientation no matter what. It's only a difference that every open-minded individual should acknowledge without pushing forward any religious beliefs.

Is it? Is the view of the Pope and 80 percent of Christians on this planet wrong? What makes homosexuality right? I'm not against homosexuality, I'm playing the devil's advocate here to make you guys think more.

Gay book discussion thread

Quote from you_no_see_me_

this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

You're mixing up everything. Not 80% of Christians are either fundamentalists or against homosexuals. That's therefore not a valid point.

Concerning the Pope. I would not trust anything he says. Especially considering that that individual insists on not using condoms because it interrupts the natural flow of births, or whatever c**p it is.

Being homosexual is a matter or choice-sexual orientation isn't it? As a choice, that can be related to any choice in the world. I'll amend what I've said. It cannot be wrong or right. It shall remain as a choice and definitely not related to anything religiously or morally biased.

Quote from Gany

You're mixing up everything. Not 80% of Christians are either fundamentalists or against homosexuals. That's therefore not a valid point.

Concerning the Pope. I would not trust anything he says. Especially considering that that individual insists on not using condoms because it interrupts the natural flow of births, or whatever c**p it is.

Being homosexual is a matter or choice-sexual orientation isn't it? As a choice, that can be related to any choice in the world. I'll amend what I've said. It cannot be wrong or right. It shall remain as a choice and definitely not related to anything religiously or morally biased.

Explain why I am mixing up things? I am not saying 80 percent of Christians are fundamentalist, I am saying 80 percent of Christians are against homosexuality. Even if a Christian isn't a fundamentalist, most are still against homosexuality.

Most homosexuals say it is not a choice but that they are born that way.

Current rational argument against homosexuality...

1. Against evolutionary principles
2. Against God's will
3. Against traditional accepted moral practices
4. Implication that procreation is no longer a reason for marriage and relationships. There's always a belief that sex is just for procreation and necessity
5. Why would someone be just gay? If you were just open to new ideas, everyone should be bisexual. The avoidance of a male-female relationship is indeed odd. If you say gay and straight are equal, then you have to be open to both possibilities and not just sticking with one.

I'll amend what I've said. It cannot be wrong or right.

Well, there's no need for more discussion now.

Gay book discussion thread

Quote from you_no_see_me_

this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

Quote from BoxBox

Explain why I am mixing up things? I am not saying 80 percent of Christians are fundamentalist, I am saying 80 percent of Christians are against homosexuality. Even if a Christian isn't a fundamentalist, most are still against homosexuality.

Yeah right, you wish. Have you any proof of this? Probably repeating some bible belt principles....

Current rational argument against homosexuality...

1. Against evolutionary principles

Against evolutionary principles? Well there is plenty of homosexual mammals on earth, not just humans. We are still animals, remember. Don't worry, there are enough straight people to keep us evolving... Besides I would think that some of those Christians don't even think about the Theory of Evolution. I can't believe some czy i*ts do believe in Creationism. What a great idea indeed.

2. Against God's will

I fail to see how it matters as there is no proof of its existence. Just a perfect entity to asservice people. Anyone can make up its own idea on God's will. There is no consensus, so how do you know if you are correct or not??

3. Against traditional accepted moral practices

Well to "your" moral practices anyway. Not necessarily other's moral beliefs.

4. Implication that procreation is no longer a reason for marriage and relationships. There's always a belief that sex is just for procreation and necessity

Face it. You don't need or have a relationship/marriage to procreate. That's another ancient and preposterous idea. Besides if marriage was the solution to all problems, why do we have so many divorces? Sex is sex period. Whether it's done to procreate or "have fun" doesn't matter.

5. Why would someone be just gay? If you were just open to new ideas, everyone should be bisexual. The avoidance of a male-female relationship is indeed odd. If you say gay and straight are equal, then you have to be open to both possibilities and not just sticking with one.

You make me say something I haven't said. I'm open to everything, gays, straight or bisexual people. If that makes me a liberal, so be it. I'm proud of it. Again it's odd to you and the people who share the same beliefs, but you don't hold the universal truth, therefore I don't think that's odd at all. They are born this way or choose to live that way, it's their lives and neither you nor anyone has the right to hamper their endeavours.

Isn't it fun you guys? I am using other people to prove my own point so I don't have to type them out. 🤣
@Gany

Unfortunately, only your counter point to number 4 is sound, the others are not supported by any point. Do try again. By that I mean elaborate them with reasoning rather than saying " This is preposterous or this will not even be considered possible"

For example, your response

Well to "your" moral practices anyway. Not necessarily other's moral beliefs

Does not actually argue any point. I don't think you saw what the point was. I'll repeat that again, "Traditional Moral principles" are mostly against homosexuality is almost every culture in every continent. It's not just my belief, it's almost everyone's belief. If it is just mine, then gay rights shouldn't be a problem right?

Also to clarify, I support gay rights, I am merely acting like a devil's advocate to "lure" out more points from members of both sides. That's the purpose of Dr. Love's topic right? To reasonably argue out points and not be like "Wahh, I can't argue my points because I don't have any. He's bullying me with rational arguments." Here the intellectual men are separated from the ignorant cry babies.

Gay book discussion thread

Quote from you_no_see_me_

this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

Actually you don't prove anything but the fact you want people to argue with. I admit that when reading about God's will or standard moral principles riles me up a bit. And I don't really think you would have brought that whole paragraph up if you weren't in its favor.

In fact, you don't back up anything you say and discard whatever you don't like in your interlocutor's message. It's just happened with me and all the guys before.

Basically you have your own assumptions and consider what you write as de facto correct. Unless you base what you write on facts, is isn't at all.

Here is an example or your argumentation :

Is it? Is the view of the Pope and 80 percent of Christians on this planet wrong?

Not only you have no proof of such figures and it's furthermore an appeal to belief fallacy. And therefore not valid. You don't bring up anything but words without base.

Now onto the topic : The decision to consider homosexuality as wrong or that is should be avoided is based mostly on religious beliefs. These should not be taken into consideration to me, because they are all based on nothing. Traditional moral principles are based on religions (Islam, Christianity whatever) and therefore not valid as well.

There is another point against homosexuality : Some people are afraid of homosexuals because they behave differently. But being different doesn't make yourself right or wrong. There is nothing against homosexuality but fear. And being afraid is not a valid reason to do anything to such people. Honestly it's very often the same problem for many subjects : abortion (if done within 12 weeks), homosexuality. They are all affected by religious beliefs which should be discarded at any rate. Essentially because the formers don't bring any solid argument against them.

Oh besides. Behaving within the standard moral principles doesn't make you right or wrong either. It's just that some kind of majority thinks that way. But the majority isn't always right.

Quote from Gany

Being homosexual cannot be wrong per se, as homosexuals have the right to choose a different sexual orientation no matter what. It's only a difference that every open-minded individual should acknowledge without pushing forward any religious beliefs.

Not a choice. You can't CHOOSE to be sexually attracted to someone just like you can't CHOOSE who you love.

[img]https://www.yourgimmick.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/banner1.jpg[/img]

Quote from Kitteh_13

Quote from Gany

Being homosexual cannot be wrong per se, as homosexuals have the right to choose a different sexual orientation no matter what. It's only a difference that every open-minded individual should acknowledge without pushing forward any religious beliefs.

Not a choice. You can't CHOOSE to be sexually attracted to someone just like you can't CHOOSE who you love.

You cannot choose it conscientiously, ok. Your brain does it for you.

And I personally believe that a person do choose its partner to a certain extent. Unless it's love a first sight which overrides pretty much any rational reasoning.

Quote from Gany

Being homosexual is a matter or choice-sexual orientation isn't it? As a choice, that can be related to any choice in the world. I'll amend what I've said. It cannot be wrong or right. It shall remain as a choice and definitely not related to anything religiously or morally biased.

I choose to identify as gay, but I did not choose to feel this way.

like brutelord said, it's the same for me I never chose to be attracted in any way to the same sex, it was always there, it's only a choice whether I want to hide who I am or be open.

I'm for it. I'm straight and I accept (not tolerate) gay and lesbian people for one simple reason: they are people. As long as they're good people, I don't care what their sexual orientation is.

As for the issue of people being born gay or choosing to be gay, I'm not sure if either one is correct, but I lean more towards the being born gay part. I'm loosely paraphrasing one of my professors, but I believe he told me that there is something genetically different between homosexual and heterosexual people. This was based on a study or something. He would be able to explain it better than me. However, if there is something genetically different between homosexuals and heterosexuals, doesn't that mean people are born gay or straight? Either way, I choose to accept gay and lesbian people.

For girl on girl, I don't mind, just don't get me involved. 🤣
For guy on guy, I am 100% for it! 8D

To be more serious, who gives a damn if your straight, bisexual, or homesexual? If people bring up the whole "God" thing, I think you need to find a better excuse to be against homesexuality. If "God" made it possible for men to like men and women to like women, what's the problem? And why should who you fall for have to do anything to do with anyone else besides you and the other person? 😐

Last but not least, people are endtitled to their own opinion(s), so don't go off saying what "is" right and what "is" wrong.

My opinion:

Homosexuality is alright as long as there is no involvement for me in the matter.I don't see why religion and evolution should come into this matter. It is wrong to impose your religious beliefs onto other people and there is enough straight people in this world to guarantee that the whole evolutionary aspect won't be a problem What i don't appreciate is men hitting on me when I go to town, when I am with my mates and clearly showing am only interested only in girls. I have been hit on so many times when I go to town, its just not good. I wish gay men would learn to differentiate between which men are gay and which men are not but I guess when your drunk its hard. Thats the only problem I have because I don't really take it as a compliment like other people tend to do when they are hit on by people of the same sex. I am alg with lesbians though, the couple of lesbian friends I have are awesome people, and hell yea its awesome seeing two hot girls making out.

Its different for me, if I see two guyz making out I look away, if I see two girls making out damn thats good.

Angel Beats--best anime of the 2010 spring season

I have trouble with couples in general, but not necessarily homo's. For example...

If I see a male and female kiss in public, I'll look away.
If I see two females kiss in public, I'll look away.
If I see two males kiss in public, I'll look away.

But I still like females 😀 Woo for females!

I think polls on things like this are ridiculous, because it's something that individual peoples opinions on don't matter. Obviously I voted I'm okay with it. Anything who voted the last one, you're more disgusting than a gay person could ever be. Don't have too high a regard for the next to last voters either.

I have trouble with couples in general, but not necessarily homo's. For example...

If I see a male and female kiss in public, I'll look away.
If I see two females kiss in public, I'll look away.
If I see two males kiss in public, I'll look away.

Yeah, I hate PDA. The line stops at hand holding, anything else go home!