Quote from Mamsmilk

Yaoi is still homolicious anal dicking gay porn for women.

/thread.

[img]http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/azrinirza/makotoshinkai1_zpse3901c5a.gif[/img]
Everyday I'm tumblin'

This thread is getting off topic...

This thread is supposed to be about Amazon's weird attempt at censorship for no apparent reason at all.

Mamsmilk, there's a difference between erotica and porn. You make it sound like yaoi is plotless and loveless. Either way, the broader discussion of your definition of the genre should be taken elsewhere. The yaoi titles being removed from the Amazon store are more along the line of erotica than porn, according to people who bought them before Amazon removed them.

Some of the titles are back up, but some of the yaoi prose has been edited...it's just words, sheesh. No need to actually edit the original source material...

Quote from Bunny-chan

Calling my work "porn", or "gay porn"... it offends me deeply, I feel like my work is being raped of the beautiful artwork that it is. Yes, yaoi means exactly what you said, that is why us professionals hate to use that term, actually, most artists don't even use that term, even while writing doujinshi, since it is offensive...

Drawing BLis hard work, getting the sexual positions correctly takes time and practice... and I find it very enjoyable when I get my art to look nice.

ero-manga artists... to be honest, drawing ACTUAL adult manga is considered the lowest part of the manga industry. Many people who draw eromanga draw it so they can move up to draw better work that is not pornography. ANYONE can submit work to a ero-manga publisher, and most eromanga I have seen are just sex, tentacles etc. but some aren't. I dislike how women are treated in such work as well.

... and if anyone wants to know why I am offended by the term "porn" but I still love Ashika Sakura's Sensitive Pornograph, Ms. Gokurakuin told me how she REALLY came up with that title, but I am respecting her privacy so I am not going to say.

OK, look. You're nice enough, but you're setting yourself up for some enormous double standards here. For instance, you don't like how "women are portrayed in eromanga," but by the same token I don't know a single male, gay or otherwise, who appreciates their portrayal in BL work, if we must call it that. Additionally, you call your own work "beautiful art" (which is laughably arrogant, frankly), and as such espouse that the, in deference to your aversion to the work "pornographic" we'll call it "explicit," are methods of artistic expression. Why the hell could the same not be true of an eromanga writer? It seems to me that a person wanting to move up in an industry (though despite the stereotype I would suggest that constitutes only a slim margin of the total workbase) would consciously make an effort to do the best job possible. Think logically before rationalizing away statements as perceived persecutions.

BTW, non-eromanga manga publishers also accept general submissions, though they are discouraged. Traditional Japanese publishers (as in, text-based) require submissions to be delivered through contests and the like, often through magazine proxies instead, but manga companies are incredibly laid-back by comparison. So if you want to talk about "lower" art forms or whatever, the whole manga industry in general would really fall into that category from a societal perspective, even if you're as good as Asano Inio.

[img]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt122/Wthuh/CrenshiSig.jpg[/img]
Reviews of my Work:
You are kind of boring - Blackorion
Congratulations! Ur an asshole! - tokyo_homi
**Your awesome!!! **- Cherelle_Ashley
NightSwan also said that she wanted to peg me, once, but I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or a threat...

Quote from miko amayo

Mamsmilk, there's a difference between erotica and porn. You make it sound like yaoi is plotless and loveless.

That is beside the point.
Porn = pornography.
Everything that portrays human body and coitus
for pleasure driven by sexuality, is porn.
Erotica is a sub genre of pornography.
You're mistaking western pornographic
film industry as the main meaning of the word.

Quote from Mamsmilk

Quote from miko amayo

Mamsmilk, there's a difference between erotica and porn. You make it sound like yaoi is plotless and loveless.

That is beside the point.
Porn = pornography.
Everything that portrays human body and coitus
for pleasure driven by sexyality, is porn.
Erotica is a sub genre of pornography.
You're mistaking western pornographic
film industry as the main meaning of the word.

Also, by definition ("yama nashi ochi nashi imi nashi") yaoi would technically be plotless, even if that is created to be intentionally self-deprecating and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on content.

[img]http://i604.photobucket.com/albums/tt122/Wthuh/CrenshiSig.jpg[/img]
Reviews of my Work:
You are kind of boring - Blackorion
Congratulations! Ur an asshole! - tokyo_homi
**Your awesome!!! **- Cherelle_Ashley
NightSwan also said that she wanted to peg me, once, but I'm not sure whether to take that as a compliment or a threat...

Quote from Crenshinibon

Quote from Mamsmilk

Quote from miko amayo

Mamsmilk, there's a difference between erotica and porn. You make it sound like yaoi is plotless and loveless.

That is beside the point.
Porn = pornography.
Everything that portrays human body and coitus
for pleasure driven by sexyality, is porn.
Erotica is a sub genre of pornography.
You're mistaking western pornographic
film industry as the main meaning of the word.

Also, by definition ("yama nashi ochi nashi imi nashi") yaoi would technically be plotless, even if that is created to be intentionally self-deprecating and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on content.

YAmete!
Oshiri ga
Itai!

[img]http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa229/azrinirza/makotoshinkai1_zpse3901c5a.gif[/img]
Everyday I'm tumblin'

No.... no please. BL is romance... its not like that. And if it is, then well, I don't like it. Erotica is not really considered porn, the term erotica I believe was made by artists to DISTINGUISH "porn" from their artwork they work so hard to create.

Mamsmilk, please read:
http://www.yaoicon.com/what-is-yaoi/

....

Are you familiar with fujyoshi?

Quote from scyfon

YAmete!
Oshiri ga
Itai!

Yes dear, we ALL know. LOL

OK, look. You're nice enough, but you're setting yourself up for some enormous double standards here. For instance, you don't like how "women are portrayed in eromanga," but by the same token I don't know a single male, gay or otherwise, who appreciates their portrayal in BL work, if we must call it that. Additionally, you call your own work "beautiful art" (which is laughably arrogant, frankly), and as such espouse that the, in deference to your aversion to the work "pornographic" we'll call it "explicit," are methods of artistic expression. Why the hell could the same not be true of an eromanga writer? It seems to me that a person wanting to move up in an industry (though despite the stereotype I would suggest that constitutes only a slim margin of the total workbase) would consciously make an effort to do the best job possible. Think logically before rationalizing away statements as perceived persecutions.

BTW, non-eromanga manga publishers also accept general submissions, though they are discouraged. Traditional Japanese publishers (as in, text-based) require submissions to be delivered through contests and the like, often through magazine proxies instead, but manga companies are incredibly laid-back by comparison. So if you want to talk about "lower" art forms or whatever, the whole manga industry in general would really fall into that category from a societal perspective, even if you're as good as Asano Inio.

Ah, the internet, it is so hard to communicate isn't it?

sighs okay, yes, there is some eromanga that portray more normal sex, and ones that do I believe are a lot like the "hardcore BL" everyone speaks of. Yes, there are some eromanga that are thoroughly artistic (MARUO Suehiro) I'm only saying "yaoi" because thats what Western fans see accustomed to calling it.

“𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝓇𝑜𝓈𝑒'𝓈 𝓇𝒶𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓉 𝑒𝓈𝓈𝑒𝓃𝒸𝑒 𝓁𝒾𝓋𝑒𝓈 𝒾𝓃 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝒽𝑜𝓇𝓃𝓈.” ― 𝑀𝒶𝓌𝓁𝒶𝓃𝒶 𝒥𝒶𝓁𝒶𝓁-𝒶𝓁-𝒟𝒾𝓃 𝑅𝓊𝓂𝒾.
あたしは腐女子です。少女漫画、たくさん読んでください。

Quote from Bunny-chan

Quote from scyfon

YAmete!
Oshiri ga
Itai!

Yes dear, we ALL know. LOL

I just LOVE condescending people. LOL

Quote from Bunny-chan

Ah, the internet, it is so hard to communicate isn't it?

It's not hard to communicate, it's just hard to facilitate fact flow into thick skulls that have personal opinions formed and set in stone.

Quote from Bunny-chan

Are you familiar with fujyoshi?

Some of my best friends are fujoshi, rotten to the core. 🤣

If the sea were made of Whiskey and I was a duck
I'd swim to the bottom and never come up

Quote from bedob

Quote from Bunny-chan

Quote from scyfon

YAmete!
Oshiri ga
Itai!

Yes dear, we ALL know. LOL

I just LOVE condescending people. LOL

Quote from Bunny-chan

Ah, the internet, it is so hard to communicate isn't it?

It's not hard to communicate, it's just hard to facilitate fact flow into thick skulls that have personal opinions formed and set in stone.

Quote from Bunny-chan

Are you familiar with fujyoshi?

Some of my best friends are fujoshi, rotten to the core. 🤣

Oh, I'm sorr if I come off as overly opinionated, I'm honestly not trying to be.

“𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝓇𝑜𝓈𝑒'𝓈 𝓇𝒶𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓉 𝑒𝓈𝓈𝑒𝓃𝒸𝑒 𝓁𝒾𝓋𝑒𝓈 𝒾𝓃 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝒽𝑜𝓇𝓃𝓈.” ― 𝑀𝒶𝓌𝓁𝒶𝓃𝒶 𝒥𝒶𝓁𝒶𝓁-𝒶𝓁-𝒟𝒾𝓃 𝑅𝓊𝓂𝒾.
あたしは腐女子です。少女漫画、たくさん読んでください。

Even after your link, it is still porn.
It's a fantasy form which focuses on the romantic, emotional and above all sexual relationships of guys together. Even if you add awful cotton candy dialog, porn remains porn.
And it is not like I did not know it before hand, especially after being for a long time with NightSwan and listening to her deranged fetish tinted thoughts before you even took a halfassed interest in guys. I've read yaoi. I've watched yaoi. I've read hentai. I've watched hentai. There is no difference. Softcore works are softcore and hardcore works are hardcore. I know where I am coming from.

Quote from Mamsmilk

Even after your link, it is still porn.
It's a fantasy form which focuses on the romantic, emotional and above all sexual relationships of guys together. Even if you add awful cotton candy dialog, porn remains porn.
And it is not like I did not know it before hand, especially after being for a long time with NightSwan and listening to her deranged fetish tinted thoughts before you even took a halfassed interest in guys. I've read yaoi. I've watched yaoi. I've read hentai. I've watched hentai. There is no difference. Softcore works are softcore and hardcore works are hardcore. I know where I am coming from.

And as a mangaka working in Japan, you would know? Seriously, you are being sort of... well, pushy... not all BL is like that. And your description does not fit all BL, your description sounds like that gawdawful OAV, Legend of Blue Wolves, which was made by Digital Works, same as SP, but is disgusting, yes. sigh

“𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝓇𝑜𝓈𝑒'𝓈 𝓇𝒶𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓉 𝑒𝓈𝓈𝑒𝓃𝒸𝑒 𝓁𝒾𝓋𝑒𝓈 𝒾𝓃 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝒽𝑜𝓇𝓃𝓈.” ― 𝑀𝒶𝓌𝓁𝒶𝓃𝒶 𝒥𝒶𝓁𝒶𝓁-𝒶𝓁-𝒟𝒾𝓃 𝑅𝓊𝓂𝒾.
あたしは腐女子です。少女漫画、たくさん読んでください。

Quote from Bunny-chan

Quote from Mamsmilk

Even after your link, it is still porn.
It's a fantasy form which focuses on the romantic, emotional and [u]above all sexual relationships of guys together[/u]. Even if you add awful cotton candy dialog, porn remains porn.
And it is not like I did not know it before hand, especially after being for a long time with NightSwan and listening to her deranged fetish tinted thoughts before you even took a halfassed interest in guys. I've read yaoi. I've watched yaoi. I've read hentai. I've watched hentai. There is no difference. Softcore works are softcore and hardcore works are hardcore. I know where I am coming from.

And as a mangaka working in Japan, you would know?

That does not mean shit. As a kid you would know?

Why are you being so agressive?

...

I am not a kid... sigh

As an American who has not worked for Be x Boy you would know? Libre is a wonderful company.

“𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝓇𝑜𝓈𝑒'𝓈 𝓇𝒶𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓉 𝑒𝓈𝓈𝑒𝓃𝒸𝑒 𝓁𝒾𝓋𝑒𝓈 𝒾𝓃 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝒽𝑜𝓇𝓃𝓈.” ― 𝑀𝒶𝓌𝓁𝒶𝓃𝒶 𝒥𝒶𝓁𝒶𝓁-𝒶𝓁-𝒟𝒾𝓃 𝑅𝓊𝓂𝒾.
あたしは腐女子です。少女漫画、たくさん読んでください。

When you actually are old enough to discuss the threads in 18+, come visit again.

Clearly your sexuality is not developed enough to even see these things in
proper light.
There is nothing in yaoi that is not porn. It is 2 guys fucking and you are watching
like any depraved fetishist.

As a bisexual adult male, you would know what it is like to fuck a man and
what the whole thing is about? You can only live a delusion.

Quote from Mamsmilk

When you actually are old enough to discuss the threads in 18+, come visit again.

Clearly your sexuality is not developed enough to even see these things in
proper light.
There is nothing in yaoi that is not porn. It is 2 guys fucking and you are watching
like any depraved fetishist.

As a bisexual adult male, you would know?

Seriously, I am not a child, the date was just wrong. Please stop pushing a professional like you know stuff like you have worked in such an enviroment.

And stop using the term yaoi, it is not a professional term, like I said, I only use the term because it is used in the west. My sexuality is none of your business.

Because you are bisexual? So, in Japan BL is aimed at teenage girls in their late teens. No-one is legally an adult here until they are 20 actually.

As a bisexual male, maybe you would know that anal sex doesn't work like it does in BL (well, there are some more realistic views of homosexuality portrayed in BL manga)

BL is beautiful. It is an art. And it wouldn't exist without shojo mangaka. If you hate BL (yaoi etc.) blame TAKEMIYA Keiko, HAGIO Moto etc.

Your deranged view of BL is probably based on corn dildoes, closet rabbits and space wolves isn't it?

“𝒯𝒽𝑒 𝓇𝑜𝓈𝑒'𝓈 𝓇𝒶𝓇𝑒𝓈𝓉 𝑒𝓈𝓈𝑒𝓃𝒸𝑒 𝓁𝒾𝓋𝑒𝓈 𝒾𝓃 𝓉𝒽𝑒 𝓉𝒽𝑜𝓇𝓃𝓈.” ― 𝑀𝒶𝓌𝓁𝒶𝓃𝒶 𝒥𝒶𝓁𝒶𝓁-𝒶𝓁-𝒟𝒾𝓃 𝑅𝓊𝓂𝒾.
あたしは腐女子です。少女漫画、たくさん読んでください。