Quote from Casey D. Geek

Quote from Hikari13

well people usually don't eat meat for two reasons- religion, or an extreme love of animals. Once those people have kids they set them in the path of not eating meat and after a time of being in that path it really becomes about their health. Because if all of the sudden you give meat to someone who is not used to eating meat they will usually have a bad reaction, specially if it's deep fried. Also some people become vegetarians because they want to change bad eating habits in a way that will give the maximum results

I see no problem though, if the person is healthy I don't see a reason for then to start eating meat if they don't feel like it. And, vice-versa if someone is healthy eating meat no one should force that person to change their eating habits

Oooooh, that reminds me. My pet pukes when he tastes blood, and he's a carnivore 🤢 I wonder if that's wrong or wrong.

if he is used to only consuming store-bought dog food, then indeed that may be the reason. To his stomach is a foreign and odd intruder. One time a friend gave me his dog to baby sit for a week. I gave it some leftover meat and Bla puked it like it was poison. Apparently I could only give him the $50 stuff (-_-)'

Oh, no, it's not like that. He's fit and healthy - it's just that my mother has never allowed him to eat anything non-veg 🤢
He eats chappati and soya, and, of course, anything he can get from us using the extortion instrument that some people call eyes. But never, ever, nonveg.

There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.

Quote from Casey D. Geek

Quote from you_no_see_me_

well...for some species the parent eats the child and animals have no qualms with eating our children so why should we...and most of the species that are used for food have no major emotions other that the desire to eat, sleep,crap, and mate

And the desire to live. They go down screaming, struggling to live. As they realise what is going to happen to them, that they will die in a small room, by butcher's cleaver, the are filled with fear and horror, and they die fighting to live.
Remind you of something?

its not necessarily the will to live as much as the fear of a foreign object...maybe...and animals that are killed for food are not done by butchers for the majority because it would take to long...normally it is done by machine in which an electric bolt is applied to the animal making it unconscious before being killed...another method is be being killed by mechanical gunshot...the ways that animals are killed for food is done in a way that causes almost no pain or no pain at all...while in the wild animals thrash each other about until their prey is dead...we provide the animals which would be killed in nature by a much crueler method a quick and painless one...so think about it this way...if you got everyone to stop eating meat then the meat industry would die and animals would be thrashed around and ripped apart by other animals all the time because you thought it odd to eat meat even though we are omnivores who naturally eat meat...hm...kinda long isn't it

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In the wild, they stand a chance. In automated catle ranches they don't.

As I said before, I don't condemn those who eat meat. Man is an omnivore, and has been eating meat for millinea. You can't change an entire species' source of nutrition.

However, I do believe that man, who considers himself to be above the savage animals - beasts, they are called - should be able to turn to less brutal means of feeding himself, now that he has traveled so far from his beginnings an ape.

It's a choice, and not everybody agrees with everybody else's choice. Doesn't mean you are wrong, does it?

There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.

Quote from aetherwyn

Quote from Mamsmilk

Just remember to eat healthy kids.
Moralism won't defeat biochemistry.
People go vegan when they are exposed too much to aggravated confrontation and Disney movies. Everything we eat is alive in some sense. Just because plants and such are less like us in structure than animals does not make it any less an ethic choice to end their lives to prolong yours than to eat animals.
You do not eat for an ism, you eat for your body. No matter what you eat, you are directly killing something by eating it and indirectly killing something by competing for food sources.
No matter what you eat or when you eat or how it was born and for what purpose, all living beings aim to stay alive. Every choice you make limits some other life. Even if you grew that stuff yourself, you eat food that some pest could use for the brood.

Uh... plants aren't sentient. Animals are. That argument seems illogical.

I've been a vegetarian for a while now; I just can't eat animals. To me, "meat is murder."

What does being sentient have to do with anything?
No living organism's goal is to die.
Just because something can sense does not make
its life worth more.

We all are trying to put a specific value onto an animals life. We should consider the fact that this is impossible. In this world, there are many "bad" things, as they say. I believe this was discussed in a topic "what is wrong with the world" or similar. In a world filled with atrocities, if we can stop some atrocities, save some lives, in what sense is that not good? And what is the difference between a human and an animal? The ability to think, feel? Does that reduce the "value" of it's life in any way? A life saved is a life saved, no matter whom it belongs to.

We do not understand the mind as well as we think we do, and I mean this scientifically, not spiritually. We do not know wether they feel emotions or not, or what type of emotions they feel, or if they don't feel, what they think. Wether they feel or not, they live.

There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.

Quote from Casey D. Geek

We all are trying to put a specific value onto an animals life. We should consider the fact that this is impossible. In this world, there are many "bad" things, as they say. I believe this was discussed in a topic "what is wrong with the world" or similar. In a world filled with atrocities, if we can stop some atrocities, save some lives, in what sense is that not good? And what is the difference between a human and an animal? The ability to think, feel? Does that reduce the "value" of it's life in any way? A life saved is a life saved, no matter whom it belongs to.

We do not understand the mind as well as we think we do, and I mean this scientifically, not spiritually. We do not know wether they feel emotions or not, or what type of emotions they feel, or if they don't feel, what they think. Wether they feel or not, they live.

So do insects and germs. Is it immoral for someone to remove lice from his/her hair?

As far as you know, from a cow's perspective, living up until its prime, then dying painlessly is a life of superior quality to anything it would experience in the wild. No starvation, no being hunted, less chance of sickness or disease.

"It is those who know little, and not those who know much, who so positively assert that this or that problem will never be solved by science."

I mainly don't eat meat because it is my way of protesting the food industry. The whole saving animals thing just happens to be an added benefit.

Not only do I not eat meat, but I try to cut out processed and unhealthy food as well.
I've stopped drinking stuff like milk, and I've gone all-out soy.

I've cut out dairy and eggs and meat mainly for health reasons, as well as my own personal enjoyment.
I enjoy eating this way, and I like my dietary lifestyle right now.
Honestly you can really tell the difference when you stop eating gross industry food.
I'm not saying that everyone should go vegan, but eating natural and organic will help anyone.

Quote from Casey D. Geek

if we can stop some atrocities, save some lives, in what sense is that not good? And what is the difference between a human and an animal? The ability to think, feel? Does that reduce the "value" of it's life in any way? A life saved is a life saved, no matter whom it belongs to.

...

Quote from mattai

So do insects and germs. Is it immoral for someone to remove lice from his/her hair?

Beat me to it, mattai.

What of these less noticeable organism, Casey?
Each time you shower, each time you wash your hands, hair etc, you are killing microorganisms.
Do you not consider those as "lives worth saving", or do they have no value since you can't see them/ they don't have pleading eyes to make you feel sorry for them?

Also, on the subject of "saving lives", it has already been found that the major cause of greenhouse emissions are livestock. Livestock which, vegans and vegetarians alike, think deserve to be untouched. So the way I see it, by eating meat, we are indirectly saving the world from the greenhouse effect >_>

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Everyday I'm tumblin'

Well people seem to think of animals, like chicken, or pig, or dog or cats or apes, to "deserve more to live" than plants, tree bacteria. This seem solely based on how much that living thing rate on an animal intelligence test and how much emotion and feeling it feels. In truth, I do not fully disagree. For animals that have brains more developed enough that they can feel not only nerve signals but also emotions like fear, loyalty, anger, despair....maybe they do need more consideration before killing them.

Gay book discussion thread

Quote from you_no_see_me_

this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

.

There is some evidence to show that certain, shall we say "higher," mammals have significant intelligence, emotions, and some even insist consciences. The most prevalent example of this is the Bottle-Nosed Dolphin.

Also, your assertion that animals don't feel anything about killing to survive is impossible to prove either way. You are not that animal, you do not understand that animal. If they have emotional capacity, it may not even manifest in form that we would recognize.

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Quote from Scyfon

Also, on the subject of "saving lives", it has already been found that the major cause of greenhouse emissions are livestock. Livestock which, vegans and vegetarians alike, think deserve to be untouched. So the way I see it, by eating meat, we are indirectly saving the world from the greenhouse effect >_>

This is actually backwards. If huge numbers of animals weren't being constantly raised and killed for meat, the total number of livestock (even if you include dairy animals) would be much smaller.

This is not a case where there is some population that is being kept under control by predation or hunting, this is a case where there are artificially huge numbers of livestock being kept purely for slaughter.

"[English] not only borrows words from other languages; it has on occasion chased other languages down dark alley-ways, clubbed them unconscious and rifled their pockets for new vocabulary."
-James Nicoll, can.general, March 21, 1992

Quote from TofuQueen

Quote from Scyfon

Also, on the subject of "saving lives", it has already been found that the major cause of greenhouse emissions are livestock. Livestock which, vegans and vegetarians alike, think deserve to be untouched. So the way I see it, by eating meat, we are indirectly saving the world from the greenhouse effect >_>

This is actually backwards. If huge numbers of animals weren't being constantly raised and killed for meat, the total number of livestock (even if you include dairy animals) would be much smaller.

This is not a case where there is some population that is being kept under control by predation or hunting, this is a case where there are artificially huge numbers of livestock being kept purely for slaughter.

Factual statement is factual.

You hit the nail on the head. Of course, the reason we have so much livestock is that our population continues to grow exponentially... so in the end, you can trace everything back to our expansion.

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Man. I guess I didn't think about how my statement could have been misconstrued, and for that, I'm sorry. I put "meat is murder" in quotations because I was referring to the name of an album by The Smiths. I did not, in any way, intend to label someone a murderer because they eat meat. I'm pretty damn accepting of whatever anyone else eats. My friends stuff White Castle burgers down their throats (exaggeratedly) in front of me all the time, just to make me roll my eyes and grin. My brothers rip the meat off of fried chicken with a smirk whenever I'm around. It grosses me out, but I don't care what they do. Their attempts at making me gag are even pretty funny sometimes.

So again, please don't think I'm trying to be pretentious or holier-than-thou or that I'm calling anyone a murderer. I'm not.

I referenced that album, because, as I said, to me, meat is murder. It absolutely disgusts me. I can't stomach the thought of eating another sentient being. Disparage me all you want, claim that animals are stupid and should be treated accordingly, but I love animals and I always will. I can't eat them.

And while I understand the argument that animals "do not have a conscience," and therefore it's not a big deal to eat them... I completely disagree. I like to think that, as a human, I can make decisions that other animals cannot. I can make the decision to eat a plant-based diet. I don't have to harm any other sentient being to live a healthy lifestyle, even when other animals obviously are not as cognitively developed as humans are and cannot make a similar choice.

Just because they can't do something, doesn't mean I should lower myself to a barbaric level as well. It seems silly.

Edit: Oh, and I don't think some animals were put on this planet "for man to eat." Animals all developed over the course of time. Evolution, and all that scientific jazz. It doesn't seem likely that they developed just so people could eat hamburgers, but maybe that's just me? XD

"Without you, today's emotions would be the scurf of yesterday's."