cliches are annoying when they're stupid and don't make sense.

i.e, yes, characters fall in love all the time. theoretically, that's "cliche". but it's only ACTUALLY cliche when the only reason the characters are falling in love... is because characters fall in love all the time.

i.e. there has to be a justification or a logic to it beyond "well this is what always happens therefore accept it"

cliche in characters often leads to very flat, unbelievable, or annoying characters.

the cool mean guy falls in love with the stupid/naive but cheerful/innocent (or, even worse, the weak and helpless) girl, for example. The problem with the thousands of manga that do this is that usually the character can be completely summed up using the two adjectives I just gave above. (Cool+mean, stupid+cheerful...) This makes the manga incredibly boring to read, because the characters are cardboard...

cliche in plot can, again, lead to very unbelievable plots... "twists" (that shouldn;t even be called "Twists" because they've been done so many times before) happen even without it making sense, just because the manga needs to have some pathetic excuse for "plot" (worst of all is drama that is actually very minor and easily resolved but gets blown up into a huge angst fest)

more importantly, because you see everything coming from miles and miles away, cliche plots are unbearably boring.

unoriginal/illogical/flat is usually what people mean by "cliche"

in the broader sense, though, "cliche" isn't necessarily bad... for example, I like Nakahara Aya's manga. It's "cliche" in that you know within the first chapter who will end up with whom... But the characters themselves are rounded out and appealing. Of course, once we're discussing cliche in that sense, we're really talking more about tropes 😉

If the mangaka can make it feel fresh, I don't care if it's actually a cliche. It all depends on how it's written- sometimes a cliche can be quite satisfying.

I will agree though, with the posts on the first page or so, that it seems like the childhood friend never wins. Sure there are some, but never when I want them to. 😔

Mostly what's frustrating is when the girl or guy just seems too stupid to live. Like, I don't necessarily care if the girl is weak if it's done realistically, or if she has some skills to counterbalance that. But I hate when she's all, "this guy hates me but he's so hot, I'm worthless but if I whine long enough maybe he'll notice me." 🙄 Maybe girls in shoujo don't have enough self-respect? Though there are some good ones out there, too~

The best is when a tired cliche is done with a new twist.

because im sick of the same concepts repeated over and over again;
not to mention how degrading to women it can be too (for example the girl is controlled by the guy & he treats her like crap)

I think that shoujo manga's with the leading characters starting out as friends is okay. Why do they have to fall in love at first sight? Either one actually. The reason I really enjoyed a manga like Lovely Complex is because the two main characters were funny, [and even though the main guy didn't realize his love until like FOREVER,] the girl didn't nag nag nag. She wasn't the typical, cute girl who goes for any guy, and even when she DID stray, he made her like him again. And he wasn't a total ass about it. And i did like the idea of them making you wait for the "big kiss". It's nice that they don't have to have an awkward forceful kiss/rape every other page. 😃

[CENTER][img]http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblue.jpg[/img]Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]

“I don't know that love changes. People change. Circumstances change.” - Nicholas Sparks

there's nothing wrong with them in my opinion when you look at each shoujo title standing alone, it's just when you read 5 shoujos in a row and they all follow the same pattern. it gets old fast

Live, love, laugh <3