writing long posts like that is immoral and im not gonna read it, yet. 😛

^Haha "Good God!" @ Takiko

(Oh right, no God stuff)

I don't like to get into philosophical questions on forums (bad for my eyes) so I'll sum it up with:

Morality is whatever I say it is. ( 😀 pun intended)

And that goes for everyone else. Sorry to interrupt. Carry on.

I think its funny how some people think that the world would be more peacefull wihtout humans. Nature is just one big fat never ending war. Don't give me this hippy gaia theory harmony BS.

Trees and plants fight each other for sunlight and nutriants.
Animals fight for food, the weakest die.
Animals fight each other to determine who gets to mate, the weaker don't have children.
Animals sometimes kill the children of rival males.
Animals and plants, given the chance, will multipy and multiply untill they completly screw a eco system and then their populations collapses.

All in all, i would consider us nicer.

Quote from bully_jesus

I think its funny how some people think that the world would be more peacefull wihtout humans. Nature is just one big fat never ending war. Don't give me this hippy gaia theory harmony BS.

Trees and plants fight each other for sunlight and nutriants.
Animals fight for food, the weakest die.
Animals fight each other to determine who gets to mate, the weaker don't have children.
Animals sometimes kill the children of rival males.
Animals and plants, given the chance, will multipy and multiply untill they completly screw a eco system and then their populations collapses.

All in all, i would consider us nicer.

not really.....because of us, the whole ecosystem is falling apart. We kill insects with pesticides, fish with toxic waste, bird with toxic fumes, and animal by cutting the forest down. We are pretty much making the environment more suitable for us, and less suitable for the others. Ironically, doing this would cause our ecosystem to collapse and therefore our own damnation. We are the immoral part of nature. Perhaps our wisdom, like the story of Adam and Eve, dooms all humanity? 🙁

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Morality does have a reason to exist. Everything have a reason to exist. Morality keeps people from trouble. For example, you should not go on the street and kill people. Because soon, these people will come and kill you. Right? these morality rule keeps our society together. That's what separates us from barbarians and animals.

And this is not the point. 'Morality' doesn't exist if God doesn't exist because of two main things.

A) Nobody has moral authority. Therefore any sort of blanket concept of 'good' and 'evil' is useless. What makes YOUR morality better than a murderer's morality? Absolutely nothing without the backing of some sort of higher presence.

B) If morality comes to us naturally, it means it came to us as a result of evolution. 'Evolution' relies on change, and unless you believe that evolution has ended as of now, this also means that 'morality,' as a result of evolution, will also change, as a result of evolution. Which means that if killing indiscriminately is considered bad now, it may be good in the future.

'Morality' as it's being used right now doesn't exist without some sort of higher presence backing a certain morality. Does it have to be God? No.

Your sophistical talk will not affect me. All that logic is faulty.

It doesn't NEED to affect you, it just needs to get my point across, which I apparently failed at. I apologize for the inconvenience.

If my logic is faulty, please, point out how it's faulty clearly and precisely, rather than countering my point on my own grounds.

Quote from bully_jesus

I think its funny how some people think that the world would be more peacefull wihtout humans. Nature is just one big fat never ending war. Don't give me this hippy gaia theory harmony BS.

Trees and plants fight each other for sunlight and nutriants.
Animals fight for food, the weakest die.
Animals fight each other to determine who gets to mate, the weaker don't have children.
Animals sometimes kill the children of rival males.
Animals and plants, given the chance, will multipy and multiply untill they completly screw a eco system and then their populations collapses.

All in all, i would consider us nicer.

Not really. See, the thing is, animals normally do NOT screw up their ecosystems. We did that. Given the chance? Of course. That's why it's an ecosystem, because of checks and balances and such.

After all, animals never engaged in genocide solely for genocide. They don't kill for the sake of killing.

I don't think it's that humans suck, tho, just that we're going about it wrong. It's not as though humans haven't been able to coexist with nature peacefully in the past.

Uh. Animals screw up their ecosystems all the time (I mean it's always changing naturally, isn't it? Like the world wasn't the melting pot of dangerous gases that it was some several thousand years ago.) and the reason we don't see it as screwing up, as opposed to evolving or adapting, is because it seems more natural than us bulldozing and cementing the field to make a parking lot.
And some animals do kill for the sake of killing (or fun), especially animals who have a slightly more developed brains. An example is killer whales (uhh but I don't think that's why they're called "killer").
But you don't have to believe me. I'm not a biology major or anything.

Regarding morality, I think the idea where morality depends on oneself presents a real problem, since everyone has different standards for "morality." For those who believe that morality depends on God, I have a question: God is considered to be all-good. So is God being good, or is God good because He defines the standard for good? If you answered the first, who judged God to be good?

[img]http://dragcave.net/image/GKln.gif[/img]

Morality is silly. It's just a word coined so that people can tell others how to act. No one ever sat down and thought "I am going to define my own morals" it is always a religious institution, gov't institution, or educational institution that trains people to behave and think in a certain way. People, when given the chance will always choose what is most convenient for them. Even when thinking "morally" people weigh consequences to an action higher than the morality of the action.

Morality is bogus.

Life is tough......but it's tougher if you're stupid.
[img]http://img.userbars.pl/69/13603.gif[/img]

considering the fact that i believe that humans created god, i also believe humans created morality. so if u ask if morality came from above-HELL NO.
morality changes from person to person, and each persons dedication to morality is also different and depends on the situation.

for example: once a female friend of a really really REALLY hot guy in my class saw my english project, and decided that she likes it. then during class she "asks" me through another extremely hot guy:"masha, i didnt do the project, so let me share yours". the extremely hot guy is waiting for an answer, and the devil manipulating him grins from behind his back. also, i have a huge crush on her friend. answer :"SURE ADI, U CAN WRITE YOUR NAME ON MY PROJECT."
so here i am, the girl who has territoty issues against other females, agree to share the project i wasted 5 hours on researching and making the day before, even tho all my "morals" scream "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!".
morality is an illusion to justify ourselves, and it vanishes the second a tall, blond, blue eyed guy who looks like the combination of brad pitt and benjamin rohas appear.

the best security guard, EVER.

So sorry for the short and long. But to me the thing of morality is the line between learnt/reactive behavour.

You learn much of your moral belifes form those around you. When you feel them going, it is
A) your growth as an 'adult' human
B) changes in envrioment
C) the mind stick used to measure 'this morality' may or may not changed
D) it is outside the confined 'morals' that govern your 'system'
The pointa above could go on and on. To talk about an issue as this without e.g.'s is verry hard.

moritana
There are differences in one's mark on the board that make it hard just get a starting point to shot from. considering the fact that i believe that humans created god, i also believe humans created morality. so if u ask if morality came from above-HELL NO.
morality changes from person to person, and each persons dedication to morality is also different and depends on the situation.

for example: once a female friend of a really really REALLY hot guy in my class saw my english project, and decided that she likes it. then during class she "asks" me through another extremely hot guy:"masha, i didnt do the project, so let me share yours". the extremely hot guy is waiting for an answer, and the devil manipulating him grins from behind his back. also, i have a huge crush on her friend. answer :"SURE ADI, U CAN WRITE YOUR NAME ON MY PROJECT."
so here i am, the girl who has territoty issues against other females, agree to share the project i wasted 5 hours on researching and making the day before, even tho all my "morals" scream "NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!".
morality is an illusion to justify ourselves, and it vanishes the second a tall, blond, blue eyed guy who looks like the combination of brad pitt and benjamin rohas appear.

As for this one it is more like bullying than a moral one, unless you did all that and didn't get meat for it. Then your up against a wall and then it is up to you and all you have learnt to that point to deal with it. 😃

love and peace

Good/Evil are for the morally weak. There is no standard, ergo it does not exist.

Its easy to label things that you dont understand as good and evil. But if anyone had the time to think aboou it, everything is not good and evil, in fact they are made up by the same fools who decide that everyone is either "with us or against us".

Quote from Loli

Good/Evil are for the morally weak. There is no standard, ergo it does not exist.

Its easy to label things that you don't understand as good and evil. But if anyone had the time to think about it, everything is not good and evil, in fact they are made up by the same fools who decide that everyone is either "with us or against us".

So you wouldn't mind if someone kills everything you love and then eats them? Morality is not a Godly concept, it is a human concept of acceptable behaviors. The rules guide people through their life. They prevent us from making mistakes. Without morality, hell, you could just go on the street and start to r@pe everyone you see.

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]

Quote from ares6

Quote from Loli

Good/Evil are for the morally weak. There is no standard, ergo it does not exist.

Its easy to label things that you don't understand as good and evil. But if anyone had the time to think about it, everything is not good and evil, in fact they are made up by the same fools who decide that everyone is either "with us or against us".

So you wouldn't mind if someone kills everything you love and then eats them? Morality is not a Godly concept, it is a human concept of acceptable behaviors. The rules guide people through their life. They prevent us from making mistakes. Without morality, hell, you could just go on the street and start to r@pe everyone you see.

Don't twist my words. Good and evil does not exist.

Morality is not a Godly concept, it is a human concept of acceptable behaviors.

Have you heard of stigma?

Morality is not a Godly concept, it is a human concept of acceptable behaviors.

Have you heard of stigma?

Thought that was a Movie. WTH

love and peace

Quote from Loli

Quote from ares6

Quote from Loli

Good/Evil are for the morally weak. There is no standard, ergo it does not exist.

Its easy to label things that you don't understand as good and evil. But if anyone had the time to think about it, everything is not good and evil, in fact they are made up by the same fools who decide that everyone is either "with us or against us".

So you wouldn't mind if someone kills everything you love and then eats them? Morality is not a Godly concept, it is a human concept of acceptable behaviors. The rules guide people through their life. They prevent us from making mistakes. Without morality, hell, you could just go on the street and start to r@pe everyone you see.

Don't twist my words. Good and evil does not exist.

Morality is not a Godly concept, it is a human concept of acceptable behaviors.

Have you heard of stigma?

No one twists your word. You're conclusions are faulty in logic. If you say there is no Good or Evil. Then you are implying that there is no morality. Therefore, that, means I can do whatever the hell I want. That's according to you that is. Morality and the standard of Good and Evil are linked directly. We, human, say a firefighter is good because he risks his own life to save someone else. Yes, that's his job, but to actually choose this job, part of it may be morality. Perhaps he feels he should help others in need. Of course, we group this firefighter as Good. We call him a modern day hero.

Of course, then there's a concept of the end justifies the mean. Or perhaps sacrificing the few for the many. People do do things like this are considered controversial characters by historians. Some people call them good, others call the Evil.

I wish Ed was here. But he's just.....I don't know....not here.....too busy in Brazil?

[color=green]Life, what would it be without so much wrongs and rights?
[/color]

[color=red]Star Trek XI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZiR-NETDr0[/color]