Hi,

I deliberately ask this question in the Shoujo/Josei area because I don't want to talk about action comics and stuff but mainly about romance comics.

I'm reading mangas now since a few years and rather frequently when I'm reading Shoujo/Josei I happen to see male characters who are acting I would say forcibly towards females. That ranges from innocent stuff like forced kisses to serious (crimes) like rape and/or beating (e.g. Haou Airen). If you like you could also count in "mental cruelty" (e.g. treating the girl like crap).

Now, here's what I don't get. Somehow such things are always being downplayed. It's always like "Oh my, sometimes he's such an ass, but he also has his good sides...". And one get's the idea if your girl truly loves you, she forgives everything.

Can someone explain me why that's the case? Besides selling more books and keeping the story plain and simple.
Because somehow when I read this stories and I wouldn't know about the real world I would get the idea that I can treat my girl how I like it and she will still love me and never leave.

That sounds incredibly wrong to me...

Love is irrational
and so are people in love
if not already like that before love.
And of course, market economy.

I notice this as well and I now avoid those kind of series. I only hear lame excuses for jerk characters like Hakuron. Common responses are "he had a sad past" or "he never had love." If the guy looked like Shrek no one would defend them. It just irks me how these type of characters manage to gain fans and sympathy. Its even worse if theres a nice guy type character and then instead he gets hated on for simply liking the girl.

There's an old thread for you: Rape in smut

If you want to talk about shounen and seinen manga, here: Manga with sexist themes

It's called fantasy. Some M women just have that as long as it's done by "handsome" bishie (IMO usually the art is extremely bad). 🤣 :shrug:

Love is irrational
and so are people in love
if not already like that before love.

I'm sorry, but for me that sounds like a lame excuse. You can't explain everything with love. And in addition, I really don't think you can speak of love anymore when the partner thinks "Well she doesn't like me anymore, therefore I'll destroy her, so noone else is interested in her beside me".

If the guy looked like Shrek no one would defend them

That's it. In all the stories with rapists I've read, the rapist is always really ugly. Now I'm wondering what would be if the rapist is some of this "handsome bishies" - who are actually always looking the same. I'm sure someone like this would get a huge following and some would even say "I wouldn't mind, if it was him..."

Somehow I get the impression, if you are looking handsome, you get away with everything.

Well there is a reson behind the fact of rapist being ugly.

Since the first experince of aperson is quite immportant, it is not easy to develp a love relationship when u are ugly.

Thefore those who have a hard time to get it are those who have problems with developing relationship, and to get it they rape, thats proboly the reason wy it is more common in mangas with a ugly rapeist (not that i know if there is a manga with a good looking one though)

(sry, this was just a comment on Bloodkite's post, not realy to the topic)

If you want to succeed
Then you don't need Good Luck
You need the ability to overcome Bad Luck

Happines and Light needs a source to exist
Hatred fuels itself and Darkness exist where there is no Light

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This is so unrealistic and annoying. Real rapists won't rape because they "love" or make the girl fall in love with them. They will just rape and go (or murder).

Real good-looking perfect guys don't have to rape to get sex. Instead, they will probably be raped by horny women. 🤣

I somewhat agree with the sexual repression theory on women mentioned in the rape in smut thread. Women are traditionally supposed to be sexually submissive. If the heroine is forcefully molested by numerous good-looking bishies (and gets laid this way), she can get away without being thought of as "promiscuous" or something. Remember internal sexism does exist. The readers are mainly girls, so if a heroine is sexually active, they will probably judge and dislike her, or be jealous of her?

Quote from Bloodkite

Love is irrational
and so are people in love
if not already like that before love.

I'm sorry, but for me that sounds like a lame excuse. You can't explain everything with love. And in addition, I really don't think you can speak of love anymore when the partner thinks "Well she doesn't like me anymore, therefore I'll destroy her, so noone else is interested in her beside me".

Why not?
Just because it does not meet with your
ideals and isms does not mean it is not valid.

The readers are mainly girls, so if a heroine is sexually active, they will probably judge and dislike her, or be jealous of her?

Anyways, I do strongly hope that there are no such girls who are jealous of the heroine being raped, be it by a bishie or not. Otherwise in my opinion there is something wrong with them.

Why not?
Just because it does not meet with your
ideals and isms does not mean it is not valid.

That may be. My personal understanding of love is something that in general should benefit both partners. I know that love can sometimes be cruel too, therefore there are exceptions. But at some point you have to draw a line. I strongly refuse to take raping/beating as expressions of love. Or would someone of you accept that a husband who is an alcoholic beats his wife nearly to death and she doesn't sue him because she loves him so much?

Quote from Bloodkite

Why not?
Just because it does not meet with your
ideals and isms does not mean it is not valid.

That may be. My personal understanding of love is something that in general should benefit both partners. I know that love can sometimes be cruel too, therefore there are exceptions. But at some point you have to draw a line. I strongly refuse to take raping/beating as expressions of love. Or would someone of you accept that a husband who is an alcoholic beats his wife nearly to death and she doesn't sue him because she loves him so much?

That is her choice and she has made it after weighing
the scales.
She might be unreasonable, but she is in love with him.
In an unreasonable love, that is.

As love is – unreasonable.

Does that mean, you wouldn't interfere in that kind of situation?

Quote from Bloodkite

Does that mean, you wouldn't interfere in that kind of situation?

That is none of my business.
Bad choices are bad choices, but choices
nevertheless. If she does not want to walk
away from it, then there's no need to force
her either, just because they are acting against
our morals.

If she does not want to walk away from it, then there's no need to force her either, just because they are acting against our morals.

Slightly OT, but just about every study on domestic abuse basically boils down to nobody really wants to be in an abusive relationship, even the people who stay in them. Those people stay because of manipulation (lots of manipulation), bad childhoods, bad relationships, psychological disorders, financial considerations, cultural ones, etc.- not 'cause they truly believe that they want to. Consistently one of the best ways to get people out of abusive relationships is to shower support on them to leave said relationship and offer them help getting out.

As love is – unreasonable.

Even unreasonable love should be of the healthy type, and abusive relationships just don't have the mutual respect and trust implicit in healthy relationships.

This diverges back into the topic-the pseudo-abusive stuff in a lot of manga is far more dramatic than any of the healthy stuff (most of the mangas with healthy 'ships take their time with character/relationship development, so the couple dynamics are very different and there's usually less smut 'cause it's far easier to write the jerk pushing a girl up against a wall and running with it then to have the nice guy do the same) and feed into all the rebel bad boy romantic hero archetypes and have that forbidden aspect and are therefore very attractive in a soap opera way.

I've read shojos were the main male character has been really nice to the main girl. But there are alot were the main guy is kind of mentally and sexually cruel to the main girl.
In real life there are a lot of guys/men that think it's okay to be sexually inappropriate. A lot of men thinks it's sexy and a way to get in a girls pants and I've noticed that alot of good looking guys will do this because they know they'll most likely get away with it.
I've also had good friends that have been in relationships where the guy is controlling and says little mean comments like "Why are you always so stupid?" or "Your boobs are to small". But she wouldn't leave the guy because for some strange reason she loved him and the thought of leaving doesn't make since.
So I think a lot of girls/women relate because most relationships are not text book prefect.

Quote from Mamsmilk

As love is – unreasonable.

Maybe so, but if you factor in beating or hurting someone you love, that's just plain violence. I wouldn't consider such thing unreasonable, unreasonable should only be associated with kids, they can be as unreasonable as they want, of course with a certain limitation.

Quote from Mamsmilk

That is none of my business.
Bad choices are bad choices, but choices
nevertheless. If she does not want to walk
away from it, then there's no need to force
her either, just because they are acting against
our morals.

If someone made a bad choice, as a family member or friend aren't you suppose to tell them it's wrong. Sure they might not wanna listen to you, but when people close to you were treated that way, i'm sure you would at least do the same thing.

You like the things that i HATE, and i HATE the things that you like