is it really okay for the west to get involved with Libya. It's true what ever happen in libya will affect everyone of us. as much as i agree with the humanitarian aspect of the campaign. the fact of the matter is gadaffi is unpreditable and getting invovled could very well make things worse at the same time not doing anything is probably just as bad. one thing is for sure the western world doesn't exactly have and impressive track recored in Africa or the middleast when armies are invovlved.

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Well, war, on any scale, is bad. No matter what, people die - civillians and millitary personnel. So you can't honestly say that the step the western nations took was a good one. On the other hand, the situation in Libya was very bad - it would have turned into a bloodbath on Gaddafi's orders. The rebels and the loyalists would have fought a bloody battle - Gaddafi said "we will fight to the last man". So, I suppose you can say that this way, the number of deaths will be limited.

The step the western nations took was not a good one, and the situation could have possibly been handled in a better way, but if it saves lives, I will not say it's a bad step.

For the record, I'm a pacifist 🙂

There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.

Well after firing about 120 missiles that cost a little over 500K each, it might be handed over to France and the UK so unless the oil gets damaged i wouldn't really mind how they do things since warring is pretty much all that's been going on recently. Sounds like a better idea to just buy one of those electric cars or just ride a bike until the gas and oil prices come back down.

I would never support war. But wars just happen. If this was ideal world there wouldn't be any. But what really pisses me of is USA and it's puppets always getting involved. That to say, whenever the oil is in question. They don't care about human lives, believe me. The wars in Africa are pretty frequent. And yeah, they're all bloody and numerous people lose their lives every day. But you don't see foreign intervention in Liberia, Niger, Sierra Leone or any of the others. Because those countries are poor it's okay to let them resolve their internal affairs themselves, but when it comes to countries like Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya same rule doesn't apply. Go figure that one out. >:-(

USA always uses the same excuse of violation of human rights to get what they want for themselves. If we go back there's an example of Panama which was created after that territory, which was strategically important, was taken from Columbia. And Qatar? Same thing. My country was unfortunate to experience this foreign "help" first hand. Wouldn't wish to anyone.

Quote from coa88

I would never support war. But wars just happen. If this was ideal world there wouldn't be any. But what really pisses me of is USA and it's puppets always getting involved. That to say, whenever the oil is in question. They don't care about human lives, believe me. The wars in Africa are pretty frequent. And yeah, they're all bloody and numerous people lose their lives every day. But you don't see foreign intervention in Liberia, Niger, Sierra Leone or any of the others. Because those countries are poor it's okay to let them resolve their internal affairs themselves, but when it comes to countries like Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya same rule doesn't apply. Go figure that one out. >:-(

USA always uses the same excuse of violation of human rights to get what they want for themselves. If we go back there's an example of Panama which was created after that territory, which was strategically important, was taken from Columbia. And Qatar? Same thing. My country was unfortunate to experience this foreign "help" first hand. Wouldn't wish to anyone.

but the thing is no country will help out another country unless they will benefit from helping that country

"when i'm sad, i stop being sad and be awesome instead."

• Barney Stinson

Yes, the US is pretty materialistic, but what else can you expect? If they cared so much about lives, they would be focusing on Pakistan and Yemen too. It seems that only guys with view like that make it to the top tier of governments, and the good guys get stuck behind.
Basically, look at the half-full side of the glass. It's not like we can honestly go and teach some sense to those guys 😛

There are times when you will miss what you never had. I wonder how you will find what you so desperately need.

Quote from coa88

I would never support war. But wars just happen. If this was ideal world there wouldn't be any. But what really pisses me of is USA and it's puppets always getting involved. That to say, whenever the oil is in question. They don't care about human lives, believe me. The wars in Africa are pretty frequent. And yeah, they're all bloody and numerous people lose their lives every day. But you don't see foreign intervention in Liberia, Niger, Sierra Leone or any of the others. Because those countries are poor it's okay to let them resolve their internal affairs themselves, but when it comes to countries like Afghanistan, Iraq or Libya same rule doesn't apply. Go figure that one out. >:-(

USA always uses the same excuse of violation of human rights to get what they want for themselves. If we go back there's an example of Panama which was created after that territory, which was strategically important, was taken from Columbia. And Qatar? Same thing. My country was unfortunate to experience this foreign "help" first hand. Wouldn't wish to anyone.

Libya would have traded oil even if they hadnt intervened, if anything they risked their oil supply. by helping the rebels and angering ghaddaffi
btw i think what the u.n. did was perfect for the situation and its mostly thanks to france and britian not the u.s.

I have to simplify things a bit to be able to express my opinion. For me it's a matter of; should the western countries intervene - or not?

I personally think that it is high time for the intervention (I think there should have been taken action a lot earlier, actually). Many civilian people have been shot down by their own government for no good reason. The things happening there are horrible, but it's also a very delicate thing for the western world to step in now. Right now, though, I don't care about hidden agendas, and I doubt the civilians in Libya do either. It's all about stopping the massacre atm.

Quote from Oriolidae

I have to simplify things a bit to be able to express my opinion. For me it's a matter of; should the western countries intervene - or not?

I personally think that it is high time for the intervention (I think there should have been taken action a lot earlier, actually). Many civilian people have been shot down by their own government for no good reason. The things happening there are horrible, but it's also a very delicate thing for the western world to step in now. Right now, though, I don't care about hidden agendas, and I doubt the civilians in Libya do either. It's all about stopping the massacre atm.

Oh, sure. It's like: Let us kill them so they would stop killing each other. Seriously, your look on things is way too naive. You take too much faith in media. The truth is, there is a civil war going around there and, like in any war civilians became targets. That is regrettable, but that's just the way wars are. If there is an armed rebellion in a country, that countries government must react. In all wars crime are committed, and civil wars are especially bloody in that aspect. But the problem here is that the west is openly siding with the rebels for their own benefits. They want to establish their puppet regime there, like they did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Quote from mangacraze

Libya would have traded oil even if they hadnt intervened, if anything they risked their oil supply. by helping the rebels and angering ghaddaffi
btw i think what the u.n. did was perfect for the situation and its mostly thanks to france and britian not the u.s.

What Would Have Happened Without Interference

Human(Libya) infected with Resident Evil 4 Parasyte(Kadhafi) ---> The parasyte can't kill the body since it needs it ---> Electric Chair(Rebels) ---> The Kadhafi Parasyte dies ---> The Human is free (Other Historical events to prove that)

What They Want You To Think Is Happening

Human(Libya) ---> Infected by bacteria(Kadhafi) ---> Injection of Medicine(US+puppets) ---> As any medicine It has it's countereffects, but as any medicine it heals the body (Yay! Free Libya, American Government is such a badass antibody !11!!1!one! It feeds on Oil but we will let it live inside us!!1!1!11)

What Is Happening

Human(Kadhafi + Libia) ----> Infected by HIV(Rebels) ----> Opportunistic infection(US+puppets) ----> Human dies ---> The corpse is raped.

I was making a bigger post but I didn't think it worth the time, so I made an explanation any kid can understand.

Quote from coa88

Quote from Oriolidae

I have to simplify things a bit to be able to express my opinion. For me it's a matter of; should the western countries intervene - or not?

I personally think that it is high time for the intervention (I think there should have been taken action a lot earlier, actually). Many civilian people have been shot down by their own government for no good reason. The things happening there are horrible, but it's also a very delicate thing for the western world to step in now. Right now, though, I don't care about hidden agendas, and I doubt the civilians in Libya do either. It's all about stopping the massacre atm.

Oh, sure. It's like: Let us kill them so they would stop killing each other. Seriously, your look on things is way too naive. You take too much faith in media. The truth is, there is a civil war going around there and, like in any war civilians became targets. That is regrettable, but that's just the way wars are. If there is an armed rebellion in a country, that countries government must react. In all wars crime are committed, and civil wars are especially bloody in that aspect. But the problem here is that the west is openly siding with the rebels for their own benefits. They want to establish their puppet regime there, like they did in Afghanistan and Iraq.

I'm very sorry for being naive, but it doesn't change my opinion on if there should have been an intervention or not. Just because this is my opinion, it doesn't mean that I've been brainwashed by the mass media, thank you. I KNOW there might be hidden agendas, but I don't want the world to idly watch at the sidelines while Gaddafi's using a (partly rented) army to march down civilians. He obviously doesn't have the support of his people.

Can someone point me to some hard evidence of Gaddafi ordering the massacre of civilians? I don't trust the media since it mostly spouts half-truths/exaggerates or outright lies. I've also heard that the rebels were using civilians as shields. 😕

Quote from atat23

Can someone point me to some hard evidence of Gaddafi ordering the massacre of civilians? I don't trust the media since it mostly spouts half-truths/exaggerates or outright lies. I've also heard that the rebels were using civilians as shields. 😕

Well here's a page of stuff.....link (WARNING: THESE ARE REALLY GRAPHIC)

[img]http://i.imgur.com/OkzQ4.png[/img]

Quote from daisukidesuyo

Quote from atat23

Can someone point me to some hard evidence of Gaddafi ordering the massacre of civilians? I don't trust the media since it mostly spouts half-truths/exaggerates or outright lies. I've also heard that the rebels were using civilians as shields. 😕

Well here's a page of stuff.....link (WARNING: THESE ARE REALLY GRAPHIC)

Thanks.

Anyhow once and if the rebellion is sucessful....(which seems highly likely with all the foreign intervention) I just hope the next government won't be too heavily influenced by foreign powers as it could lead to exploitation of the people/oil/etc. and then possibly the people could be worse off than before. 😐

On intervention: The United Nations charter, if we're just talking from a legal standpoint, permits interventions from member states in cases where a leader is ruling illegitimately (it's a lot more complex than that, but the legitimacy of a regime is a clear factor in UN action), so the intervention should at least be legal this time on the security council's terms (since general assembly votes mean absolutely nothing with permanent veto powers in place). So technically I guess it would qualify as a humanitarian intervention.

Oil makes this messier. It isn't a case like Rwanda or the Balkans where the UN will just screw up and then leave the problem to fester while it sorts itself out (seriously,what idiot came up with the idea of trying to hold territory with nothing but air strikes? It doesn't work. At all.) Everyone will probably want their fingers in the pot for the near future, so Libya will probably be worse off than, say, Bahrain in the long run.

That said, Afghanistan and Iraq may end up looking different from Libya depending on the next few weeks and how much of the intervention is UN authorized. Or, rather, it's predictable based on that. Obeying international law might be a sign that things can clear up sooner. Though that won't happen.

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