Quote from RS456

Technically they are not earning money off the manga.

Uh yes they are. Have you seen their OtakuShop store? They sell cheap unlicensed fake anime/manga good made from factories in China.

They compiled several manga in one site so it is easier to access which they are providing freely for visitors to read. Which means they are not earning from manga if they were, they would be more like crunchyroll.

Despite what many may say about Crunchyroll, at least they do license and have the official rights to be hosting the anime there , which I can't say the same about MangaFox.

They are also giving credit to the groups that scanlated and I don't think any group wants more than their group name displayed because if it so happens mangafox goes down then groups that displayed their info on mangafox will go along with it.

The thing is, **they aren't crediting scanlators, and take credit for their own work. **Read this.
They also censor other scanlator's and website names in the forums, and try to erase scanlator's watermarks from their very own scans before uploading.
Not to mention, they have closed down the Scanlator's part of the forum there now so they can't even talk about it anymore.

And no, that is NOT what everybody wants. Especially when people start thinking MangaFox/MangaHere is the one scanlating all the manga (and sadly enough, there are people who actually do believe that), people stop visiting the original Scanlator's site. As a result, Scanlator's aren't aware if people are interested in the series, which may end up Scanlators dropping series due to lack of help and interest.

Regarding the delay that should be upto the groups to decide. They should do what some groups are doing assigning a person to upload the manga and notify mangafox that only this person is allowed to upload their releases.

They were already doing that until MangaFox decided to suddenly closed down the Scanlator's forum. In addition, they have stripped all the powers from the people who were actually trying to honor those request and delays. Oh, and did I also remember to mention that MangaHere also has a bot purposely made to steal scans directly from other online readers (like Batato)?

And yes, before anyone ask how this is related to the group Dragon&Fly Scans (whose quality of work is pretty much stolen Chinese scans raws and poor amateur translations, but then again that's another story), the group is run by the member 'davidhan' who is also the same person who runs the site MangaHere.

Overall, do your research first and lurk moar before posting next time.

Wow, I stopped checking out the forums for the last two days to see what used to be an obscure thread expand another 2 pages. XD

I don't read Dragon & Fly nor do I have any plans to. I'm quite satisfied with the pacing and quality of the "other" groups. You could probably just imagine how I felt when Red Hawk dropped Cage of Eden (thank you, thank you, Death Toll! Just had to say it).

I did have a run-in with their work when as a release moderator I had to verify one of their Bleach releases. Boy was I surprised to find out that the reported release only had 3 or 4 pages uploaded to their reader. After the last uploaded page you would get redirected to a page saying that the next page was "still being translated" (no sh*t). It took about an hour for the entire chapter to be uploaded. I don't want to speculate but I can only imagine the number of clicks and page refreshes they got that time. Fortunately I haven't seen them report another incomplete release.

I have to agree with ChaosKitty on this one: unfortunately speed is still king in this hobby and you can see this not only in scanlation but also fansubbing. While there are some enlightened fans who choose quality (I can vividly recall waiting for Frostii's K-ON!! 27 for months), majority still go with the groups that release first.

And while it's nice to see a new group contributing to the hobby, I can't help but think that a new group releasing stuff already being done by another group as wasted effort. Scanlation etiquette aside (since that's a highly subjective issue and I'm not a scanlator anyways), there are tons of other titles that have yet to receive any love outside Japan; why not work on those? And I believe doing an obscure or dead series will help any upstart group a lot; it helps create a positive reception rather than a negative one caused by comparisons with active groups.

Quote from auriga

I did have a run-in with their work when as a release moderator I had to verify one of their Bleach releases. Boy was I surprised to find out that the reported release only had 3 or 4 pages uploaded to their reader. After the last uploaded page you would get redirected to a page saying that the next page was "still being translated" (no sh*t). It took about an hour for the entire chapter to be uploaded. I don't want to speculate but I can only imagine the number of clicks and page refreshes they got that time. Fortunately I haven't seen them report another incomplete release.

Wow, this. O__O It's hard to believe anyone in their right mind would want to submit a chapter while there are only 3-4 pages translated, and is still in the middle of being scanlated onto their online reader. That really says a lot about the quality or their work. Dx The only reason I could think why anyone would do this is just so their release could be near the top of the page here at MU. 🤢

Quote from tart

Uh yes they are. Have you seen their OtakuShop store? They sell cheap unlicensed fake anime/manga good made from factories in China.

... Do I really need to point that is still NOT making money (directly) from manga?

Despite what many may say about Crunchyroll, at least they do license and have the official rights to be hosting the anime there , which I can't say the same about MangaFox.

If you ignore the fact Crunchyroll started by streaming fansub series ... sure now they have streaming deals but it was there I marathoned "Legend of Galactic Heroes".

The thing is, **they aren't crediting scanlators, and take credit for their own work. **Read this.

No, serious ... stop.

Page series have entries for Chapter Name, Scanlator, Contributor and Date Added.
Sure you can go directly to the chapter by the homepage latest releases were neither Scanlator and Contributor have entries and yes, there is the occasional n/a as the Scanlator but I have never seen MangaFox taking credit for the chapters, in fact their watermark states "This image is hosted at MangaFox.com, we take no credit for the creation or editing of this image ... I would say they are pretty clear about it and in fact the chapter I picked up even had the group page as the first image.

They also censor other scanlator's and website names in the forums, and try to erase scanlator's watermarks from their very own scans before uploading.

Their forums, their rules also I would say some people were no saints.
I cannot say about watermarks because I have not witnessed but I certainly witnessed some behavior from certain people were their decision was fully justified.

Not to mention, they have closed down the Scanlator's part of the forum there now so they can't even talk about it anymore.

Oh you mean this?
http://forums.mangafox.com/forums/8770-Scanlator-s-General-Info

Odd, seems to be open ... Ah I am kinda joking, I know you are talking about the Scanlator Policy subforum but the moment they decided to ignore them, it became useless ... serious, do you think they would keep up that subforum after that for what exactly?

And no, that is NOT what everybody wants. Especially when people start thinking MangaFox/MangaHere is the one scanlating all the manga (and sadly enough, there are people who actually do believe that),

And I point to the watermark disclaimer I already mentioned and even if some people might mistaken think that despite the disclaimer at the bottom of every page (OK, sometimes it does not load in some pages) is MangaFox guilty of that?

people stop visiting the original Scanlator's site.

And? Any aggregator still will do exactly that ... not because people think MangaFox "did it" but because why would people navigate away to another site? Here we do not get the chapter and have to either go to a aggregator (and hope it have it) or go to the Scanlator to get it.

As a result, Scanlator's aren't aware if people are interested in the series, which may end up Scanlators dropping series due to lack of help and interest.

OH REALLY?

If ANY scanlator is doing a series for the popularity of the series they doing it for GRATIFICATION, either monetary one or ego-stroking.

And I never seen a scanlator EVER saying that are doing it because its popular and that lead us to another point, if they are doing it because "people are interested in the series" WHY ON EARTH WOULD THEY PISS ALL OVER THE ARTWORK WITH WATERMARKS! I dropped series BECAUSE of that.

They were already doing that until MangaFox decided to suddenly closed down the Scanlator's forum. In addition, they have stripped all the powers from the people who were actually trying to honor those request and delays. Oh, and did I also remember to mention that MangaHere also has a bot purposely made to steal scans directly from other online readers (like Batato)?

I would say their decision to ignore delays was caused by the fact some groups had a policy that was not in MangaFox interest, like 48 delays for online readers and due to MangaFox many times ignoring the delay several groups altered their policy so MangaFox could only upload the series much later (I think one group even put it at one week).

Not to mention some groups had a "do not upload" policy to either certain series or all their releases.

At one point they must had decided it would better for them to just ignore group policies and then closed the now useless Scanlator Policy subforum.

I am being fair hare, I understand why groups had certain policies (I mean, if you are working on a licensed series you usually want to keep it down) but I also understand why MangaFox simply decided to ignore it.

After all lets not pretend MangaFox was doing to "disrespect people to make money", they were not the only online reader and MangaReader pretty much does the same as they do and I would say that their decision was caused more out of the notion if they "played by the rules" they would lose out to sites that would ignore the rules.

And yes, before anyone ask how this is related to the group Dragon&Fly Scans (whose quality of work is pretty much stolen Chinese scans raws and poor amateur translations, but then again that's another story), the group is run by the member 'davidhan' who is also the same
person who runs the site MangaHere.

I think you are mistaking this, I believe the ones that are arguing against you are not not doing it because they believe "MangaFox is right" but because Dragon&Fly Scans as a group have every right to exist, no matter how bad they are or how connected they are to Noez.

Also I have to say this, I laud the stand this site have taken to be impartial and just report releases, even if MangaFox decides to publish releases under its own name, they SHOULD be tracked.

What you are really asking is for Baka-Updates taking a stand against MangaFox and so to everyone connected to it and here is the thing ... you know the series "Oniichan no Koto Nanka Zenzen Suki ja Nai n da kara ne"? Nirpan actually POSTS mediafire links on MangaFox forums AND also uploads the chapters to their online reader.

So are you going to complain about Nirpan as well? After all I never seen anyone having a problem with him and until now he seem fine with MangaFox since looking at the credits page he is a one-man-group.

Overall, do your research first and lurk moar before posting next time.

Right back at you.

What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

Really Drakron
really?
do you actually believe what you are saying or are you just trying to get anger out of people
someone lock this thread

Quote from thegabriel

Really Drakron
really?

Yes, really.
People have a axe to grind and as I can respect that, I do take offense to trying to drag everyone else along with it.

This is not the same situation as Tazmo that actually taken releases, uploaded into a membership-only sites and removed the credits page in order to pass then out as theirs.

In the end not all groups have a issue with Noez and even if you can say disrespecting group policies is wrong this is not really a issue to be handled besides the group and the ones violating their policies, not us and we should not be dragged into it.

Also the matter of Dragon & Fly Scans that is the topic is if they should be singled out but that opens a Pandora Box, if we single then out despite they operate as a group for whatever reasons then should not those rules be applied to others?

If the quality is bad then should releases that do not meet to a certain quality standard be removed from the release database? should be groups that operate along or with online readers also not be tracked?

This is my "really" if you do not understand, if you single out one group then you set rules to what releases should be on the database and that affects every single group and release from that point on.

do you actually believe what you are saying

I am more that willing to play the devils advocate even when I think they are wrong if there is a larger issue, to me if we start to single out everything related to MangaFox then we are doing harm to more that just Dragon & Fly Scans.

Also excuse me for not picking up the pitchfork and joining the angry mob, I am simply not picking side because to me neither are right.

or are you just trying to get anger out of people

As I said, my issue is the reaching effects of what people apparently are trying to start up ... in essence, a change of the rules to what releases and groups can be added to the database.

someone lock this thread

Maybe they should, all MangaFox treads apparently end up being locked but I do say ... that is also a indication people should not steer into "MangaFox is the devil" arguments since there is no consensus over it, unlike what happened with Tazmo.

What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

Quote from Drakron

If the quality is bad then should releases that do not meet to a certain quality standard be removed from the release database? should be groups that operate along or with online readers also not be tracked?

First, MU does not discriminate against scanlators that work with online readers. As long as they use their own scanlated work their releases can be added to the database.

Second, with regards their quality... is it really the only issue? My beef with Dragon & Fly is the redundancy of their work. What do they stand to gain by releasing stuff other groups are already releasing at a steady pace (and not to mention in better quality)? Why not work on other series that have yet to see the light of day overseas? And it's not just Dragon & Fly; check out MangaFirst, among others. Don't get me wrong, though; I'm not saying that redundancy is bad nor am I saying that scanlators should have a monopoly over their series.

...But it doesn't stop there. Also of question is Dragon & Fly's "aggressiveness." Aside from their quality, their releases tend to be inconsistent and skip chapters. Are they really serious about what they are doing? Do they really want to scanlate for fans or do they simply want to be "first?" As I mentioned earlier I'm not a scanlator, but I don't need to be one to seriously doubt their work ethic.

So yeah... taking series choice, quality and work ethic into consideration and at the same time leaving the MangaFox/MangaHere angle out of the picture (and I emphasize this for those who still can't get it) I still will not see Dragon & Fly and similar groups in a favorable light.

Quote from Drakron

If the quality is bad then should releases that do not meet to a certain quality standard be removed from the release database?

MU already blocks joke releases on April 1st. You don't even need to be a translator to know that D&F's "translations" are of troll quality. Every day is April Fool's Day for their readers.

And no, I don't really care that it's M-Fox et al. backing D&F. Should MU track down every group that releases garbage? No, that'd be too time-consuming. But something right in front of our eyes? I don't see why not.

Oh, for the record, I translate Ratman, which was added to D&F's lineup a few weeks back, blah blah yadda yadda interpret as you wish.

tldr I don't care about people dumb enough to read crap releases, but it'd be nice if that eyesore of a group would be dropped from the MU radar.

Quote from wolfinthesheep

Two problems here:

1. If the real release has the same terrible watermark, no one will ever care about going to Batoto or the scanlator's site.
2. If the quality of the scan is a big enough problem, people will just stop reading it entirely.

If you're doing it just to spite people, then so be it, it's your choice to make. But if you're trying to drive people away from MangaFox, you're failing terribly.

Not if they poorly try to delete or blur it out. Let's say people did release non-watermarked chapters on Batoto, but watermarked on MF. MF would simply rip the chapters from Batoto.
I highly doubt people will drop a manga they enjoy because of a watermark. People usually give up when the scans are garbage everywhere and the translations suck. Otherwise, people will suffer through the watermarks. If not, oh well. It's not like the scanlators are being paid.
You act as if being spitful or running people away from MF are the only possibilities. Ever think watermarks are there so readers know scanlators exist with sites of their own? 🙄 A lot of online readers (including those owned by MF's parent company NOEZ) will delete credit pages. If some unknowing leecher only know that site, they think that's the site that translates it, as seen on MangaHere comments where people bitch to them about slow releases. Now they have more reason to believe they do everything.

Either way, I agree with eriochrome about taking that group off of their radar. They get their releases out fine w/out MU. Only if... only if... 😔

-No longer do I quote great scholars, the famous, etc. Kids feigning wisdom ruined it.
--I wont type a post like a college report. If you don't read it just for that reason, you don't have to post why your hoity-toity ass refused to. I swear, so many people on this site are so full of themselves. A lot seem to think they always have an "intelligent and/or logical" point or show signs of a superiority complex. They never admit they're wrong. Maybe partially, but excuses abound! :\
-Stop mailing me about my comments. I don't read them.
/sigrant

Quote from Chaoskitty

Quote from wolfinthesheep

Quote from ForteAtrox

o_o.... What? I'm saying that fans will still read D&F scans stuff because they care more about having more chapters fast over good quality of work (D&F case, translations/grammar). I'm not talking about readers there.

And I'm saying this is a terribly naive point of view, because D&F scans is hated by everyone because the quality is so bad, including the fans on MangaFox.

Wrong. Don't make uneducated remarks when you don't have all the info. D&F stole a project from my group, uploaded it with abysmal quality. THEN when my group released the same chapter in HQ we didn't even get half the hits we normally do. (Now don't take this one sentence and pull that scanlators only care about hits out of it. That is not what I am saying, obviously) Sure fans are complaining, but doesn't mean they aren't reading it. You're the one with the naive point of view. Any scanlator will tell you that most fans will take speed over quality. Sadly, most fans do not have your mindset.

And that's the last comment I'm going to make on this idiotic conversation. Really people, do some research on what you are trying to debate. -__- There are already lots of threads about people complaining about mangafox, anywho. This is getting off topic and a mod is probably going to lock it soon.

Thank you~

... Do I really need to point that is still NOT making money (directly) from manga?

Ads still bring in cash, the store sell things from characters of the series which still entirely belong to the mangaka. And I hope you don't retaliate by saying it's fine since it's not from the manga itself, because it's not.

The thing is, **they aren't crediting scanlators, and take credit for their own work. **Read this.

No, serious ... stop.

Page series have entries for Chapter Name, Scanlator, Contributor and Date Added.
Sure you can go directly to the chapter by the homepage latest releases were neither Scanlator and Contributor have entries and yes, there is the occasional n/a as the Scanlator but I have never seen MangaFox taking credit for the chapters, in fact their watermark states "This image is hosted at MangaFox.com, we take no credit for the creation or editing of this image ... I would say they are pretty clear about it and in fact the chapter I picked up even had the group page as the first image.

Actually, this happened to us on a series we translate called Wonted. They took chapter 20 from us with on credit whatsoever directed towards us.

Yes but the question is how "unreadable", watermarks can make a release unreadable for some and readable to others.

I'm not talking about watermarks, I'm talking about the quality of the scans.

Well to start not many groups go back and release volume scans of their previous releases that used magazine scans, I know A-Team did it with Sekirei and Solaris-SVU does it with Umi no Misaki and /a/nonymous scanlations also does it with the releases I believe.

I dont think there is a standard of what is HQ, Scantily Clad only works with volume raws and /a/nonymous scanlations offers chapters in 2400p (that is way too big for me) even with Magazine scans as groups seem to follow their own idea of what is acceptable or not, that is fine with me even if I naturally prefer volume raws.

That is your opinion, I'm not sure if you're actually in scanlations or not though. HQ Scan groups like SC and those who use their own raws from the book know what HQ is, they have standards for it, where as fans just don't care enough.

And you are missing a bit of my point, if Dragon & Fly Scans are doing it for MangaFox and even if they are being paid for it, a release is still a release.

I think you're missing my point from what I just said. No duh a release is a release, but I was just stating how I felt emotionally about it and I really don't get why you bother replying to it.

know Pew Pew paid for translation scripts of Happy World! chapters because its was mentioned in their site, "over $150" and that was back in July 17, 2008.

I do not feel that right to single out a group because they are linked to a site and I happen to share your opinion, it should be nonprofit.

The only reason why this group was singled out was because it had an entire post about it. I'm sure they're reading this and laughing over it.

And I bring back the question of why Dragon & Fly Scans are being singled out.

Let me put this way, even if MangaFox followed on 1 week waiting period and put no watermarks but still ranked in the money due to their advertisement revenue people would still have a issue with it because they would be making money.

The problem people seem to have is not that Dragon & Fly Scans is a terrible bad group, is who is their sponsor happens to be.

And I repeat because they have an entire post about them! So why not speak your opinion of them?I also think people (mostly scanlators and people who know the drama with MF) dislike D&F scans because it is sponsored by MF.

@auriga, redundancy happens ... its not odd to see a series being worked with 2 or more groups.
As for inconsistent and skipping chapters ... happens too, Needless current have a big hole because when a group picked it decided to skip the part the anime covered and the same happened with Seto no Hanayome.

I do not question of you thinking the group sucks, I seen some horrible typeset chapters and even some translations I rather they dont (like translating from French scans)

And to answer @Eriochrome, yes BU does block April fools releases but not only that ... they also removed a certain release from a certain group were they added random pages from hentai series and recently they also removed a TWGOK release since the script used was taken from RHS spoiler section.

However that is covered in the FAQ, "The release was fake" and "The release contained stolen translations" and even if Dragon & Fly Scans is a terrible bad group with awful translations, they are still a legitimate effort, no matter how terrible it is.

What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

Quote from Drakron

@auriga, redundancy happens ... its not odd to see a series being worked with 2 or more groups.

Yes, I know. However:

1. It does not change the fact that it is a waste of effort. Unless you're talking about a joint between groups (clearly not the case) or the Mahou-X and Yankee Goon collaboration on Yankee-kun to Megane-chan.

2. Redundancy is good if the new group can offer something the "other" group can't. The only thing Dragon & Fly has going for it so far is its speed (and I'm not even sure if it's faster all the time). But even then the "other" groups are able to churn out releases regularly and within merely a day or two (if not minutes even) of Dragon & Fly's work, the speed benefit is pretty much negated. Add to that the fact that the regular releases are of much better quality... why even consider reading Dragon & Fly?

As for inconsistent and skipping chapters ... happens too, Needless current have a big hole because when a group picked it decided to skip the part the anime covered and the same happened with Seto no Hanayome.

Yes, but do the same reasons apply to the chapters Dragon & Fly skipped? Or have they shown any intention of going back to the chapters they skipped?

Let me bring up a example, Lazy Ass Scans and Clockwork Lies are both doing Kurogane and I dont really see a difference of each of their releases (granted I never really looked) ... I understand you prefer that groups did not picked on active projects but this very much up to the groups to decide, even if they dont bring anything new to the table its still their decision.

I understand your position but I also believe this is something up for the groups decide.

As for the skipping of chapters, I only said it happens ... I could have pointed out X-Blade is missing a chapter as the group apparently was not able to find the raws for it at the time, also I seen H releases starting at half of the series or have chapters released at seeming random order.

Groups should not be penalized for picking active series or skipping chapters, to start if we penalize groups for picking active series then the first issue was how "active" a project is, then the question is of the "offering" as how can we balance one release against another? what happen if the differences are so small they are just a matter of taste?

Now I am saying this only on the matter of releases tracked on BU ... if you have a archive site, well you can make your own rules and I am sure archive sites do have rules over series releases they keep but in BU, any legitimate release is a release and should be added to the database.

What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

SIGH...

Let me bring up a example, Lazy Ass Scans and Clockwork Lies are both doing Kurogane and I dont really see a difference of each of their releases (granted I never really looked) ... I understand you prefer that groups did not picked on active projects but this very much up to the groups to decide, even if they dont bring anything new to the table its still their decision.

I don't read Kurogane so I can't comment on that. And "granted I never really looked?" How do you know, then, the validity of your example? I will say this, though: both Clockwork Lies and Lazy Ass Scans scanlated the oneshot of Kurogane and released it... within 24 hours (same date on the database, in fact).

It is the prerogative of groups to choose what they want to scanlate; I can't do anything about that. No one can. But it still doesn't change the fact that two groups working on the same series (same chapters, not a joint project) is still a waste of resources.

As for the skipping of chapters, I only said it happens ... I could have pointed out X-Blade is missing a chapter as the group apparently was not able to find the raws for it at the time, also I seen H releases starting at half of the series or have chapters released at seeming random order.

YES, IT HAPPENS; I ALREADY AGREED TO THAT.

And hentai? Bad example. Most hentai tankobons are collections of unrelated oneshots. Are Dragon&Fly's series oneshots? I'd like to point out that they skipped chapters 465 and 467 of Bleach (of all the series you can skip, Bleach? And those 2 chapters were smack dab in the middle of the arc and not mere filler).

Groups should not be penalized for picking active series or skipping chapters, to start if we penalize groups for picking active series then the first issue was how "active" a project is, then the question is of the "offering" as how can we balance one release against another? what happen if the differences are so small they are just a matter of taste?

Now I am saying this only on the matter of releases tracked on BU ... if you have a archive site, well you can make your own rules and I am sure archive sites do have rules over series releases they keep but in BU, any legitimate release is a release and should be added to the database.

Thanks for putting things in my mouth. Did I ever say that we shouldn't allow their releases on MU? And I quote myself:

First, MU does not discriminate against scanlators that work with online readers. As long as they use their own scanlated work their releases can be added to the database.

So unless someone comes forward and claims Dragon&Fly is using licensed scans or is stealing something made by another group, it stays. I have personally approved quite a number of their releases (assuming no one else clicked on the "approve" button before I did), so I hope that's clear enough for you to understand.

Quote from Drakron

they are still a legitimate effort, no matter how terrible it is.

Quote from Drakron

they are still a legitimate effort

Quote from Drakron

legitimate

I see, so those who don't give half a damn about what the original Japanese script said and upload garbage for the sole purpose of garnering hits for advertising dollars is legitimate in your book. Ever the comedian, you.