dunno, but what I know for sure is that yaoi-loving fangirls have no right to downplay ecchi.

1 ratings piss me off too, a 1 means that you abosultely hate the manga and want to drag in down to hell, so to speak. I think that's the only reason why people rate mangas 1

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I don't understand why a 1 rating is that big of a deal. Barring trying (and hating) a genre that you generally avoid, if there is a manga you hate, what's the problem with giving it a 1?

I've read plenty of summaries where the plot sounded interesting but was, in reality, terrible, and vice versa.

However excessive use of either the 10 or the 1 irritates me to no end...

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Quote from Skinny Kazoo

I don't understand why a 1 rating is that big of a deal.

Well its not, the problem is heaven forbids if we use the full spectrum of the scale, that is 10 to 5.

I would say giving a series a 1 is about as fair as giving it a 10, very few series merit those scores but if we look at the ratings we see 10's being prevalent were 1's are very uncommon, if we look at Ah! My Goddess we have 154 votes in 10 and 11 votes in 1, Bleach 898 votes in 10 and 109 votes in 1 and Naruto 1116 votes in 10 and 208 votes in 1.

Its pretty clear the bigger problem is with the 10's, not the 1's.

As it stands the ranting system does not work but what else is new? I mean we see it happening pretty much everywhere were there is a rating system.

What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

I'm glad someone else took notice of this. I've talked about the subject before, and you are right: People rate down genres they hate. The big flaw in MangaUpdates's system is that, unlike MyAnimeList, for instance, any member can vote, regardless if they have read the series or not. Hell, I have seen a title that got more 1-votes than the reading and completed lists . . . Combined. That manga is Twilight, and you can guess where the angst is coming from.

However, like I indicated in my comment on that series, my concern is with great titles that are hated just because they touch sensibilities. For example, one of my favorite manga, Mon Seul, got undeservedly spammed with 1's just for addressing the topic of lolicon in a realistic, deep manner, and no Sir, it is only five chapters long (so no one would 'waste time' on it) with no explicit scenes whatsoever. Also, the protagonist is the person most against such a thing.

I have seen the same thing done to ecchi and harem manga. Surprisingly though, in my experience, yaoi are always untouched, except with 10's, that is.

Oh, well, when all is said and done, I think the majority of users are just kids and girls, so I've stopped paying attention to ratings a while ago. My formula nowadays is this:

Description + genres + maybe short comments + maybe categories (gotta be careful of futa) = add/don't add to wish list. (-)

Quote from Drakron

Quote from Pupok

Quote from Contently

And it's impossible to know whether you'll like it or not if you don't start reading it.

well as i understand it....it must be so extreme hatred that it's not likely that u'd even start to read something like that...u've read the summary right?it's impossible not to grasp the general idea of the exact manga after that...unless it's REALLY shallow...or cliche,but still...u must know what to expect atleast a bit,especially with the Tag's system.

To start, not all series have summary.
Second, a summary is just that ... its NOT a review.

Besides series change, I liked Mahou Tsukai Kurohime until the whole Time Travel Arc and after THAT revelation I dropped it, the same happened with Ga-Rei after being Yuri'd so what are going to say now?

What you are saying is absurd, its IMPOSSIBLE to know if something is good or bad by a summary or a bunch of tags and just because I enjoy, say, gender bender does not mean I will enjoy EVERY SINGLE gender bender series in existence ... I read Akane-chan Overdrive so should I enjoy the HORRIBLE ENDING?

Oh and I dropped AKB49 in that page were it said "bigger that the Beetles" ,,, no, no J-Pop band will be bigger that the Beetles ...

You are missing the point . . . If a series allowed you to enjoy even a tiny fraction of it, like the beginning or artwork, it means that you should rate the title more than 1, because 1 refers to the worst manga imaginable . . . Like if a friend drew a story in their sketch book and told you it was a manga.

If you exaggerate and think of a title as the worst by giving it a 1 for nonsensical reasons; then read another that is even worse; and later find one that is worse yet . . . Then you will find that your rating is flawed, as you have just skipped the 2-9 ratio and misjudged something. MangaUpdates gives you leniency to include decimals as well (although I don't use them).

My way is simple: Look at the mistakes in a title and compare it to others. I gave both Ichigo 100% and Love Hina an 8 initially, but do I think they are equal? No, I have reasons to believe that Ichigo 100% is better, so I keep it with an 8, and give Love Hina a 7. Small mistakes shouldn't be counted alone, otherwise, nothing would get a 10. In fact, the only series I have given a 10 so far on this website are ef - a fairy tale of the two. and Mon Seul.

It may not be a perfect strategy, and I may even change it in the future, but it works for me now without busting my brain with math (Sarcastically 'evaluate each chapter' . . . Ye~ah, maybe later >.> ).

[img]http://i43.tinypic.com/351e59t.jpg[/img]

Quote from Seijurou

I'm glad someone else took notice of this. I've talked about the subject before, and you are right: People rate down genres they hate.
...
I have seen the same thing done to ecchi and harem manga. Surprisingly though, in my experience, yaoi are always untouched, except with 10's, that is.

I may be wrong, but I have a different theory as to why ecchi and harem manga get lower ratings than yaoi (I'm not sure if this is actually true, but for the sake of the argument I'll take your word for it). Most people know beforehand if they are willing to read yaoi or not. It seems to be one of those genres that you either love or hate. If you hate it, you avoid it and try to never think about it again. So the people who read yaoi are usually already fans of the genre and are more likely to rate it highly.

When it comes to genres like ecchi, people usually fall somewhere in-between love or hate. Like some people are fine with ecchi as long as it doesn't go over the top with fan-service. And even if a person typically hates ecchi, if they come across a plot that they like, they might be willing to try out the series. So the ratings for ecchi might be getting pulled down by people who decided to give the series a try even if they normally don't like that sort of thing.

But I'm more in agreement with @Drakron. The bigger problem with ratings seem to be the 10s, not the 1s.

You are missing the point . . . If a series allowed you to enjoy even a tiny fraction of it, like the beginning or artwork, it means that you should rate the title more than 1, because 1 refers to the worst manga imaginable . . . Like if a friend drew a story in their sketch book and told you it was a manga.

Exactly my point!!!I started to feel like i was alone on that matter...glad to see some allies^_^

However, like I indicated in my comment on that series, my concern is with great titles that are hated just because they touch sensibilities. For example, one of my favorite manga, Mon Seul, got undeservedly spammed with 1's just for addressing the topic of lolicon in a realistic, deep manner, and no Sir, it is only five chapters long (so no one would 'waste time' on it) with no explicit scenes whatsoever. Also, the protagonist is the person most against such a thing.

Again...EXACTLY!u're like reading my mind or something ahah))thats what i was talking about!The same with my favourite Matsumoto Jiro's works..

Surprisingly though, in my experience, yaoi are always untouched, except with 10's, that is.

And again..thats where the theory about ecchi-hatin-girls comes in....guys just don't go downrate yaoi...it's totally women thing...though ofc it maybe some know-it-all-ecchi-critics who thinks that everything is cliched and sucks

Pissing people off doesn't help in a discussion >.<
but still I agree, even if I dont like something I always rate it, why?

1. These ratings are also useful on your public lists, it makes it easier for other people to find something good, in case they use this way of searching new mangas

i didn't call him stupid....i said that the act itself is stupid....
How can someone who doesn't understand the genre recommend something of that genre to anyone?

Quote from Seijurou

The big flaw in MangaUpdates's system is that, unlike MyAnimeList, for instance, any member can vote, regardless if they have read the series or not.

That is not a flaw.
User ratings are inherited flawed because there is no base criteria and no requirements for the rating.

These are not professional reviews were the reviewer usually have the background to issue a review and its based on critical criteria, the only indication of user reviews give is how the audience might have liked something and that is why ratings usually go to the extreme (and why ratings are moving to even more simple measures)

You are missing the point . . . If a series allowed you to enjoy even a tiny fraction of it, like the beginning or artwork, it means that you should rate the title more than 1, because 1 refers to the worst manga imaginable . . .

No, it seems you are because you stating a rating criteria that is entirely subjective ("enjoying") when there is no rating criteria.

MyAnimeList also have no rating criteria, only requirements to be able to rate and even those requirements are very much pointless, there is no way they can know if I am watching the series beyond the fact I am telling then I am by filling a check-box (or something, I dont use that site) and such system does not prevent abuse.

If you implement the same system here nothing would really change since the 10's and 1's are coming from users that have read the series since they felt strong enough about it to rate it.

What part of "Please do not put in huge images!" did you fail to understand?

You can't really tell what a Manga is going to be like until you've read through the first couple of chapters or less, so I would expect a majority of 1 - 3's to of been Manga's given up on, put into their completed list (because they aren't planning on reading it if they loathe it so), then give it a rating.

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Quote from Drakron

Quote from Seijurou

The big flaw in MangaUpdates's system is that, unlike MyAnimeList, for instance, any member can vote, regardless if they have read the series or not.

That is not a flaw.
User ratings are inherited flawed because there is no base criteria and no requirements for the rating.

These are not professional reviews were the reviewer usually have the background to issue a review and its based on critical criteria, the only indication of user reviews give is how the audience might have liked something and that is why ratings usually go to the extreme (and why ratings are moving to even more simple measures)

I would still rather hear from someone who read something than a person who simply hated the genre and down-voted a series without even reading it.

Quote from Drakron

Quote from Seijurou

You are missing the point . . . If a series allowed you to enjoy even a tiny fraction of it, like the beginning or artwork, it means that you should rate the title more than 1, because 1 refers to the worst manga imaginable . . .

No, it seems you are because you stating a rating criteria that is entirely subjective ("enjoying") when there is no rating criteria.

MyAnimeList also have no rating criteria, only requirements to be able to rate and even those requirements are very much pointless, there is no way they can know if I am watching the series beyond the fact I am telling then I am by filling a check-box (or something, I dont use that site) and such system does not prevent abuse.

If you implement the same system here nothing would really change since the 10's and 1's are coming from users that have read the series since they felt strong enough about it to rate it.

This is where you are mistaken. Even 'professional' reviews can be subjective to a point, and disagree highly, although truly 'objective' reviewers may have more differing opinions over the story and character development as opposed to the artwork, for instance.

There are ways to properly evaluate something on more than enjoyment. Just because most people do not abide by them does not mean they don't exist. Some have already been mentioned in this thread.

About the MyAnimeList requirements, yes, you can not give a score unless you have added the title to any of your lists, but it will not be counted in the top-ranked series system if one does not claim to have read/watched at least 1/5 of something. It may not be perfect, and like you say, anyone can lie eventually (and some already have), but it severely decreases the incidence of spam, as most users don't really care about what some website thinks. They have come simply to catalog and track what they have seen. Why would you want to add a title you despise to your list and soil it? I would not to put that even on my dropped list.

There is a huge difference between why people vote 1's and 10's. If you vote something a 10, then you are likely to have read/watched most, if not all of it, while if you give it a 1, then you have probably read/watched little of the title then dropped it, or, and that is what we are discussing here, you simply dislike seeing a type that is not to your preference rated highly.

In other words, there is more possibility for this to happen:

'Ugh, not another harem and ecchi! 1!' Moves on without reading the title

. . . Than for this to occur:

'Yay, another shounen action! 10!' Moves on without reading the title

Also, I have noticed that in series with a high rating of 10, a lot of users have also scored them 6-9, whereas if someone thinks negatively of a title, there are many 1's, but comparatively very little (sometimes even no) 2-5's (e.g., Mon Seul, Twilight (in fact, these manga have more 1-voters than 10-voters)).

Quote from Pupok

And again..thats where the theory about ecchi-hatin-girls comes in....guys just don't go downrate yaoi...it's totally women thing...though ofc it maybe some know-it-all-ecchi-critics who thinks that everything is cliched and sucks

🤣 Hahaha, man I loathe those hypocrites who keep reading titles that they always end up dissing.

Quote from Pupok

The same with my favourite Matsumoto Jiro's works..

Never heard of him before, but I have just checked out his works. They seem interesting. I may give them a try. 😃

[img]http://i43.tinypic.com/351e59t.jpg[/img]

What I don't understand is why you're making such a big deal out of this.
The rating system is objective and is meant to reflect the general opinion.
You can disregard it and read the comments on the manga, if it has any.
Sure, you can feel sad or whatever when a manga you like has low ratings, but why does it matter so much to you?
Does it make you not want to read a manga with many low ratings?
In that case, don't be a sheep and just read what sounds interesting to you.

Why the hell someone ever rate manga 1 or 2 points?!i mean...if u hate it THAT much ....why did u even started to read it in the frist place?=|

Pointing out the obvious - you need to read it in order to know whether you like it or not.

i mean...1-2p is kinda EXTREME option to me...imho there is just NO manga as bad as that....it's like u were disturbed to the point u were throwing out or something...u just opened the frist page and went straight "Oh GOD!It's just terrible!MY EYES!11!!1"

And what if I did think that?
What are you going to tell me?
I mean, seriously, dude, you're being way too judgemental.
It's everyone's right to dislike things.
I can say the same thing about ratings of 10 (which are by far more common).
So it's okay to state with a rating that something's supposedly perfect, but it's wrong to say another thing is completely bad?

P.s. though i've got a theory that it's girls downtrating ecchi on purpose, just for sole "ecchi" part

I'm sorry, what now?
As a "girl", I find that comment offending.
These girls are unlikely to read ecchi in the first place, same as guys aren't likely to read (as well as rate) yaoi manga.

Quote from Pupok

You are missing the point . . . If a series allowed you to enjoy even a tiny fraction of it, like the beginning or artwork, it means that you should rate the title more than 1, because 1 refers to the worst manga imaginable . . . Like if a friend drew a story in their sketch book and told you it was a manga.

Exactly my point!!!I started to feel like i was alone on that matter...glad to see some allies^_^

However, like I indicated in my comment on that series, my concern is with great titles that are hated just because they touch sensibilities. For example, one of my favorite manga, Mon Seul, got undeservedly spammed with 1's just for addressing the topic of lolicon in a realistic, deep manner, and no Sir, it is only five chapters long (so no one would 'waste time' on it) with no explicit scenes whatsoever. Also, the protagonist is the person most against such a thing.

Again...EXACTLY!u're like reading my mind or something ahah))thats what i was talking about!The same with my favourite Matsumoto Jiro's works..

Surprisingly though, in my experience, yaoi are always untouched, except with 10's, that is.

And again..thats where the theory about ecchi-hatin-girls comes in....guys just don't go downrate yaoi...it's totally women thing...though ofc it maybe some know-it-all-ecchi-critics who thinks that everything is cliched and sucks

Pissing people off doesn't help in a discussion >.<
but still I agree, even if I dont like something I always rate it, why?

1. These ratings are also useful on your public lists, it makes it easier for other people to find something good, in case they use this way of searching new mangas

i didn't call him stupid....i said that the act itself is stupid....
How can someone who doesn't understand the genre recommend something of that genre to anyone?

First point -
Please, please, please stop saying what people should be doing with their own opinions and expressions.
It's everyone's damn business.
I'm so tired of this argument. Why do you take the ratings to heart?

Taking Matsumoto Jiro for example.
I read a number of his works and liked none of them.
One of them, especially made a bad impression on me.
The art did nothing but give me a nasty feeling to accompany what in my opinion was a weird,
senseless story.
Same thing that probably gave you a good feeling inside, made me feel bad.
The whole experience was a negative one, and so I rated accordingly.
Just because you like it, doesn't mean other people would, or for that matter, should.

I can supply an example of my own - Ooshima Yumiko's Banana Bread Pudding.
In my opinion, it was a very weird story, but an enjoyable one. I liked the art, which gave everything a surreal cutesy-deadly feeling.
But on MU, the ratings for it are pretty low.
I'm a bit sad about it, but it doesn't take away anything from my enjoyment of the manga and the mangaka's other works.
I just don't take it personally.

Yaoi being untouched point -
This is so not true. Where is this coming from?
There are many yaoi titles with many negative votes.

Why are you blaming the female population for that?
I'm sorry, but this is just ignorant of you.

Again, enjoyment and subsequint ratings are all subjective things.
You can't be telling people off for rating things in a way that doesn't fit your views.

And you know, we've had this discussion here on MU already.
This feels a lot like a rant and I don't deem this thread worthy to exist.

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What I don't understand is why you're making such a big deal out of this.

Who said it's a big deal?I'm just asking out of curiousity,nothing more than that(and ofc i was just kinda bored),there are not so many interesting topics on this forum
To me it's you who takes it personally,for me it's just a steady conversation...i didn't yell,i didn't insult anyone...what makes you think i care THAT much about the matter? i just wanted to discuss it,and created a topic to do so

Pointing out the obvious - you need to read it in order to know whether you like it or not.

You didn't really read my posts huh?It wasn't about that,it was about avoiding things u don't like to begin with

As a "girl", I find that comment offending.

So what?Be offended then...what can i do about it if there really are some girls like that?I met them on this exact forum

Please, please, please stop saying what people should be doing with their own opinions and expressions.
It's everyone's damn business.
I'm so tired of this argument. Why do you take the ratings to heart?.

Show me exactly where did i tell someone to do something?i just asked why they did what they did,again,nothing more than that.

Why are you blaming the female population for that?
I'm sorry, but this is just ignorant of you.

Do you know the "theory" word?coz thats what i used,i believe in it,so why should i shut up about it?everyone is free to believe whatever they want,u can say that u have a theory that i killed Kennedy - i wouldn't care less,coz i know i didn't...so why do you care so much?I didn't say ALL the women do it,but some - really does

And you know, we've had this discussion here on MU already.
This feels a lot like a rant and I don't deem this thread worthy to exist.

first of all - i didn't find any,show it to me please
second... - i wasn't part of that conversation..i didn't have a chance to discuss it..so why should i care if there was a conversation like that or not?It's not some game topic of some manga discussion thread,there is always something new to discuss,new ideas to think about
But again,u are moderator,u decide, i don't really care.... coz if u want to close it - go on and close,not much i can do about it

Let people rate what they want, however they want - no matter how unreasonable it may be. It's their prerogative. It's not like it's hurting you, me, or anybody else.

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Everyday I'm tumblin'

This is just a discussion thread, right? Like, we're all here to ponder this phenomena and not to argue with each other, right? I don't want to get mixed up in an argument, but I'll gladly join a discussion.

I think it all boils down to how people treat the 1-10 rating system. It's a pretty universal system, so you'd think it would have some simple standards, but not so much. I personally treat 1 as "the absolute more horrible thing" and I'm inclined to believe that it's actually quite rare. I treat a 10 as "something that I enjoyed every moment of". 10s are rare for me, but they do happen. I don't think I've ever encountered a 1 before, probably because I stay away from genres I don't like. Even when I really dislike something, I begrudgingly think about the positives it has and rate is around a 3.

But other people seem to be much more direct. I'm guessing they work on a "love it/hate it" scale, where rating something they like as an 8 might feel like they're belittling it, and rating something they dislike as a 3 may feel like undue praise. There's nothing wrong with this, it's just different from my interpretation of the system, and the results end up mixed up. My 8 is probably equal to many other people's 10s, but you can't tell just by looking.

P.s. though i've got a theory that it's girls downtrating ecchi on purpose, just for sole "ecchi" part

Speaking as a girl that reads just about every genre, I can honestly say that the only reason I'd give an ecchi manga a bad rating is if it was totally boring. Some are, some aren't. I don't hate on manga just because of their genre, and if I did I'd be more likely to do so with each of the sappy, plotless, generic-looking shoujo manga I've come across. But I don't- I just ignore them. I'd like to think most people of both sexes operate with such discretion, but who knows.

Quote from Scyfon

Let people rate what they want, however the want - no matter how unreasonable it may be. It's their prerogative. It's not like it's hurting you, me, or anybody else.

First of all...i can't not let them..so it's kinda pointless advice 😉
and again..i didn't say a single word about hurt or insult...i was just curious,i wanted to know WHY ppl do so...u kinda exaggerate things..

I think it all boils down to how people treat the 1-10 rating system. It's a pretty universal system, so you'd think it would have some simple standards, but not so much. I personally treat 1 as "the absolute more horrible thing" and I'm inclined to believe that it's actually quite rare. I treat a 10 as "something that I enjoyed every moment of". 10s are rare for me, but they do happen. I don't think I've ever encountered a 1 before, probably because I stay away from genres I don't like. Even when I really dislike something, I begrudgingly think about the positives it has and rate is around a 3.

Another reasonable lady)nice to meet you)
Yup!as Seijurou and u,i do exactly the same - i avoid plots and genres i don't like,it's exactly why i was surprised about the whole matter to begin with,thats the main thing i don't understand...how can other people do otherwise

Speaking as a girl that reads just about every genre, I can honestly say that the only reason I'd give an ecchi manga a bad rating is if it was totally boring. Some are, some aren't. I don't hate on manga just because of their genre, and if I did I'd be more likely to do so with each of the sappy, plotless, generic-looking shoujo manga I've come across. But I don't- I just ignore them. I'd like to think most people of both sexes operate with such discretion, but who knows.

Amen to that)

Quote from Pupok

Quote from Scyfon

Let people rate what they want, however the want - no matter how unreasonable it may be. It's their prerogative. It's not like it's hurting you, me, or anybody else.

First of all...i can't not let them..so it's kinda pointless 😉
and again..i didn't say a single word about hurt or insult...i was just curious,i wanted to know WHY ppl do so...u kinda exaggerate things

....WAAAAH? 😕
Dude, way to misinterpret what I said.

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