Hehe nope cause scanlators take donations and use that to buy more raws just like libraries use taxes to expand 😛 Libraries are worse in that case since they have a much larger pool of money to fund their pursuit 😛 hmm the price you pay for borrowing is negligeble plus you could just read them there for FREE 😛 Yeah you give them back and then they can lend it to someone else doubling their crime so they are the same in that sense though I love them both for those very reasons 😀

Quote from luisalirio84

Hehe nope cause scanlators take donations and use that to buy more raws just like libraries use taxes to expand

Really? I didn't know that. In that case, I suppose it's okay then, as long as you were one of the ones who contributed. Because in a library, everyone contributes somehow to the general "Library Fund of the U.S.A." or whatever they call it. Now, if scanlators were to make it so that you could not access their releases only after donating a bit towards a RAW fund, say, between 1 and 5 dollars a month, and there was a program that automatically deleted the manga after a bit of time, then I would say there is nothing wrong with that, because it's exactly like a library. As long as the series was unlicensed, because a scanlation group site isn't a recognized distributor of a licensed title, and a library is.

.: It's bad, we're all monsters, but that hasn't stopped me before. reaches into excuse bag "I want to read manga however where I live coming accross anything in the kroger book isle or library is next to impossible, oh and Im not driving an hour to the mall, screw that" that'll have to do for now 😛 . :.

Familiarity, the first myth of reality; what you know best, you observe least.

Excellent idea imitorar. wait aren't you a translator for me? oh well 😛

hmm that might be the way of the future for licensed manga 😛

Quote from luisalirio84

Excellent idea imitorar. wait aren't you a translator for me? oh well 😛

hmm that might be the way of the future for licensed manga 😛

You think I should write a letter to Viz about it? It'd be cheaper to buy licensed manga online, because they wouldn't have to use paper and ink. But the thing is, scanlations are good, but holding the manga in your hands really does add to the experience. There's something about a hard-copy that makes the reading experience better for anything. But if the companies were to do both hard and online sales, my life would reach a very high level of niftyness.

And sorry I can't translate for you, but regrettably, I can't speak or read Japanese.

actually i'd like to start a company that does that one day 😛 Hmm sorry i confused your nick with a new translator in our group 🤢 . sorry 😛 Do't write to viz they suck. Wait till I do it 😛

Quote from Kaioh

Quote from SirGir

As I sit here with a copy of Tenshi na Konamaiki (or shudder Cheeky Angel in English) volume 7 from my local library, I have to wonder: Are libraries unethical? They seem a lot like scanlators to me, except they make works available for free that I should be buying instead; as opposed to the scanlators who make the unavailable available.

Thats a topic for a new discussion, isn't it?

And oh yeah, to add on to SirGir's gray area, reading entire books inside a book store (I guess provided the store allows for that...) and then not purchasing the book is similar to the library matter. But I remember this guy on Oprah that lived in Sweden where books are taxed heavily that he snuck in reading a few pages everytime he went to the store. But I think one has to be a fast reader in order to do that with novels...

[color=#990066]My avatar was Yves Saint Laurent's The Black Evening Dress (with big bow) first shown in 1983, photographed from his 2002 retrospective and final show.[/color] [color=#CC0066]Check out some of his collections for free (pre-2008) HERE[/color] [color=#CC0066]courtesy of FirstView[/color].

I actually don't think doing the bookstore thing is ethical either, because you aren't paying for the books at all. I've never used it, and never intend to. If I want manga, I'll either buy it, or download it and then buy it.

Quote from Imitorar

I actually don't think doing the bookstore thing is ethical either, because you aren't paying for the books at all. I've never used it, and never intend to. If I want manga, I'll either buy it, or download it and then buy it.

Forget ethical, I just plain hate those people. There are lots of other venues to read manga, so please get your grubby, gnarly, greasy hands off the precious! >:-( >:-(

I got to book stores to buy new books, not used ones!

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Quote from SirGir

Quote from Imitorar

I actually don't think doing the bookstore thing is ethical either, because you aren't paying for the books at all. I've never used it, and never intend to. If I want manga, I'll either buy it, or download it and then buy it.

Forget ethical, I just plain hate those people. There are lots of other venues to read manga, so please get your grubby, gnarly, greasy hands off the precious! >:-( >:-(

I got to book stores to buy new books, not used ones!

Okay, I'm going to just add to this part of the topic hopefully only one more time, because otherwise it's pushing the matter off-topic since it's no longer scanslated manga. x[

But also one of the things if bookstores wanted to do is to discourage people from reading in the store is that they wouldn't provide chairs. But then again, moving and selling books is hard so the bookstores maybe caved and have the chairs if it helps them sell more books. But for me, I don't always see books (not necessary manga) in perfect condition there, and I don't think it was because of several people giving one book excessive handling but unfortunately one accident (or another one to make it worse with a tear on the cover flap) with a person looking at it. 🙁

But other venues to read manga... Okay, other than scanslation, I think there's manga shops in places like Japan and China (pay a fee to read manga there. Actually, this sounds maybe less ethical than a library but...), there are friends (provided they own manga), and the library (provided there is manga in there), along with one just buying manga. Anything else to add?

I think in Japan for new manga, the bookshop has the books wrapped, because I remember I either saw noone standing and reading there or I wanted to know what was in the manga and couldn't flipped through it because it was all wrapped. But in Book-Off (second-hand manga store) lots of people were standing and reading manga, and I think it's fair that they weren't flipping and buying.

I don't know if Book-Off would count as one of the "other venues" that SirGir meant and would it be more of a "library/manga cafe" or a source of buying? Ah, maybe he doesn't care as long as it's not his books being touched. xD Fair enough. (I think I'm like SirGir in the particular fickleness about new books, but I don't think I've bought a book for [b]years[/b] (or at least not for myself) and I don't recall buying anything from the bookstore. But really, without I fickle I would be, maybe it's a better thing for my sanity and people around me that I don't. I'd be yelled at for taking too long constantly for trying to pick the best-conditioned book for $30. 🤢 🤣 ) I wonder how picky SirGir is about his books though (well I know he must like them in a good enough condition to buy them new...).

[color=#990066]My avatar was Yves Saint Laurent's The Black Evening Dress (with big bow) first shown in 1983, photographed from his 2002 retrospective and final show.[/color] [color=#CC0066]Check out some of his collections for free (pre-2008) HERE[/color] [color=#CC0066]courtesy of FirstView[/color].

Almost...or rather ALL manges that I scanlated up till now are the mangas that ive read before, plus i do buy the b books if th're in the store

I think if you don't sell them or in anyway, claimed them to your work then it's okay.

..::''Rose...~_'

By the letter of copyright law (such as the Berne Convention), scanlation is illegal.
(The Berne Convention is not new either as it was first adopted in Berne, Switzerland in 1886. As of April 2007, there are 163 countries that are parties to the Berne Convention. List of countries party to it)

It is almost never prosecuted however. Scanlation is viewed by many fans as an acceptable way to read manga which has had no "official" translation published in their own language. Alot of scanlators, stop distributing scanlations for manga that have been licensed, and advise fans of the manga in question to buy the official translation.This has somewhat remained the norm, not all people do buy it but there are more then a few that do.

Copyright holders have not usually requested scanlators to stop distribution before a work is licensed in the translated language; Because of this scanlators are safe to translate and scan manga. Recently there have been a change in the attitudes of original copyright holders in regards to how much they tolerate fan-translated material. More then one example of this has happened. However on the filp side of this those same companies that make those CaD letter use the response of the fans to see what series they bring overseas.

On occasion, some scanlators feel that certain manga series need to be translated by fans to preserve it from what is perceived as abusive or harmful censorship or editing. These groups continue knowing they are in direct harms way, do do so anyway as some companies do not treat their manga rightfully (in their eyes)

As Scanlators do not have access to the original editors, creators, or the artwork itself. Licensed editions generally have a consistently high level of quality due to these.

Their are alot of sites other there for downloads of this. and because of the lack of knowledge to the average joe, people take advantage of it. There are many sites that you have to pay to be able to use their services. The service of downloading manga that is free in the first place makes this avenue very debated

Manga Traders | A Shifting Perspective

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Quote from Takiko

But also one of the things if bookstores wanted to do is to discourage people from reading in the store is that they wouldn't provide chairs. Most bookstores like that now have cafes/coffee shops, and the average consumer doesn't care if their books have tiny dog-ears or are missing tiny sections of the bottoms of their covers. Almost everyone wins.

Quote from Takiko

I think there's manga shops in places like Japan and China (pay a fee to read manga there. Actually, this sounds maybe less ethical than a library but...), there are friends (provided they own manga), and the library (provided there is manga in there), along with one just buying manga. Anything else to add?

Yeah, do they have to pay special fees to rent those books?

Quote from Takiko

I don't know if Book-Off would count as one of the "other venues" that SirGir meant and would it be more of a "library/manga cafe" or a source of buying? Ah, maybe he doesn't care as long as it's not his books being touched. xD Fair enough. (I think I'm like SirGir in the particular fickleness about new books, but I don't think I've bought a book for years (or at least not for myself) and I don't recall buying anything from the bookstore. But really, without I fickle I would be, maybe it's a better thing for my sanity and people around me that I don't. I'd be yelled at for taking too long constantly for trying to pick the best-conditioned book for $30. 🤢 🤣 ) I wonder how picky SirGir is about his books though (well I know he must like them in a good enough condition to buy them new...).

"Other venues" mostly meant scanlations. I must whole-heartedly thank scanlations for protecting my books. 😀 There have been victims though, I've seen torn pages, creased covers, and even a title that appeared to have been read like a magazine (via folding the pages backwards, and so the book is permanently stuck open). Lucky for me, thus far manga mangling has only prevented me from leaving the store empty twice.

[img]http://myanimelist.net/createimage/SirGir.png[/img]

I buy manga regularly when I was in my country, but now here in germany it's way too expensive and they dont have many titles too.

"we are people because of other people"
"I am who I am because of who we all are"

I wouldn't say it is wrong, atleast for me since the manga I read is no where even near to be published or sold nearby my jungle village and I try to avoid PayPal and things to
actually keep some cash in my account. >.<