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Quote from Ghaz

• We also have a house of commons (where bills are drawn up), which is elected, but is still fucked because it's represented by population, not by area. So eastern Canada (I love you guys, no hate) has more Members of Parliament then Western Canada, giving them an advantage when it comes to creating favorable laws.

Every province is assigned a number of parliamentary seats based on population. Prince Edward Island is the only province over-represented in parliament and that is only because they are guaranteed a minimum of 4 seats as part of the articles of confederation.

Yes I know (except about the guaranteed 4 seats), I'm saying it's an unfair principle. It should be represented by AREA not by population. When it's represented by pop provinces with more population have more MP's giving them an unfair advantage in drawing up and passing bills. It's like when a favorable law for Western Canada is drawn up it has more of a chance of being vetoed because Eastern Canada has more MP's. If we had a certain number of seats allowed per area....like most countries, it would create equal opportunity to create or veto laws for both east and west.

The system we have now basically allows majority rule in the House of Commons, and who has the majority of MP's? Eastern Canada! If it was an equal number of MP's for each province, instead of this by riding bullshit, no province would have advantage over another. Mr.Speaker.

Actually most countries opt for proportional representation with no inclination towards area. Countries like the US and the UK use both, mainly because utilizing area disenfranchises cities and locations with denser population, and since the goal of democracy is to ensure the government conforms to majority opinion, it makes logical sense to give the denser areas a larger say.

Usually, though, it's not an either or type of deal. There are a lot of different ways of crafting representation, and the fairer it becomes, the more complicated it becomes. Just look at Ireland.

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The problems I have with Democracy is that EVERYONE GETS TO VOTE.

In a sense that's fair and everyone should get a say, but let's look at this case

The JFK got into office because he was good looking and exciting, I'm not saying the man is bad, but a majority of people voted for him because of that.

JFK could have been the best president, but he should get in because of his policies not his looks.

This is the issue, voting idealy should be limited to people who are affected by government the most, and people who are looking at the issues. Though this is hard to do so anyone who wants to vote can.

Starter of Controversy.

Quote from Crenshinibon

Actually most countries opt for proportional representation with no inclination towards area. Countries like the US and the UK use both, mainly because utilizing area disenfranchises cities and locations with denser population, and since the goal of democracy is to ensure the government conforms to majority opinion, it makes logical sense to give the denser areas a larger say.

Usually, though, it's not an either or type of deal. There are a lot of different ways of crafting representation, and the fairer it becomes, the more complicated it becomes. Just look at Ireland.

Really? I had no idea UK had both as well. See at least they have both, giving a sort of equal opportunity. Ontario has 106 MP's that can pass/veto bills, Alberta has 28. Granted yeah Ontario does have a bigger population but 106 seats to 28 seems a little bit off don't you think? That means any bill that will ever favor Alberta has no chance whatsoever, but a one that favors Ontario has usually is going to get passed. Unless it's a minority government. Why do you think the majority of Westerners hate Easterners? Western Canada has been and always will be, unimportant in the rest of Canada's eyes (unless they want money from the oil patches) due to our limited voice in the House of Commons.

And I'm now done talking politics, it's all crap anyway. Screw Liberals, screw Conservatives, screw the NDP, screw the Bloc, screw the Green Party, screw anyone else I forgot.

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Quote from lemondude

is it?

I lived in china I lived in canada, frankly I feel the same.

except I pay way more taxes here like 40 percent on income another 12 on everything else so that's 52 percent gone.

As for voting, I don't do it. The canada government is a joke it takes month to pass something, and by the time the action is taken the problem would have been over.

Freedom of speech?! What a lie, I say anything to anybody it's offensive. Nobody can talk about wat they think anymore, it's all generic, hi how are you good wat about you.

In china the taxes are lower and no tax on everyday items. Also the chinese are not as sensitive as the damn North Americans.

Damn talk about a Debbie downer! Two threads in a row. You've got some serious hate going on.
If you hate Canada so much get out, we don't want you either.

And if you scratch your ballot you have absolutely no right to complain about the state of parliament. 🙄 Maybe if more people like you took the time to actually look at the decent candidates they'd get chosen and maybe some day some one good could get voted in.

As for democracy... I think it's important but I do feel not everyone should get a vote. It should go to people who have graduated high school and have a job. It shows that they are contributing to the country and have some level of intelligence. But then who gets to stand up for the homeless? (I could care less about the stupid) I dunno, it's difficult.

And as for your little "NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH" rant. You can say what ever the hell you want as long as it doesn't offend anyone. You think someone is honestly going to come up and hit you if you say fireman? 🤣

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Democracy ain't perfect but it's pretty good.

And you know the PRC is a Democracy too, on the fact that they have an elected congress.(admittedly they have next to no power but...)

In China the government can forcibly relocate you if the government decides they want to build something where you live.

We have that in the States too. It's called Emanate Domain as I recall.It means the government can 'buy' your property for a rate decided to be reasonable by the government. Since we're America and good at complaining loudly that price is usually actually reasonable, but if they wanted the government could give you two bucks and take your house.

Quote from lemondude

is it?

I lived in china I lived in canada, frankly I feel the same.

except I pay way more taxes here like 40 percent on income another 12 on everything else so that's 52 percent gone.

As for voting, I don't do it. The canada government is a joke it takes month to pass something, and by the time the action is taken the problem would have been over.

Freedom of speech?! What a lie, I say anything to anybody it's offensive. Nobody can talk about wat they think anymore, it's all generic, hi how are you good wat about you.

In china the taxes are lower and no tax on everyday items. Also the chinese are not as sensitive as the damn North Americans.

If its about democracy, I would say its not overated since democracy is the best system that human has used so far. Other system than this, too many flaws in it.
If you have problem with democracy,you can try create new system that can beat democracy....

Btw, I think your issues is not with democracy its more to canada system right. I don't know about canada or china system, so no comment on that.

A well-meaning and intelligent monarch is a heck of a lot better than a corrupt 'democracy'.

But that's placing an awful lot of trust in a monarch... And on many an occasion, monarchy as gone horribly, terribly wrong.

Out of all political systems, socialist democracy remains the best. The problem with America is that it's a capitalist democracy. Capitalism is a natural anathema to democracy; no wonder they have problems. D'oh. Democracy is (ideally) about giving equal rights to everyone; capitalism is about giving more rights to those who can afford them. Just look at the recent Supreme Court ruling in the U.S.A, making corporations out to be 'persons' that can donate money to political campaigns anonymously... Great. A small bunch of super-rich a$$f*cks determining the outcome of an election, as opposed to the general populace? That's very democratic. But in America, the so-called scion of democracy, that happens all the time.

EDIT: OH CRAP I'VE DONE IT AGAIN. (Double-posting.) Mods, I wouldn't even blame you for banning me from the forums for this weirdness, but I swear, it's my crazy mouse button that refuses to work properly. Maybe I'll stay off B-U until I can get the damn thing fixed... Augh. So sorry.

Quote from xxkuroxx

Quote from lemondude

is it?

I lived in china I lived in canada, frankly I feel the same.

except I pay way more taxes here like 40 percent on income another 12 on everything else so that's 52 percent gone.

As for voting, I don't do it. The canada government is a joke it takes month to pass something, and by the time the action is taken the problem would have been over.

Freedom of speech?! What a lie, I say anything to anybody it's offensive. Nobody can talk about wat they think anymore, it's all generic, hi how are you good wat about you.

In china the taxes are lower and no tax on everyday items. Also the chinese are not as sensitive as the damn North Americans.

If its about democracy, I would say its not overated since democracy is the best system that human has used so far. Other system than this, too many flaws in it.
If you have problem with democracy,you can try create new system that can beat democracy....

Btw, I think your issues is not with democracy its more to canada system right. I don't know about canada or china system, so no comment on that.

You got it dead wrong... Democrazy has a fucking lot of flaws

Monarchy sucks because inbreed and unatural selection (after a few generations all leaders are batshit crazy)
Well I lack time so in simple terms

Tyranny/Dictatorship are the only 2 types of government that have no inherent flaws, is the ruler the one that has flaws...

Democrazy in theory sounds awesome, but in reality sucks balls... Democrazy stops evolution of society, since everything is viewed by popularity, important and revolutionary ideas get shut down, and the stupid and mindless have a say...

Really Tyranny is the way to go

One guy takes all the important decisions (and odds say if he managed to get into that situation then he/she is very resourceful and/or has a great team backing him), whatever the ruler thinks is important will get researched and for god Christ, a smart Tyrant will keep the masses happy or at least NOT unhappy, since Revolt is always a threat.

Really there is no better government, a guy/gal is the ruler of life... but if he/she sucks, then his/her life will be in constant danger of the rabid masses.

Everyone wins

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Quote from Chaoswind

Quote from xxkuroxx

Quote from lemondude

is it?

I lived in china I lived in canada, frankly I feel the same.

except I pay way more taxes here like 40 percent on income another 12 on everything else so that's 52 percent gone.

As for voting, I don't do it. The canada government is a joke it takes month to pass something, and by the time the action is taken the problem would have been over.

Freedom of speech?! What a lie, I say anything to anybody it's offensive. Nobody can talk about wat they think anymore, it's all generic, hi how are you good wat about you.

In china the taxes are lower and no tax on everyday items. Also the chinese are not as sensitive as the damn North Americans.

If its about democracy, I would say its not overated since democracy is the best system that human has used so far. Other system than this, too many flaws in it.
If you have problem with democracy,you can try create new system that can beat democracy....

Btw, I think your issues is not with democracy its more to canada system right. I don't know about canada or china system, so no comment on that.

You got it dead wrong... Democrazy has a fucking lot of flaws

Monarchy sucks because inbreed and unatural selection (after a few generations all leaders are batshit crazy)
Well I lack time so in simple terms

Tyranny/Dictatorship are the only 2 types of government that have no inherent flaws, is the ruler the one that has flaws...

Democrazy in theory sounds awesome, but in reality sucks balls... Democrazy stops evolution of society, since everything is viewed by popularity, important and revolutionary ideas get shut down, and the stupid and mindless have a say...

Really Tyranny is the way to go

One guy takes all the important decisions (and odds say if he managed to get into that situation then he/she is very resourceful and/or has a great team backing him), whatever the ruler thinks is important will get researched and for god Christ, a smart Tyrant will keep the masses happy or at least NOT unhappy, since Revolt is always a threat.

Really there is no better government, a guy/gal is the ruler of life... but if he/she sucks, then his/her life will be in constant danger of the rabid masses.

Everyone wins

I agree.
I'd take a just and capable tyrant over democracy, where the incompetent have just as much a say in things as, say, a professor.
But therin lies the problem. If you have a tyrant, odds are he/she will act only in his/her self interest. Unless you somehow get a capable person to assume responsability for everyone while this person doesn't want to. A tyrant who is unwilling to assume that position is most likely to not abuse his/her power. And then you still have the risk of that tyrant becoming corrupt at a later time.

Do but despise reason and science,
The highest of all human gifts -
Then you have surrendered to the Devil
And must surely perish. - J.W. von Goethe

It isn't overrated, while it isn't perfect there are no better options IMO.

Democracy is one of the two extremes. You need the middle.
*Here the democracy is rather ugly. 😮

Democracy is a great idea... everyone should get a vote... but in reality many of the Governments who employ democracy are themselves capitalist. With capitalism only the people who vote that have plenty of money are listened to. This is why I would favour a truly socialist government.

At the moment there is no real democracy anywhere in the world. The closest to pure democracy was the system used only by ancient Greeks in Athens and some other cities, and even they had their issues with who was considered a full-right citizen. It worked because of the relatively small amount of people in each city. Also, in theory, the political system has very little to do with economical systems or taxes. It's just that capitalism for example corrupts the people and any real democratic values in modern democracy-like political systems. At least that's my opinion.
Anyway, the subject is huge and I'm bored. 😛

I feel really sad reading most posts in this thread.
Have you kids ever thought WHY so many people gave their life to achieve democracy all over the world?
It's about justice.
While I admit there are faults in it is the only workin system in which every person is born equal.
Of course the rich have it easier but everyone CAN achieve prosperity and noone can just throw you in jail for trying.
And most of all:The western world which history is covered in blood as far as it goes has FINALLY achieved true peace all because of democracy.
You people should be happy about what your forefathers have left you after fighting so long for your so much hated democracy.

I don't think the problem with governments is the ideology, I think it's the people.

They have their ups and their downs.

In democracy you can get people arguing over shit when something worth the effort can be left unattended.

In democracy you can get George W. Bush

In democracy you can get the wishes of the common man fulfilled

In dictatorship (I think tyranny is kinda harsh) you can get a dude who thinks he's the messiah.

In dictatorship you can get Hitler.

In dictatorship (if you get an ideal dictator) you can get justice and prosperity.

I always thought the problem with societies are it's people.