I was actually waiting for a metal head to pop up. I think that the way that many metal heads look at metal as a genre is very narrow minded. To say that 'nu metal' is a blending of styles is true, but many 'true metal' genres blend other styles as well. Melodic Death, Melodic Black, Power Metal, and Avant Garde bands blend heavy doses of Classical music in their work. Folk Metal blends folk music. Many industrial bands blend electronica into their music.

I don't really agree with that. It's true that many genres blend different styles, but there you can always say that the genre is metal-based with influences from other genres.
Folk metal is metal, but saying that folk metal is folk music would be wrong.
Symphonic metal is metal, but it's not symphonic music. Symphonic music is classical music.
The metal in nu-metal is like the folk in folk metal. It's definitely there, but calling it metal is wrong speaking from a musicological point of view. It's not narrow minded or elitist, but just an attempt at being correct. I don't mind if people listen to nu-metal, it's their choice. But it's not metal, simple as that.

This is the main thing that perturbs me about metal in general. Bands like KSE or Soulfy get marked as Metalcore. Metal is the only scene that is divisive like that. You don't see the Hardcore scene saying Bad Brains is not Hardcore because they have ska influences. You don't see the Blues scene say that John Mayer isn't blues because he made several pop records.

Metal is the only genre that is so divisive like this, it's sad.

I partly agree. It's true that metal can be divisive, but I believe that it is useful to a certain extent. When I'm looking for good black metal bands, I want only black metal bands, not death metal bands too. There is an important stylistic difference. But metal is indeed too divisive if you look at the amount of "genres" that exists. You have symphonic black metal and black metal, why take it a step further?

I believe that the reason many metal heads are so divisive is because they want to prove the critics who call all loud guitar based music metal wrong.

And if you want to take it further, Doom and Goth metal are not very similar at all.

Not completely true. Doom metal had an important influence on the early development of goth metal. For example Paradise Lost, who gave their name to the genre with their album 'gothic'. Many early bands have important influences from both doom and goth metal. (notable examples are Tiamat, Moonspell, The Sins of Thy Beloved, early Theatre of Tragedy) The genres have cross-influenced each other frequently. It's true that the more recent, mostly female fronted, goth metal bands often don't have much in common with doom metal. The main reason I put them together in my above post is because sorting them out would be hard, for reasons stated above.

well, what is metal then? If a band like Black Sabbath came out today, they would be classified as hard rock. If Metallica came out today with Kill em All, they would be Metalcore. Slayer's Reign in Blood album is Thrashcore. Suicidal Tendencies have always been a Hardcore Punk band, but they are now labeled as Thrashcore. Crowbar is labeled as Doom metal, and so is Eyehategod, but they don't have similar song structure at all.

I still don't know why certain genres fall into metal and others don't, even after watching several documentaries on the subject.

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
[img]http://imagegen.last.fm/TheDarkTen/recenttracks/imgooley.gif[/img]

It's hard to give a simple answer to that, and I'm not a specialist on the matter or something, but as far as I know it's mostly a historical thing. It started with heavy metal, and then some heavy metal bands started playing faster and more aggressively, resulting in new styles called speed and trash metal. Some bands started using certain riffs and a typical lyrical structure, and took their vocals to the extreme by using some sort low growling sound, giving birth to death metal. Other trash metal bands started using complex song structures and a raw raspy voice. This became the first generation of black metal bands. The basic thing is that each style has evolved from another, earlier style. Symphonic styles were a reaction on the introduction of keyboards in metal. Folk metal was created by adding elements from folk music to earlier "pure" metal styles, most commonly black/death/power metal.

We could also do the reverse. Hard rock finds it origins in rock music, unlike metal, who finds it's origins in blues. This means that hard rock is not heavy metal.
The same could be said from nu-metal. I'm not too sure about it's origins, as it is a rather eclectic style. Some nu-metalbands may have found their origin in metal, but others clearly don't. Because of this, it seems wrong to me to classify the genre as a whole as metal. There is no clear, homogeneous connection between nu-metal and metal. Nor is there between nu-metal and rap. I believe the most correct thing to say would be that nu-metal is a completely new (small) musical family, that has broken with it's predecessors, like how heavy metal has broken with blues.

So right now you have metal coming from blues and hard rock coming from rock?

All musical styles that are popular in contemporary music come from blues.

And by your reasoning, Black Flag and Suicidal Tendencies would be thrash metal, when they are in fact hardcore punk. And what makes black/power/death metal more pure than other styles? Teh br00talz? I still don't understand why nu metal can't be metal. It doesn't even have rap influences. Bands like Disturbed, Godsmack, The Deftones, System of the Down don't even feature rapping in their music. And also by that reasoning, Rage Against the Machine would be nu metal, when they are most often classified as hard rock or groove metal.

Also what about bands like Queens of the Stoneage? They sound more like early heavy metal bands than most others, yet they are considered hard rock. Hatebreed is considered tough guy hardcore, but they sound similar to bands like Gojira and some Grindcore/deathcore bands.

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
[img]http://imagegen.last.fm/TheDarkTen/recenttracks/imgooley.gif[/img]

I have to say there is a lot of ignorance shown by people regarding metal but I tend to think that this genre of music, much like other genres, won't be understood by people who don't enjoy it. I myself am not sure where to draw the line with metal's subgenres because so many bands don't belong to one particular subgenre as they are fusions of multiple. I like having division though as it makes searching for bands of similar style easier.

If I want an elitist's determination of whether a band is "metal" or not, or of its categorisation, there is a site I frequent for that, but anyway, I just listen to what I like which happens to not be any bands in the so-called "false" metal area 😎

The labels make it easier to find stuff to listen to.
Melodeath,doom/goth,black,folk,industrial is where I mostly revel when it comes to metal. And I love melancholy in my music.

Otherwise I am with Pimea on this issue discussed here...

It really is a pile of shit to try digging through to make sense of the organisation system and sub-genres, and try to make the current day trends work with what was 20 years ago, not to mention what will come... Definitions change with time, and individual perspective.

Quote from havoccc

The labels make it easier to find stuff to listen to.
Melodeath,doom/goth,black,folk,industrial is where I mostly revel when it comes to metal. And I love melancholy in my music.

Otherwise I am with Pimea on this issue discussed here...

It really is a pile of shit to try digging through to make sense of the organisation system and sub-genres, and try to make the current day trends work with what was 20 years ago, not to mention what will come... Definitions change with time, and individual perspective.

If you love melancholy, try some blues. 😎

But the thing is, metal is metal. Regardless if elitists want to call something metal, it's still metal. Like Lamb of God. It's classified as Metalcore, because it has breakdowns. Supposedly, Metalcore is a fusion of Metal and Hardcore, or some sort of facsimile thereof. But Thrash Metal is a fusion of NWOBHM and Hardcore Punk. You listen to Slayer's Reign in Blood album and then put it next to a Suicidal Tendancies album, and you'll see more parallels than if you put a Suicidal Tendancies album up against a Lamb of God Album, or A7X or even a tough guy hardcore album like Hatbreed's Rise of Brutality album.

Wow that was a mini wall of text. My point is simple. Metal is metal. Heavy music using distorted guitars and heavy drumming is more often than not, metal. Is it always so? No. But it is most of the time.

Now, I am going back to my Gojira.

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
[img]http://imagegen.last.fm/TheDarkTen/recenttracks/imgooley.gif[/img]

i love metal, but i am more gear'd for Hard rock.

Favourite metal?

Probably Titanium. It's strong, light, and great for exhaust manifolds, subframes and mufflers. Also like Magnesium and Beryllium alloys.

As for Metal Bands....

Judas Priest, early Motorhead, Diamond-Head, 1980s Metallica, one or two Megadeth albums, some Kreator.... probably some others whose names I can't recall, mostly NWOBHM stuff. Some Dream Theater (r they metal??)....

Also, Thin Lizzy (not sure if they're metal either)

Not a fan of Black Sabbath, to be honest.... probably because my dad, whom I've got 'issues' with, liked them. Not heard much of their work to properly judge whether I like/hate them.

Some people consider Led Zeppelin metal (I don't)..... if that's the case, then the Zeps are probably my fave. Typical choice, I know.... but I can't help it.

Point & Squirt

Dream Theater are prog metal.
Thin Lizzy are hard rock for the most part. "Thundering & Lightning" there last studio album was more heavy metal than hard rock.

Genghis Tron.

Ah.... forgot to include Iron Maiden.

Responsible for the coolest cover art in history.

Point & Squirt

Quote from thezombieking

i love metal, but i am more gear'd for Hard rock.

Weak bump 🤢

I haven't listened to metal in ages...

Except for 1 Gojira song today

Listen here
Livin just to keep from dyin
[img]http://imagegen.last.fm/TheDarkTen/recenttracks/imgooley.gif[/img]

Manowar is my favorite. 😀

Most of their songs are based on Norse Mythology

I like symphonic metal or whatever it's called.. like Nightwish, Within Temptation, Lacuna Coil, etc. I listen to some Metallica too.. occasionally, my boyfriend makes me listen to Rammstein, which isn't bad.