I just believe that Gin is stronger and smarter cause he is not blinded by justice as Tousen was, literally and figuratively. He sees things as they are and he is manipulative. He knows what he wants thus Aizen carries him wherever he goes. As Gin said, Aizen is toying with Tousen knowing that Tousen will surely react during the incident with Grimmjow when Grimmjow lost his arm. So Gin can really see through Aizen, that's why I believe that he is stronger plus we haven't seen his bankai yet and don't believe that he sweat during his fight with Hitsugaya, I think.

If I were the rain.....
Could I ever merge with somebody's heart,
Like the way the rain merges the sky and earth,
Never meant to connect...

I hope we can learn more about Gin and Matsumoto's relationship to...wait, was that only in the anime?

I'm just going to make a few educated guesses about upcoming chapters.
First off, I think we might see Ichigo's father pull out the sword for the next battle. His powers were recently restored, and there had to be reason Soul Society decided to do that. Secondly, I think its safe to say Gin, Aizen, and the Blind Guy have all been through hollowification, because they have enough power to control the Espada, and looking at the Top Three, I doubt any normal Captain Level could accomplish that. Best fight is definitely going to be Ichigo versus Ulq, because it might be the only fight that's one on one. The rest will be complicated volleys, I presume. Though don't shoot me over conjecture of an anime. One way or another, we're looking at whole new levels of power.

Quote from Mahazel

Tousen is weak.We saw that clearly when he fought Zaraki.
Although he may have some hidden traits(like vaizard mask)..

calling Tousen weak cause he lost to Zarakai doesn't seem valid to me. i'd say it was understandable that he did lose to him. there has to be more valid proof to say why Tousen is weak. other than that i'd say he's possible on equal standing as Gin.

Quote from pamc_kel

I just believe that Gin is stronger and smarter cause he is not blinded by justice as Tousen was, literally and figuratively. He sees things as they are and he is manipulative. He knows what he wants thus Aizen carries him wherever he goes. As Gin said, Aizen is toying with Tousen knowing that Tousen will surely react during the incident with Grimmjow when Grimmjow lost his arm. So Gin can really see through Aizen, that's why I believe that he is stronger plus we haven't seen his bankai yet and don't believe that he sweat during his fight with Hitsugaya, I think.

maybe as a state of mind, but honestly does that really put Gin ahead? i don't think it does, just cause Gin is sly enough to get Aizen doesn't mean he's in a higher position that Tousen. what makes you think Aizen doesn't toy with him as well?

Quote from Dr. Love

Gin is stronger, period. 😛 Maybe not in a physical sense, but he is in battle tactics. Besides, Gin was this child prodigy and all. They didn't say anything like that about Tousen, ne?

we don't know for sure if he's stronger than Tousen in tactics yet. 😛 Gin being a former child prodigy doesn't seem like the best way to prove his strength to me. Hitsugaya is a child prodigy as well but that fact hasn't shown him as top notch compared to some other captains.

[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg[/img]

I hope we can learn more about Gin and Matsumoto's relationship to...wait, was that only in the anime?

that was in the manga too, really looking forward to the development of that as well.

Quote from jrdragon2003

we don't know for sure if he's stronger than Tousen in tactics yet. 😛 Gin being a former child prodigy doesn't seem like the best way to prove his strength to me. Hitsugaya is a child prodigy as well but that fact hasn't shown him as top notch compared to some other captains.

Yeah, but Hitsugaya is still a kid. 😀 He has great potential to be a very strong Captain when he grows up.

And with battle tactics, I mean that Gin can play on your feelings and therefore weaken you in the process. Not necessarily a fight, but think of the convo between Gin and Rukia.

Or how he made Toshiro mad when Hinamori attacked him, and he just stood there smiling. Like he was provocating him. The fact that he understands Aizen and is even 'like' him in a way, makes Gin stronger in our eyes. Since Aizen is the 'ultimate boss' as of yet.

I do admit that just because of the Zaraki battle, you can't say that Tousen is weak. Zaraki is just a monster, and has no fear. A fearless opponent is probably the weakness of Tousen's bankai. But look at how Tousen defeated the Vizards. Even though it was a surprise attack, it still counts for something~

That being said, Gin is stronger, dammit! He'll Shinsou your ass. xD

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I do admit that just because of the Zaraki battle, you can't say that Tousen is weak. Zaraki is just a monster, and has no fear. A fearless opponent is probably the weakness of Tousen's bankai. But look at how Tousen defeated the Vizards. Even though it was a surprise attack, it still counts for something~

Technically they were not vizards yet 🙂

As for Gin, i don't really think that he fought serious against Hitsugaya.It rather looked like he was testing his skills, and was always step ahead of him in battle.
I'm bit curious aganist who he will be fighting in upcoming battle.

well Gin's mind games during a fight seem more like his style or habit, then to say he's stronger. 😛

Quote from Mahazel

As for Gin, i don't really think that he fought serious against Hitsugaya.It rather looked like he was testing his skills, and was always step ahead of him in battle.
I'm bit curious aganist who he will be fighting in upcoming battle.

chances are that he'll fight Hitsugaya. him and Matsumoto pretty much have a thing to settle with him anyways.

[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/19.jpg[/img]

Quote from Mahazel

Technically they were not vizards yet 🙂

I didn't say they were Vizards at that moment of time. I was just referring to their group(Shinji, Hiyori, etc.) as 'Vizards' to make it easier. 🤣

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Quote from jrdragon2003

i can agree with the positioning of Barragan, but i don't know about using Gin and Tousen to describe Stark and Halibel like that. i mean Gin hasn't been shown to be overly stronger than Tousen, not that i'm saying he's weaker than him either mind you. but i don't think that using those two to determine the positioning or rankings of the final three might not be to good of an idea IMO.

..lol.. I was just throwing ideas around. Obviously theres no way to know for sure until the manga actually shows it. Aside from Espada rankings however, I am pretty confident that Gin>Tousen. The only evidence I will point out, is the fact that stronger characters in most manga show off their power later on, and as of now we haven't seen the bankai of Aizen, Gin, Yamamoto captn commander and a few other strong guys.
Just by simple logic (since chapter 1 in a manga like Bleach the "power levels" just keep on rising) you can figure out that the 2nd boss > 1st boss. There will always be progressively stronger enemies.

[img]http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6818/29042893.png[/img]
[img]http://img.userbars.pl/69/13603.gif[/img]

Quote from jrdragon2003

we don't know for sure if he's stronger than Tousen in tactics yet. 😛 Gin being a former child prodigy doesn't seem like the best way to prove his strength to me. Hitsugaya is a child prodigy as well but that fact hasn't shown him as top notch compared to some other captains.

I think in terms of experience Gin is ahead of Hitsugaya clearly because he was in SS before Hitsugaya . Plus the fact that Hitsugaya has a normal upbringing, which lead me to say that Gin might not have since when he entered SS at a young age we have seen in the gaiden arc that Gin is already twisted when he was taken under Aizen's wing. As compared to Hitsugaya which i think is normal, Hitsugaya during his fight with Gin was easily overcome with human emotions unlike Gin who was just plain crazyily cool.

However I can still say that Hitsugaya at a young age is a logical thinker and a capable captain based on his performance during his stay in the human world with Matsumoto, Renji, Ikaku and Yumichika. He has still so much room to grow his powers and ability and I bet he is a fast learner, since he was also tagged as a prodigy. If he just wouldn't let his emotion interfere, even if Gin is ahead of him in terms of experience, he might have a chance of beating Gin or fight at par with him unless Gin has undergone some type of hollowfication which i don't want. As much as i love Hitsugaya, I also like Gin, although he's a raving lunatic left on the loose. I just like both of them to battle it out to release all the built up tension but i would love to see them alive at the end. 🤣

If I were the rain.....
Could I ever merge with somebody's heart,
Like the way the rain merges the sky and earth,
Never meant to connect...