banner_jpg
Username/Email: Password:
Forums

Is peace EVEN possible?

Poll
Is there such a thing as Peace and can it be achieved?
Yes. there is no doubt in my mind
No it's merely an illusion created by those who don't want to accept reality.
Votes: 132

Pages (8) [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Last ] Next
You must be registered to post!
From User
Message Body
Post #364326 - Reply to (#364321) by tsuto
user avatar
Member

9:38 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 159


.
Quote from fr33noob
Quote from Vudoodude
Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


See, I always question statements like this. Theoretically, say you have a single spherical container known as the universe, and inside of it there is no source of light whatsoever. Therefore the entire theoretical universe is immersed in complete darkness. Darkness does not need light to exist, in fact darkness is the ABSENCE of light. Darkness does not exist where light exists. To assume that darkness needs light to exist is faulty, because darkness itself is not created by light, but exists when light is not present.

We only view darkness conceptually in relation to light because of the relationship the two tend to share, if light is present then darkness does not exist, and if darkness is present then that means light must not be present. In actuality, darkness can exist without light, in fact the very definition of darkness is without light, and light itself is simply seen as "not-darkness". Darkness could have existed before the universe was created, before the first source of light even existed.

Similarly, peace and war does not require one another to exist. In a (theoretical) time before war, a time before humanity has advanced enough to create societies, the act of war did not exist. There were hunts for food, disputes between (neanderthals) people, but war itself did not actually exist. It was an era of peace, but only when society advanced enough to produce war, did war begin to exist and disturb peace.

Take for example, the animal kingdom. Do we say rabbits live in peace? Aside from the natural order of predation, rabbits exist in harmony with one another, they live in peace. Does war exist among rabbits? Are rabbits even capable of war? Let's take a better example, the lion. Lions naturally live in packs, and will hunt lesser beings. They are at the top of the food chain and lay out territories in which they exist and hunt. They can be said to be at peace, but if two different packs of lions decide to fight over territory or superiority, can we not asy that they are warring?

So what is the difference that exists between rabbit and lion? The difference is the advancement in behavior within the species. Rabbits tend to live quite randomly whereas lions form packs, and even claim territory. It is only because "packs" and "territory" exists that war can exist.

But i deter. Ultimately, peace can exist without war, and in fact before conflict is even possible, and before life even exists, the universe is at peace. War is only created and formed later (and arguably we conceptualize war and peace and defined them as such), but this does not mean that peace had never existed until then. Just because we have yet to conceptualize something does not mean it never existed in the first place, and just because we link two concepts together does not mean they cannot exist without one another. Darkness can exist without light, and in fact if light never existed, it would be conceptualize as "everything", and peace can exist without war, if war never existed then peace would be conceptualize as "the state of now" or the "state of living"


i like your point, "state of now", but isn't that just a compremise? for its exsistence to be eternal then simple eliminiton is cause, ever considered the fact that it is within our nature to seek greed. remember we don't live a communist sociaty we live in a capitalist one.
The theory of gaia states for things to live harmouniously we should adapt acordingly, we don't...amoung humans this theory is but an illusion. and since we refuse to die like a virus and seek greed? perhaps this peace may never exist?

oh and "light" is a source of energy, think of it this way, the existance of infinity to light can never be achived since dankness exist withing the universe already meaning there is always darkness even if light exists. Since the light is not infinite then we curently have darkness existing etenarly, you only see compremise within the space of a certain place and time.


peace was created for a way to escape war complete peace wouldnt be called peace it would be called utopia as for darkness is can't exist either without light because to have darkness you need light somehwre a completle darkness without light isn't darkness either it's nothingness or neant or whatever it's called in english .


Last edited by darkraiders at 9:51 am, Mar 17 2010

Post #364328 - Reply to (#364320) by Vudoodude
user avatar
Madman
 Moderator

9:51 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 3342


Quote from Vudoodude
Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


See, I always question statements like this. Theoretically, say you have a single spherical container known as the universe, and inside of it there is no source of light whatsoever. Therefore the entire theoretical universe is immersed in complete darkness. Darkness does not need light to exist, in fact darkness is the ABSENCE of light. Darkness does not exist where light exists. To assume that darkness needs light to exist is faulty, because darkness itself is not created by light, but exists when light is not present.

I agree, but I think you're misunderstanding the point.

You don't need light to have darkness, Since darkness is the absence of light.

But the same is not true Visa Versa. Because there exists darkness where there is light. No matter how bright a light, and no matter how many lights you have, there will always be a shadow. (Shadow being a type of darkness)

It's just a general rule.
Like All A has one B. But not all B has one A. (Unless you have an infinite amount of light,but it's theoretically impossible to have an infinite amount of anything.)
Therefore, where there is light, there is darkness. This is theoretically equivalent to the statement "Light needs darkness in order for light to exist, otherwise it would defy some natural law."

That's the point darkraiders was trying to make. He was incorrect in stating "1 can't live without the other," because darkness can exist without light. But he was correct in saying "to have light you need darkness." Confusion may have stemmed from there.

________________
"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "
Post #364329
Member

10:14 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 15


I think Peace on Earth is quite attainable, if we have such a powerful tyrant that rules over the earth and no one can oppose him, it is up to him to decide what's right and what's wrong, decide what our life should be and should not, what we should do in our life and what we should not, then you don't need a war anymore because the bastards will receive his punishment and the rightful one will live in peace (too bad if he judge you as a bastard)
It's just like the central nervous system of a body, every organs do what the central nervous system tell them to do with no disagreement
IMO, The U.N. is a close example, but I guess they're just not powerful enough.

If we neglect the tyrant idea, then how about when some inhabitants on Earth move to other planets and create other powerful, warlike planets that force those who remain on Earth to unite in one organization to avoid being conquered. biggrin

Edit: I have read an article by Stephen Hawking about the Second Law of Thermodynamics which says that:
Quote
the total amount of disorder, or entropy, in the universe, always increases with time. However, the Law refers only to the total amount of disorder. The order in one body can increase, provided that the amount of disorder in its surroundings increases by a greater amount

So if we consider peace as order and war as disorder, then peace is quite attainable if it's local peace, peace within 1 body, 1 organization, 1 planet or 1 star system... given that the war surrounding it, to maintain that peace is increasing laugh

Last edited by Giong at 10:28 am, Mar 17 2010

Post #364332 - Reply to (#364329) by Giong
Member

10:32 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 82


Quote from Giong
I think Peace on Earth is quite attainable, if we have such a powerful tyrant that rules over the earth and no one can oppose him, it is up to him to decide what's right and what's wrong, decide what our life should be and should not, what we should do in our life and what we should not, then you don't need a war anymore because the bastards will receive his punishment and the rightful one will live in peace (too bad if he judge you as a bastard)
It's just like the central nervous system of a body, every organs do what the central nervous system tell them to do with no disagreement
IMO, The U.N. is a close example, but I guess they're just not powerful enough.



Kinda like feudalism? Even if it's possible (nobody will be able to overthrow him, imposible right bigrazz), but would that world be peaceful? That kind of peace without happiness isn't peace. Do you like to be told what to do and not to do? Reminds me of Light's dream bigrazz


Post #364336 - Reply to (#364332) by bwfas
Member

10:55 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 15


Quote
Kinda like feudalism? Even if it's possible (nobody will be able to overthrow him, imposible right bigrazz ), but would that world be peaceful? That kind of peace without happiness isn't peace. Do you like to be told what to do and not to do? Reminds me of Light's dream bigrazz


Oh come on, have you ever thought about how the dog in your house live? It cannot go out side without its master's acceptance, it can only eat what its master give to it, it cannot bark loudly if the neighbours are annoyed and call the police.

But the dog is still in peace, and this is not the matter of intelligence, it's because from childhood, that dog has learned that obey the master and you're in peace, disobey then you're punish.

So, If no one ever told you that "speak for yourself, live you own way, be happy...", but instead, everyone told you that "obey your master, believe in him no matter what..." blah blah blah, then do you think it would annoy, irritate, hurt... you anymore if you obey exactly what he-who-must-be-obey tell you?

Post #364339
Member

11:09 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 82


Oo..okay~ but I already have those in my mind now. And I don't wanna be somebody's dog for 'peace'. I don't think anybody wants smile I think we're talking about world peace in normal understanding, the one that comes with happiness for everyone, that unreal dream.

However peace in small scale: peace in our souls, a peaceful life with family and friends is pretty possible if we try <- kinda cheesy biggrin

Post #364347 - Reply to (#364326) by darkraiders
user avatar
0n3 Winged
Member

11:53 am, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from darkraiders
.
Quote from fr33noob
Quote from Vudoodude
Quote from darkraiders
Complete peace is impossible since to have peace you need war like to have light you need darkness 1 can't live without the other it's sad but thats how it work.


See, I always question statements like this. Theoretically, say you have a single spherical container known as the universe, and inside of it there is no source of light whatsoever. Therefore the entire theoretical universe is immersed in complete darkness. Darkness does not need light to exist, in fact darkness is the ABSENCE of light. Darkness does not exist where light exists. To assume that darkness needs light to exist is faulty, because darkness itself is not created by light, but exists when light is not present.

We only view darkness conceptually in relation to light because of the relationship the two tend to share, if light is present then darkness does not exist, and if darkness is present then that means light must not be present. In actuality, darkness can exist without light, in fact the very definition of darkness is without light, and light itself is simply seen as "not-darkness". Darkness could have existed before the universe was created, before the first source of light even existed.

Similarly, peace and war does not require one another to exist. In a (theoretical) time before war, a time before humanity has advanced enough to create societies, the act of war did not exist. There were hunts for food, disputes between (neanderthals) people, but war itself did not actually exist. It was an era of peace, but only when society advanced enough to produce war, did war begin to exist and disturb peace.

Take for example, the animal kingdom. Do we say rabbits live in peace? Aside from the natural order of predation, rabbits exist in harmony with one another, they live in peace. Does war exist among rabbits? Are rabbits even capable of war? Let's take a better example, the lion. Lions naturally live in packs, and will hunt lesser beings. They are at the top of the food chain and lay out territories in which they exist and hunt. They can be said to be at peace, but if two different packs of lions decide to fight over territory or superiority, can we not asy that they are warring?

So what is the difference that exists between rabbit and lion? The difference is the advancement in behavior within the species. Rabbits tend to live quite randomly whereas lions form packs, and even claim territory. It is only because "packs" and "territory" exists that war can exist.

But i deter. Ultimately, peace can exist without war, and in fact before conflict is even possible, and before life even exists, the universe is at peace. War is only created and formed later (and arguably we conceptualize war and peace and defined them as such), but this does not mean that peace had never existed until then. Just because we have yet to conceptualize something does not mean it never existed in the first place, and just because we link two concepts together does not mean they cannot exist without one another. Darkness can exist without light, and in fact if light never existed, it would be conceptualize as "everything", and peace can exist without war, if war never existed then peace would be conceptualize as "the state of now" or the "state of living"


i like your point, "state of now", but isn't that just a compremise? for its exsistence to be eternal then simple eliminiton is cause, ever considered the fact that it is within our nature to seek greed. remember we don't live a communist sociaty we live in a capitalist one.
The theory of gaia states for things to live harmouniously we should adapt acordingly, we don't...amoung humans this theory is but an illusion. and since we refuse to die like a virus and seek greed? perhaps this peace may never exist?

oh and "light" is a source of energy, think of it this way, the existance of infinity to light can never be achived since dankness exist withing the universe already meaning there is always darkness even if light exists. Since the light is not infinite then we curently have darkness existing etenarly, you only see compremise within the space of a certain place and time.


peace was created for a way to escape war complete peace wouldnt be called peace it would be called utopia as for darkness is can't exist either without light because to have darkness you need light somehwre a completle darkness without light isn't darkness either it's nothingness or neant or whatever it's called in english .


i get your point, but my point also is stating that it won't exist in one place forever, its just circumstantal peace, it never lasts forever, and a utopia IS an ideal peace laugh

illusionists think they can have it a certain way but the core of it will never allow a utopia like you said and that is what people are trying to archive. Harsh reality is that we need to sacrafice alot for such ideality including freedoms in many areas<-----this will never happen because of so many implecations. like a previous statement of mine was " the simple elimination of the human race will cause an ecosystem of harmony for the EARTH", that is on a larger scale view point.

laugh

________________
User Posted Image
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
User Posted Image
Member

12:23 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 153


Quote from bwfas
Kinda like feudalism?


It's more like absolute monarchy because the ruler in feudalism is actually pretty weak and dependent on his vassals...
And speaking about this, this topic reminds me of Thomas Hobbes' Leviathan where he states that if humans are left to do whatever they want they will return to their original savage "state of nature", meaning that they need someone to control them, someone whose power to "over-awe" them or something like that. So yeah, peace between people might be attainable if there's someone to rule over them and suppress their selfish desires.. But then peace of mind of individuals will be achieved too difficultly. And the whole situation is way too abstract to be considered for real...

I guess I don't believe... though I really want to sad

user avatar
0n3 Winged
Member

12:45 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


i think it's great to a certain extent to be optemistic but there are times when i feel humanity needs to take look at what it has become and realise that we just may be "monsters" who think they are the only and ultimate sense. peace doesn't just apply to us, broaden your mind, think! what have we become, a beast of intellegence and great cunning that thrives through out the earth like a viral infection yet we seek such idologies such as peace... laugh

________________
User Posted Image
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
User Posted Image
Post #364357 - Reply to (#364313) by fr33noob
user avatar
2nd wave MU user
 Member

1:22 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 7784


Quote from fr33noob
Quote from Mamsmilk
Quote from fr33noob
Quote from greydrak
It's perfectly attainable, just kill everything.

Peace eyes

With nothing left to argue or bicker among each other, true peace can be achieved.

Most people probably won't agree with it though since it'll require them to die...

roll eyes (This is what you get for not asking peace among living creatures/humans bigrazz )



lol laugh

so true...

False.

Warning, cognition inducing substance!

Since we need at least 1 person for the concept peace to exist,
for it does not manifest in nature. If there are no humans, there is
no peace as if there are no humans, there is no classical music,
just something a human being would acknowledge to be classical music,
but a bat would find just an unexplainable nuisance, although the
classical music most likely never came to be if humans were not
to exist.

Peace is a definition made by humans,
therefore animals do not have such notions. For peace to exist in
praxis, you need two human beings. Both participants must share
the same view of not having aggressions against the other party
and such things that do not have self-awareness of higher level certainly
do not have the awareness of somebody else's self-awareness, even less
awareness of such abstracts as peace.

Although there are animals that might
have allies, such as primates, we are not to speak of peace,
since they have no clue what peace is,
they just do something that helps them surive, all instictively.
The peace we
discuss now has nothing to do with anti-aggression pacts of primates.
For there to be peace between them, there must be a human to say
that there is a peace between them. Apes just stick together for their
own good, not because they have a developed moral code.

We could compare peace with a Datsun 100A. It is perfectly possible
for a Datsun 100A to exist as substance without humans, assuming
Nissan hasn't lied to us and has actually made all Datsun 100A's out
out of human bodies. (Although it could still exist, since human bodies
are made of substances that also appear elsewhere besides human bodies,
but it would be another mystery how human bodies came to be without humans
and what exactly is Nissan, but that is not crucial now.)
That Datsun 100A however requires a human
being to classify it a Datsun 100A and of course that means that the
human must speak truth of what s/he sees. It is not a Nissan 140Y,
even if the human mistakes it to be one. Just like the alliance
between apes might be mistaken to be a peace, but is only something
that resembles something that we know and that thing is peace.
All those Datsun 100A's could
exist in the nature based on the atoms they consist of. It does not
require a human for those atoms to exist, although it requires a human
to create a Datsun 100A out of those atoms. Just like the alliance between
monkeys, Datsun 100A is there. It just is not a Datsun 100A if nobody ever
made the concept Datsun 100A and if nobody ever saw it as Datsun 100A,
although it still is identical to a Datsun 100A to us who know how Datsun 100A
looks.
It would just be a huge abomination that no being can explain,
assuming any being besides the inexistant humans could explain anything.

One cannot be in peace with hermit
crabs, since they are unable to form a coherent stance or any stance at all.
There is no peace between granite and peridotite. There however can be
a peace between two beings that posses self-awareness and enough
intelligence to understand the concept and practice of peace or
groups of such beings. Such beings can assume that there is a peace
between granite and peridotite, but that would not be true, only false belief,
as false as granite and peridotite actually possessing the conditions required
for peace, but not being able to comprehend the idea of peace, therefore
making peace inexistant.


Amen.

Although I doubt anybody who read this understood my point,
but just try it.
I tried to keep my thought as one and firm, but I wrote between lines
and it was hard to stop adding new material, so I ended up writing
even more of the sub-categories of sub-categories and so on and
leaving the main subject clouded for a while to myself.
Everything is still there however.



who is to say the earth is not alive? acording to the theory life has its own definition and just having emotions and a concesnouse doesn't cover it, humans are like a viral infection to this earth inhabitance, we are the only race who don''t adapt to the eviroment but change it like a virus, truly after we are dead the earth will be peacefull with no ill harbour to the harmonious ecosystem it has.

we are like a plague, just because your human doesn't make you exzempt from it. peace for the earth is what is needed, then perhaps all humans should be eliminated. you just look at the compremises as a human, you see a leaf on a branch and i see the tree in the forest.


Apparently you didn't take the time to read all that I've said.
Everything you wrote is covered in my post.
Peace won't exist when humans are dead, since
humans invented peace and it only exists when there
is a human that will make it exist. Just like there can
be a colour that fits fr33noob's tastes, but if the fr33noob
in question is dead and does not exist, there is no colour
that fits his tastes.

Having emotion and self-awareness does not cover what?
Earth is alive? Earth itself is not alive, but the organisms
that inhabit the planet are alive.

If you say that you see a tree in the forest when you
think peace is to come when all humans are eliminated,
then you probably do not realise that us humans are the
forest and peace is a tree. We say what peace is.
It is just a notion that needs humans for itself to exist.
What you see is nothing, since there is no forest,
there's neither trees in it.


Post #364359 - Reply to (#364357) by Mamsmilk
user avatar
0n3 Winged
Member

1:29 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from Mamsmilk
Quote from fr33noob
Quote from Mamsmilk
Quote from fr33noob
Quote from greydrak
It's perfectly attainable, just kill everything.

Peace eyes

With nothing left to argue or bicker among each other, true peace can be achieved.

Most people probably won't agree with it though since it'll require them to die...

roll eyes (This is what you get for not asking peace among living creatures/humans bigrazz )



lol laugh

so true...

False.

Warning, cognition inducing substance!

Since we need at least 1 person for the concept peace to exist,
for it does not manifest in nature. If there are no humans, there is
no peace as if there are no humans, there is no classical music,
just something a human being would acknowledge to be classical music,
but a bat would find just an unexplainable nuisance, although the
classical music most likely never came to be if humans were not
to exist.

Peace is a definition made by humans,
therefore animals do not have such notions. For peace to exist in
praxis, you need two human beings. Both participants must share
the same view of not having aggressions against the other party
and such things that do not have self-awareness of higher level certainly
do not have the awareness of somebody else's self-awareness, even less
awareness of such abstracts as peace.

Although there are animals that might
have allies, such as primates, we are not to speak of peace,
since they have no clue what peace is,
they just do something that helps them surive, all instictively.
The peace we
discuss now has nothing to do with anti-aggression pacts of primates.
For there to be peace between them, there must be a human to say
that there is a peace between them. Apes just stick together for their
own good, not because they have a developed moral code.

We could compare peace with a Datsun 100A. It is perfectly possible
for a Datsun 100A to exist as substance without humans, assuming
Nissan hasn't lied to us and has actually made all Datsun 100A's out
out of human bodies. (Although it could still exist, since human bodies
are made of substances that also appear elsewhere besides human bodies,
but it would be another mystery how human bodies came to be without humans
and what exactly is Nissan, but that is not crucial now.)
That Datsun 100A however requires a human
being to classify it a Datsun 100A and of course that means that the
human must speak truth of what s/he sees. It is not a Nissan 140Y,
even if the human mistakes it to be one. Just like the alliance
between apes might be mistaken to be a peace, but is only something
that resembles something that we know and that thing is peace.
All those Datsun 100A's could
exist in the nature based on the atoms they consist of. It does not
require a human for those atoms to exist, although it requires a human
to create a Datsun 100A out of those atoms. Just like the alliance between
monkeys, Datsun 100A is there. It just is not a Datsun 100A if nobody ever
made the concept Datsun 100A and if nobody ever saw it as Datsun 100A,
although it still is identical to a Datsun 100A to us who know how Datsun 100A
looks.
It would just be a huge abomination that no being can explain,
assuming any being besides the inexistant humans could explain anything.

One cannot be in peace with hermit
crabs, since they are unable to form a coherent stance or any stance at all.
There is no peace between granite and peridotite. There however can be
a peace between two beings that posses self-awareness and enough
intelligence to understand the concept and practice of peace or
groups of such beings. Such beings can assume that there is a peace
between granite and peridotite, but that would not be true, only false belief,
as false as granite and peridotite actually possessing the conditions required
for peace, but not being able to comprehend the idea of peace, therefore
making peace inexistant.


Amen.

Although I doubt anybody who read this understood my point,
but just try it.
I tried to keep my thought as one and firm, but I wrote between lines
and it was hard to stop adding new material, so I ended up writing
even more of the sub-categories of sub-categories and so on and
leaving the main subject clouded for a while to myself.
Everything is still there however.



who is to say the earth is not alive? acording to the theory life has its own definition and just having emotions and a concesnouse doesn't cover it, humans are like a viral infection to this earth inhabitance, we are the only race who don''t adapt to the eviroment but change it like a virus, truly after we are dead the earth will be peacefull with no ill harbour to the harmonious ecosystem it has.

we are like a plague, just because your human doesn't make you exzempt from it. peace for the earth is what is needed, then perhaps all humans should be eliminated. you just look at the compremises as a human, you see a leaf on a branch and i see the tree in the forest.


Apparently you didn't take the time to read all that I've said.
Everything you wrote is covered in my post.
Peace won't exist when humans are dead, since
humans invented peace and it only exists when there
is a human that will make it exist. Just like there can
be a colour that fits fr33noob's tastes, but if the fr33noob
in question is dead and does not exist, there is no colour
that fits his tastes.

Having emotion and self-awareness does not cover what?
Earth is alive? Earth itself is not alive, but the organisms
that inhabit the planet are alive.

If you say that you see a tree in the forest when you
think peace is to come when all humans are eliminated,
then you probably do not realise that us humans are the
forest and peace is a tree. We say what peace is.
It is just a notion that needs humans for itself to exist.
What you see is nothing, since there is no forest,
there's neither trees in it.




laugh

this is just a classic example of what i said above. we inveted it therefore it is our own?? did you ever figure that we inveted the word peace and peace is actualy a state of something that already exists?

and just because you cant comprehand the fact that the earth is not alive doesn't mean it isn't, the earth is a complex giant system that harbour life, the life is created by the things on it such as water,minerals and so forth, and as a whole it is alive...and to this system we are the virus if you will.
Your body harbours a simalar system by the way. just because you canot comprehand it on a level you see fit does not negate the fact it may be alive.
in our bodies viruses have no emotion or conceisnes BUT they are considerd to still be alive.

you are just a classic example of someone who sees no less then the threshold beyong his fingers... laugh

Last edited by fr33noob at 1:39 pm, Mar 17 2010

________________
User Posted Image
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
User Posted Image
user avatar
2nd wave MU user
 Member

1:42 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 7784


So would you say that this forum is alive
since us living beings write on it?
It certainly does not show any signs of its
own life besides ours.
Indeed it is not alive. It just simulates our lives,
just like earth does the life of things that inhabit it.

Quote from fr33noob
did you ever figure that we inveted the word peace and peace is actualy a state of something that already exists?

That too, is answered in the beginning.
We may have the the settings that we could call peace,
but there is no such state in nature as peace by default.
By logic that peace would exist as a setting in nature on
its own would also mean that everything we ever invent
exists in the nature in its own if it can exist after we invent
it. Let's say that sandbananacyst syndrome, that I now
made up is something that two male friends who date a
girl named Kate and Ashley have. It requires two men
who are friends and date girls named Kate and Ashley.
This setting is completely possible in nature on its own
before sandbananacyst syndrome, but that does not mean
that sandbananacyst syndrome exists in nature without
me making it up.

Post #364364 - Reply to (#364359) by fr33noob
user avatar
 Moderator

1:49 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 9026


Quote from fr33noob
this is just a classic example of what i said above. we inveted it therefore it is our own?? did you ever figure that we inveted the word peace and peace is actualy a state of something that already exists?

He's not talking about words, he's talking about concepts. A concept can not exist without acknowledgement. Let's just assume we're the only beings around with awareness of our surroundings, then that would mean we would be the only beings able to acknowledge the HUMAN-MADE concept of peace. This is about acknowledgement, not some observation of abstract data.

Observation = "Hmm, apparently, a planet without humans would be peaceful."

Who makes the observation? We. Humans. No humans, no acknowledgement
of anything. There's no one to say "there is peace" or "there is no peace".

________________
source: animenewsnetwork

Join SRoMU Scanlations or visit #SRoMU at IRCHighWay.
Post #364365 - Reply to (#364362) by Mamsmilk
user avatar
0n3 Winged
Member

1:58 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 603


Quote from Mamsmilk
So would you say that this forum is alive
since us living beings write on it?
It certainly does not show any signs of its
own life besides ours.
Indeed it is not alive. It just simulates our lives,
just like earth does the life of things that inhabit it.

Quote from fr33noob
did you ever figure that we inveted the word peace and peace is actualy a state of something that already exists?

That too, is answered in the beginning.
We may have the the settings that we could call peace,
but there is no such state in nature as peace by default.
By logic that peace would exist as a setting in nature on
its own would also mean that everything we ever invent
exists in the nature in its own if it can exist after we invent
it. Let's say that sandbananacyst syndrome, that I now
made up is something that two male friends who date a
girl named Kate and Ashley have. It requires two men
who are friends and date girls named Kate and Ashley.
This setting is completely possible in nature on its own
before sandbananacyst syndrome, but that does not mean
that sandbananacyst syndrome exists in nature without
me making it up.


no there are no sings or evidence of things that create life on the forum. (moving, bilogical enteties)
your saying nature can not have peace but it is only our making since we are alive? there are many things we invent, alot of words with meaning and alot of these words are meanings for things that aready exist peace is one of them, i think you need to beter understand the word to realise that peace is not just something that happens between humans alone, just because we understand what it means and the other doesn't this does not give fact to it not existing in the realm without the other. peace is not HUMAN plus HUMAN = friends, come on man, its about the co-existence of something without dire conflict. you think because we are the only cause of dire conflict therefore if we disapear there is no such thing as peace? what exzactly do you think? we are the ultimate sense and all this terms we create are our own? this universe was here long before us, we didn't create we are a part of it. peace is apart of the eco system.

this can happen with no human beings just because we are not there to forsee it doesn't mean it wont be there. you've got a harder head than a rock, try to understand the ground level of what i am implying.

Quote from Dr. Love
Quote from fr33noob
this is just a classic example of what i said above. we inveted it therefore it is our own?? did you ever figure that we inveted the word peace and peace is actualy a state of something that already exists?

He's not talking about words, he's talking about concepts. A concept can not exist without acknowledgement. Let's just assume we're the only beings around with awareness of our surroundings, then that would mean we would be the only beings able to acknowledge the HUMAN-MADE concept of peace. This is about acknowledgement, not some observation of abstract data.

Observation = "Hmm, apparently, a planet without humans would be peaceful."

Who makes the observation? We. Humans. No humans, no acknowledgement
of anything. There's no one to say "there is peace" or "there is no peace".




hey hey confused then it would exists without humans? then don't say it won't if not?

just try to understand the basic concept here.

Last edited by Dr. Love at 2:17 pm, Mar 17 2010

________________
User Posted Image
I believe in letting people do as they wish, as do I myself. Sometimes, of course, what I wish to do is kill them and they do not wish to die. This gives life interest.
User Posted Image
Post #364368
Member

2:05 pm, Mar 17 2010
Posts: 165


for each moment of peace we ever acquire in life as humans/animals/other life-forms, there will always be someone or something that will have to suffer or get the less-fulfilling deal.

Think about it, we have peace when we eat after a brief moment of hunger, and then you have someone perhaps a few feet away or even countries away, who, for you to eat your food will be starving.

Also, let's take into account that for some people there is a heaven and hell, and it is believed that in heaven they will have a forever sense of peace, but how can we have complete peace when just on the other side or wherever it may be, there are people being tortured in hell.

There is NO such thing as peace, like most people have said, we created the idea of peace, it's a nice thought, but it is not a reality, besides if peace truly was as easy as people make it out to be, then wouldn't earth have found peace by now? why has it taken this long for humans to find a way to bring peace? and then look there, 'bring' - peace is brought over, given, it is not something to be found, there is no human without a small bad side to them, but then bad is also something we created ourselves.

we might as well just live our lives as it is, and and carry on the way we are now, after all, one day the earth will have to be destroyed - and then, what is the point of achieving peace? death doesn't contain peace either you know.

Pages (8) [ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 Last ] Next
You must be registered to post!