Quote from shaggievara

I think a revolution would be more likely to happen first.

Revolutions are civil wars.They're just called that if they succeed.

A civil war can be a revolution, a revolution does not have to be from a civil war.

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Quote from DarkOptik

So your entire point about the current economy is that it's going to go through a cycle worse than even the Great Depression. Right. Feel free to believe that.

I do believe that, based on research, numbers, and data. Feel free to disagree, I honestly don't care.

Quote from DarkOptik

As for your comment that that a breakdown in the economy can lead to a breakdown of law and order...uh...no? Again, did you see that happening in the Great Depression? No. You seem to operate on the understanding that the central government wields no power over the people, which I think is a disturbingly bad assumption to make. You actually think the common person has any power to overthrow the national entity? No.

I gave an example of just that happening. When an economy collapses in a bad enough way it damn well can lead to a breakdown of law and order.

Again, the Soviet Union imploded from within, as did many other countries. The Soviet Union is a prime example though because they were a superpower like US.

So do I think the common person has the power to overthrow a national entity? Absolutely, when there are enough of them.

Quote from DarkOptik

And actually, yes. That is what I'm saying about the South. You realize that the South is populated by some of the least educated, low level of standard of living states in the entire U.S. right? Obviously there's going to be a more degeneration in that case than if Katrina had hit the Northeast. Believe it or not, the South is not actually representative of the entire United States. Unbelievable right?

I don't even know why I'm responding to this one. You're a bigot, and if you think that New York wouldn't erupt in an orgy of violence if large numbers of homes were flooded, power went out, and there wasn't enough food to go around, then you're also an idiot. Many of the large population cities in the North are already full of crime and corruption.

Quote from DarkOptik

What? You tell me to read between the lines, and then proceed to say Europe gets taxed more. Make up your damn mind.

No, actually I told you most places in Europe get taxed less, not more. You'll also find a much larger percent of the tax money in Europe goes to the benefit of the people too.

Quote from DarkOptik

Obviously no government is clean. I don't think that in the slightest, and I don't expect you to. But you fail to realize that with all the SHIT our government has done, your rights haven't been infringed on in a notable way. What, is the government using the Patriot Act to intercept your phone calls to your girlfriend? Maybe, but why does that matter? Breach of privacy? Fuck, technically the phone companies are at fault too then, because they can listen on every single one of your phone calls if they like. And Google! Damn them, they could read all your emails. Microsoft too! Oh bloody hell, the internet companies can monitor what you're looking up on the web!

Eugenics? That's an issue I don't want to go in because that's really something else all together.

You ignored most of the examples I posted, and responded only to the patriot act and Eugenics. I gave you good examples of our government trampling on the rights of people both in the past and in the present, and frankly there was far more I could have posted.

Eugenics is not something else altogether, it's relevant and showed how our government in the past stomped on the rights of its people - and it's far from the only time.

Keep in mind we're also talking about a situation where a government is in a state of emergency, trying to keep order. Our government has shown was it is capable of doing in a state of 'emergency'. Look up what we did to Japanese-Americans during WW2.

Quote from DarkOptik

And you know what's even more ridiculous? What you were first arguing:
"There's a real possibility that it could happen in a few years depending on how hard our economy crashes. "

And this is what you're saying now:
"The only thing I am claiming is that the economy is going to crash hard."

Let me break it down for you. I think the economy crashing is a sure thing. I don't think the civil war is a sure thing, I think it's a possibility.

The only thing I'm claiming for certain is the economy is going to crash. Beyond that, I don't know, but I don't discount the possibility that it could happen.

Quote from DarkOptik

Okay, I was supposed to infer that instead of riotry and chaos and anarchy I was supposed to think that you meant an organized group rebelling against the government. Thanks.

Not.

Organized revolt is a possibility - but even in in the event of a disorganized revolt, after our government begins to weaken the result will be new parties vying for power. From chaos, order inevitably arises, and if there is a political disagreement among rising systems you have your civil war.

Quote from DarkOptik

That our economy is going to implode into a state even worse than the Great Depression in 1929, and that it would cause such anarchy that our central government would be unable to control and therefore would manifest into an organized revolution that would eventually try to overthrow the government...

I think this is a possibility.

Quote from DarkOptik

so that we would be taxed less and have more freedom.

Let me elaborate.

Taxes are not a cause of rebellion now because most of us can get by. In the event of a major crash, there's not much money to go by, and if our government maintained tax rates in such a situation it could be a cause. The freedom issue depends on how our government reacts to destabilization. If it's reaction is to enact curfews, detain people, ect ect, then you have a problem.

In other words, oppression could be the result of destabilization. A government's attempt to preserve itself. Taxation is necessary for the government to maintain power, and in an economic crash the people are already feeling the pinch. They could easily be contributing factors to a revolution.

If it would happen, I think the trigger would be desperate people clashing with an over-taxing, freedom trampling government.

dude, the US has almost no taxes compared to the rest of the world. and the tax money that is collected goes into weaponry.
thas why the infrastructure is so shitty

also, the depression came beacause people bought stuff they couldnt efford, then they were unable to pay the banks back and the entire banking system broke down.
th government had to bail them out because if they didn't, nobody would have any money anymore, cos thats what happens if banks declare bankruptcy.

the problem is that people in this country think they can do whatever they want, without any consequences. we live above our income, buy all sorts of stuff no one needs, and spent unnecessary money.

this problem has been going on since carter, who gave the US the choice between ideals and material gain before they went into the middle east back then.

being patriotic would mean to think of what you could do to help your country, not criticize your government and stop people who are trying to bring reforms and modernisation about from doing that.

what we really need is to stop those selfpretentious hicks from filibustering every progress.

how, in any way, can health care hurt us 😕 ?? that makes no sense whatsoever

and by the way, NEW YORK has a lower crime rate than most other places.
who cares that the ex governor had sex with a hooker, give the poor politicians some slack and privacy they have to deal with more stress than you can imagine

Quote from RideTheWalrus

Let me break it down for you. I think the economy crashing is a sure thing. I don't think the civil war is a sure thing, I think it's a possibility.

Can you please show me the data where it says that another economic crash is a sure thing? I'm guessing you listen to a lot of Gerald Celente. Also, do you think the recovery that we are beginning to experience is just fake?

.

venusinfurs
ridethewalrus

one number that i didn't see thrown out there was the national debt... thats somthing that bears little relation to the is counterpoint in the great depression... i would post a link but i dont know how and just woke up google national debt/ great depression national debt... the numbers are monstrouly different...

something else that could set off a civil war is a nuke set off in the mid west where most of the crops are grown

Quote from nonaware

something else that could set off a civil war is a nuke set off in the mid west where most of the crops are grown

A nuke would unite the country, not destroy it. A country becomes more unified when attacked by others. Times would be tough, but people would become more patriotic, not less.

Quote from Wonderland

Quote from nonaware

something else that could set off a civil war is a nuke set off in the mid west where most of the crops are grown

A nuke would unite the country, not destroy it. A country becomes more unified when attacked by others. Times would be tough, but people would become more patriotic, not less.

You're assuming that the nuke is foreign.

No government in their right mind would nuke themselves. There is no hypothetical there.

Quote from Wonderland

No government in their right mind would nuke themselves. There is no hypothetical there.

Doesn't have to be intentional.

I highly doubt a civil war is gonna break out due to the state of the economy. A civil war would definitely lead the economy in a worse state as no country would want to trade with the U.S. Tax in the United States is also very low compared to other countries... Most of the taxes is collected from the rich people who pay a bigger slice of their income than the poorer folks out there (people who are too poor don't even need to pay tax out of their income).

Quote from The Guy

next tuesday.
You yanks better stockpile on guns and ammo before it gets going.
Washington will pass a new law stating you can only buy guns and ammo in specialty retail.
Outraged that they can't buy guns and ammo at wallmart anymore, all the people in the southern states and the midwest will rise against the oppresion of their right to "bare" arms, illustrating the state of the educational system and results of inbreeding.
All intelligent people will ignore them since all of those people are retarded, but quickly will realise that a moron with a gun is much more hazardous than expected.
The country will be swept in a wave of violence and rising gun sales.
The violence rages on for maybe two or three years.
Then, finally, the US government will see that allowing any idiot to own a gun isn't all that good an' idea, revoking the second amendment and outlawing personal firearms to all civilians.

At least that's as likely a scenario as any you can think of really.
Civil war in the US is very unlikely.

The Guy's theory of gun owners rising up due to the anti-gun liberals' new laws is the most likely reason for a civil war. If they were to take the ban of guns even further, like banning semi-automatic rifles also, then a civil war might be inevitable (seeing as I know people who really will rise up to defend their hobby). The comments about idiots owning guns is uncalled for though. My friend makes sure the person who's handling his guns receive proper instructions and safety procedures before letting him/her use it.

an attack would unite the country... but you missed the point about the nuke being set off in the bread basket of the country... most of the us grown food is produced by the farms in thoese states... while granted a single nuke would not take out multipe states it would hurt the ability to grow food forcing more food to be imported at a higher price...

food and water supplies are great targets for attacks not only do they effect the morale of a country they also attack the back bone... the supplies of the people to surive...

Quote from RideTheWalrus

I do believe that, based on research, numbers, and data. Feel free to disagree, I honestly don't care.

What research, numbers, and data? Right now many indicators are that the economy is indeed not recovering, however, it is not getting significantly worse. The Job numbers in what should have been an absolutely dismal February I think were positively glowing - and I am NOT being sarcastic.

Quote from RideTheWalrus

Again, the Soviet Union imploded from within, as did many other countries. The Soviet Union is a prime example though because they were a superpower like US.

So do I think the common person has the power to overthrow a national entity? Absolutely, when there are enough of them.

There were so many other problems plagueing the Soviet Union that you can't even BEGIN to compare the two. The fundamental problem with a communist government is that there is little motivation for entrepreneurs to invest and build a business, making it much more difficult for a struggling economy to rebuild. Furthermore, if you are provided for completely, why bother working beyond one's limits? While Americans have a reputation for being lazy, slobs, the reality is that outside of our schools, Americans typically rank among the best workers in the world.

Furthermore, the Soviet regime chose to do a dramatic restructuring to address the aforementioned problem. It failed because you are trying to eliminate a problem that spans generations in a matter of years when the reality is that it should take decades. Their approach ultimately failed and the GOVERNMENT, not the people, disbanded the regime.

Quote from RideTheWalrus

I don't even know why I'm responding to this one. You're a bigot, and if you think that New York wouldn't erupt in an orgy of violence if large numbers of homes were flooded, power went out, and there wasn't enough food to go around, then you're also an idiot. Many of the large population cities in the North are already full of crime and corruption.

Optik was completely off base saying that about the South. New York FAMOUSLY had a blackout the proceded to cause massive looting and riots. The difference is that in much of the South - and particularly Texas - looters face a strong deterrent of a heavily armed region. Katrina was an example of a failing and infamously corrupt state government proceding to forget that they are constitutionally OBLIGATED to ask for federal assistance if they so desire such aid. The fed can't just march in.

And I also completely agree with Walrus about corruption. Look at New Jersey and then tell me that you SERIOUSLY think that the North is more competent than the South... Honestly...

Quote from RideTheWalrus

No, actually I told you most places in Europe get taxed less, not more. You'll also find a much larger percent of the tax money in Europe goes to the benefit of the people too.

Europe is almost universally taxed more than the US... If you discount Health Insurance costs for the US. Private insurance does take a large portion of wages as it currently stands. Fun fact about medicine, and overall health care statistics. For the top three quartiles, the US has the best health care in the world. For the bottom quartile, we don't. Actually the 85% of American's with health insurance have the best health care in the world. But... that is another topic.

Quote from RideTheWalrus

You ignored most of the examples I posted, and responded only to the patriot act and Eugenics. I gave you good examples of our government trampling on the rights of people both in the past and in the present, and frankly there was far more I could have posted.

Eugenics is not something else altogether, it's relevant and showed how our government in the past stomped on the rights of its people - and it's far from the only time.

Keep in mind we're also talking about a situation where a government is in a state of emergency, trying to keep order. Our government has shown was it is capable of doing in a state of 'emergency'. Look up what we did to Japanese-Americans during WW2.

//WW2 and present-times are so far seperated in terms of civil-rights in America. Believe me, if they had planned on ever doing such a broad and constitutionally illegal act again, it would have happened immediately following 9/11... But really, it isn't even plausible, especially in a nation that is willing to claim that perfume can infringe on a person's rights due to the ADA.

Quote from RideTheWalrus

Let me break it down for you. I think the economy crashing is a sure thing. I don't think the civil war is a sure thing, I think it's a possibility.

The only thing I'm claiming for certain is the economy is going to crash. Beyond that, I don't know, but I don't discount the possibility that it could happen.

No way. Period. I don't like the Obama administration, nor the Stimulus DISASTER - seriously... INFRASTRUCTURE!? You are going to rebuild the economy by paying DAY LABORERS minimum wages TEMPORARILY!? REALLY!?!?!?-, nor the current Health Care Reform bill, but we have been through worse much more recently than WW2 and the great depression. The Carter administration is largely considered the worst administration of all time because they failed to handle inflation, a choking economy and an international crisis epicly. Afterwards Reagan came and what happened? We got the most prosperous twenty-five years in American history. What happened in that administration largely resembles what is happening today, and America recovered. (Hell, it was much worse. Try recovering an economy without OIL)

Holy shit... so is a thread explosion of meaningful topics... and I don't have the time to actually think before posting....

Well I don't think is going to happen anytime soon... UNLESS a government official reveals to the public that the September 11 attacks where staged, the moon landing didn't happen, the mets won the world series, Monster trucks become illegal, and beer is banned.

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