The Carter administration is largely considered the worst administration of all time because they failed to handle inflation, a choking economy and an international crisis epicly. Afterwards Reagan came and what happened? We got the most prosperous twenty-five years in American history. What happened in that administration largely resembles what is happening today, and America recovered. (Hell, it was much worse. Try recovering an economy without OIL)

carter said that he wanted to be president who did what the people wanted, not some self loving retard who did what they thought was right like bush

and the oil is what got America its problems, because the PEOPLE decided that they would rather drive around in their cars and go into the middle east to take the resources of the people there than be a bit modest and maybe use a bike or public transportation for a bit.
and now we are stuck in Afghanistan because of the politics to support the mujaheddin and Taliban radical's. we even supported Saddam, even though we knew what he was. just so our oil interests could be met.
the only reason Reagan could actually do what he did was because carter started it, he just earned the results because it took a while for things to happen
reagan was an stupid actor who shouldn't have been president in the first place.

Quote from Alaven

The Carter administration is largely considered the worst administration of all time because they failed to handle inflation, a choking economy and an international crisis epicly.

Whoa. What?
The worst administrations are clearly G.W.Bush, Truman, and Nixon. Lets be real here.

Carter's failures seem exaggerated cause they all happened during his last year of presidency. He failed to fix the stagnation that Gerald Ford put America in. His international relations with panama made his seem weak, so when he failed at his rescue attempt in Iran it got much worse. Sure, he didn't do much, but the worst? Come on.

[color=#ff0000]"“That's the difference between me and the rest of the world!
Happiness isn't good enough for me! I demand euphoria!” "[/color]

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Quote from DarkOptik

It's precisely because of cutting tax rates by the Republicans that we first began to get into this mess, while at the same time spending more and more money on programs. Do you realize what kind of tax rates they have in Europe compared to us? Do you see the entirety of Europe burning buildings and overthrowing their government?

I believe European countries mostly have lower tax than USA. Here it is 20% ish income tax, people from America have told me they are being taxed 30-50%. It gets invested back better, also China does not own most of our currency.
Paris riots had burning.

Quote from DarkOptik

And actually, yes. That is what I'm saying about the South. You realize that the South is populated by some of the least educated, low level of standard of living states in the entire U.S. right? Obviously there's going to be a more degeneration in that case than if Katrina had hit the Northeast. Believe it or not, the South is not actually representative of the entire United States. Unbelievable right?

I can spot a bunch of grammar and punctuation mistakes in your posts without trying. Irony?
There are plenty of screw ups within the north, they are just disguised better because you are used to them.

Order would break down to an extent if money lost meaning. People would have no reason to work if money could not be used to exchange for goods and services. The only thing keeping a large demographic in line then would be the fear of being shot, still power to control them would greatly be lost.

No real civil war really, maybe in a century the union will break apart into separate countries and they will war with each other. There is really no reason for a state now to declare war on another though. A revolution is more likely perhaps, but not terrible so.

I believe European countries mostly have lower tax than USA. Here it is 20% ish income tax, people from America have told me they are being taxed 30-50%. It gets invested back better, also China does not own most of our currency.
Paris riots had burning.

the tax system is completly different in the US from the one in Europe.
And which taxes are 30-50%? Taxes in general? That's another question.
In Germany they have taxes on using mobile phones, how is that less from taxes in the States?
And what has that to do with currencies, the only way to compare is by BIP.

Btw I find this topic really funny. It matched my oppinion that the only reason for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, were to maintain the status quo of not having a riot (But personally i wont compare that to Paris, because there they cut of their governments electricity if they behave to stupid).

Give a man fire, and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.

I don't see it in the near future. I think that with the way things are, a civil war can be avoided. So as of now, never.

Lalala~

Thats likely never going to happend cuz, As we all know, thats a thing of the past in most countries. And theres another reason and more important if i must say.WAR TECHNOLOGY, in the past people used to be able to have almost the same thing as their gov. or were able to get them... any country's army can scare anybody that wants to start a civil war ^^. Then again... Any country's Army CAN start a war 😛 . Lets just hope that never happends in USA.

@Alaven, and a bunch of other people
We lost 36,000 jobs last February, I would not call that positively glowing. Compared to the rate we have been losing jobs it is less of a loss on a graph, but only if you take it at face value.

The 'recovery' we're seeing is not a real recovery, it's an artificial recovery, a measure of increased government spending and stimulus. It is our government spending what it does not have, under the misguided notion that borrowing and spending stimulates and improves the economy (Keynesian Economics).

When the government borrows money and uses that money to create public stimulus jobs, of course you'll see more jobs - but that job growth is temporary, and when you have to pay back the money you borrowed you find yourself in a worse position than when you had started.

It is sort of like giving a shot of adrenaline to somebody who's exhausted and tired, then measuring their increased energy as 'improvement'. It comes at a cost, and they're going to crash all the harder when it wears off. What they really needed to do was sleep - and what we really need to do is stop spending what we do not have and start exporting more than we import.

What is most alarming about our present situation is that despite using temporary, borrowed money to create temporary jobs, we're still measuring increased job losses and foreclosures.

This is a graph of our national debt, through 2009:
[img]http://preparetovote.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/national-debt-chart1.png[/img]

The vast majority of dollars in circulation are not even in the United States. They're held by foreign interests.

Inflation is our response to this. Inflation screws over all of our debtors (those who have been purchasing dollars), by devaluing the dollar. This eases the burden on those who are borrowing, and screws over those who are saving (China, Japan, ect.). It is comparable to a form of theft.

Example:
There are 1000 dollars in circulation, China owns 500 of those dollars. The US government prints out 1000 more dollars. What has happened? We screwed China over, their dollars are worth half as much as before.

This graph of our money supply should give you an idea as to the magnitude of how many dollars we are printing out:
http://www.chartingstocks.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/money-supply.gif

When we're screwing our debtors over like this it's no wonder they're pulling out of the dollar.

Most of this inflation has not hit the streets yet, but the common man is eventually going to have to eat this radical devaluation of the dollar. Do you think job wages will rise to match? Not a chance.

Even more damning is the fact that the government paid more in support last year than it collected in tax revenue. That, is clearly not sustainable, and it's only going to get worse. How are we supposed to keep paying for these hordes of unemployed people while our debt continues to mount and our economy is shrinking due to job loss? What's going to happen when we can no longer pay these people, and they find themselves out on the street?

I agree with your points on the Soviet Union to a degree. I think communism is an inferior system, but it's worth noting that we're no longer the same country we used to be. Approx 40% of our GDP is government controlled, and if health care goes through the government will actually exceed the private sector. Hardly a model of economic freedom.

As for taxes, when you compare us to Europe you should factor indirect taxation into the picture. The taxes we pay depends on where we live, as we pay both federal and state taxes. Our direct taxes also include property, sales, and other forms of tax, but what we pay to our government is not limited to this.

Tax increases are very unpopular (unless a politician targets 'the rich'). So lately when our government wants more revenue they don't even bother taxing the people. They just print it out and spend it. This devalues the dollar and effectively amounts to the same thing as a flat tax. It's an underhanded method to increase the burden on the people without the people realizing they're being taxed, and it brings less of a political shit-storm in its wake.

somewhat unrelated note: America = a continent made of sub-continents North, Central and South America

United States of America = the country that stole the word america for them but is not offically called america in any way.

to further illustrate this: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29g57XTYgLE[/url]

I may not be a canadian, but the song makes a pretty good point.

Quote from Streywolf

and the oil is what got America its problems, because the PEOPLE decided that they would rather drive around in their cars and go into the middle east to take the resources of the people there than be a bit modest and maybe use a bike or public transportation for a bit.
and now we are stuck in Afghanistan because of the politics to support the mujaheddin and Taliban radical's. we even supported Saddam, even though we knew what he was. just so our oil interests could be met.
the only reason Reagan could actually do what he did was because carter started it, he just earned the results because it took a while for things to happen
reagan was an stupid actor who shouldn't have been president in the first place.

I live twelve miles from work. My job is NOT on a public transportation route. Could I bike there? Certainly. But could I take the bus there? Hell no. My father works fifty miles away from his house. There is not an adequate public transportation infrastructure in place. The fact of the matter is that in much of the South there simply isn't the public transportation infrastructure. I would gladly take the bus or subway if it mean that I didn't have to pay $50 in gas every week.

Carter did finally act to resolve the economic crisis in his final year in office - but it was not a crisis that began that year. It certainly did reach a critical point then... But, I still hesitate to give him much credit simply due to his vast incompetence when dealing with the energy crisis and Iran.

Quote from Calíbre

Whoa. What?
The worst administrations are clearly G.W.Bush, Truman, and Nixon. Lets be real here.

Carter's failures seem exaggerated cause they all happened during his last year of presidency. He failed to fix the stagnation that Gerald Ford put America in. His international relations with panama made his seem weak, so when he failed at his rescue attempt in Iran it got much worse. Sure, he didn't do much, but the worst? Come on.

I don't consider Bush to be a successful president, but I must give him credit in his response to 9/11. The immediate months following 9/11, while not redeeming his presidency, seperates him from Carter.

Nixon was awful. I don't dispute that. But... Once again, you need to look at what he actually accomplished. He took us out of Vietnam - whether or not that was the right decision I will leave you to decide. But, he did what much of the nation demanded of him and ended US involvement. There is at least some margin of success.

Honestly, I would agree with you on Truman. I hate everything about that presidency, but either Carter or GW is considered the worst presidency typically.

@Walrus.
February under the given weather conditions that SHOULD have obliterated retail completely, would not have seen growth under a NORMAL economy. The fact that it only lost 36,000 honestly is quite good news. Even the Obama administration was surprised by this fact given that prior to the announcement they told the press to expect terrible numbers due to the horrible weather.

You give too much credit to the stimulus... And that is really all I am going to say on that matter.

But the vast majority of debt owed by the government is owed to the citizens of the US. It is NOT international debt but public debt. I understand that the percentage of international debt is growing... but it really is not something to be overly alarmed about. That is not to say it should be ignored - and I don't think the US government has any business being 40% of the US economy.

As for your Monetary Base graph... I have to question the source. I couldn't find a graph with similar data anywhere. And judging from the rest of the website, I really just don't think that it can reliably be used.

As for taxes in the EU v the US. You really need to consider other taxes as well. For example, the taxes on gasoline is substantially higher in the EU (7.5 USD for a gallon of gas in germany v 2.75 in the US).

Quote from Calíbre

Quote from Alaven

The Carter administration is largely considered the worst administration of all time because they failed to handle inflation, a choking economy and an international crisis epicly.

Whoa. What?
The worst administrations are clearly G.W.Bush, Truman, and Nixon. Lets be real here.

Carter's failures seem exaggerated cause they all happened during his last year of presidency. He failed to fix the stagnation that Gerald Ford put America in. His international relations with panama made his seem weak, so when he failed at his rescue attempt in Iran it got much worse. Sure, he didn't do much, but the worst? Come on.

Time magazine have a theory that G.W. Bush will be considered the GREATEST president of the U.S.A. in less than 20-30 years from now.

In retrospective, some of our Greatest presidents were hated back in their days. The ever so famous honest Abe was considered a tyrant back then for he was the first one to suspend right of speech during the times of war and imprison political opponents.[Essentially creating a precedence for political prisoners]. Who knows, Bush might be hailed as the first Freedom Fighter or the Protector.......depending on how this mess will go

Gay book discussion thread

Quote from you_no_see_me_

this is not about cannibalism...please get back on topic

Quote from Toto

I think it is exactly the topic. I see nothing wrong.

Reeeeaaaallly doubt it.
Not for a looong time anyways.

[img]https://www.yourgimmick.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/banner1.jpg[/img]

Quote from BoxBox

Time magazine have a theory that G.W. Bush will be considered the GREATEST president of the U.S.A. in less than 20-30 years from now.

In retrospective, some of our Greatest presidents were hated back in their days. The ever so famous honest Abe was considered a tyrant back then for he was the first one to suspend right of speech during the times of war and imprison political opponents.[Essentially creating a precedence for political prisoners]. Who knows, Bush might be hailed as the first Freedom Fighter or the Protector.......depending on how this mess will go

Did they say why that is? I really just dont understand the whole freedom fighter/ protector reference.What are they saying Bush will be remembered positively for, because I honestly cant think of anything.

Quote from bine

I believe European countries mostly have lower tax than USA. Here it is 20% ish income tax, people from America have told me they are being taxed 30-50%. It gets invested back better, also China does not own most of our currency.
Paris riots had burning.

the tax system is completly different in the US from the one in Europe.
And which taxes are 30-50%? Taxes in general? That's another question.
In Germany they have taxes on using mobile phones, how is that less from taxes in the States?
And what has that to do with currencies, the only way to compare is by BIP.

The 30-50% is income tax as far as I was told by a fair few Americans, a programmer there was especially dissatisfied. Basically it seems they just tax the middle class more to try to solve their debts.
Currency comes into it because due to the way they trade, they are indebted to China, China owns so much of the American money that China would sink money into America to stop the economy going under (because the money would lose value & the debts could not be paid). They could just make more currency to try solve that, but then they dam themselves due to the money holding no relevant real world value.
Yeah, they do have a different system. The tax system is one there that even the legal professionals have a hard time comprehending as I am aware; overly complicated.

Quote from bine

Btw I find this topic really funny. It matched my oppinion that the only reason for the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, were to maintain the status quo of not having a riot (But personally i wont compare that to Paris, because there they cut of their governments electricity if they behave to stupid).

I mentioned the Paris riots to cite something related to burning. I could pick other times in Europe order has diminished.
The wars, besides for obvious economical reasons, America's vehement interest in spreading it's own form of democracy etc were to detract the public from problems at home. The average person at the time probably got a blitz of news about Iraq etc and their interests were swayed towards "bring our soldiers home". Distract everybody from problems at home by creating a problem away from home for the media etc to focus on.

err i dont really know all that much buuut... those that are talking about america running out of money and stuff... isnt there that place that stockpiles gold so if we ever run out of money we can just sell it... or something...