Imo, if there's no visible penetration, it's not porn.

True
Smut is just a higher level of Ecchi and it has more of a story than porn.
🤣

No, ecchi is pervier, sillier or even humiliating ways to manipulate the female body while smut is just normal sex. However, there are definitely exceptions.

Quote from Gokuthegrate

Imo, if there's no visible penetration, it's not porn.

True
Smut is just a higher level of Ecchi and it has more of a story than porn.

Ecchi is the same as pornography (it's intention is to sexually excite the reader/viewer), without necessarily 18+ material (no hardcore sex).

Ecchi pretty much the same as porn. It's either just a way to read/watch porn without actually reading/watching it. If it makes you feel better of yourself that way, then ok, why not? Or, you just happen to like the kinda porn where "you can't see, but you sorta can, and when you look closely...", and that's same as reading/watching porn. You could as well say you like porn, as you say, you like ecchi. It's perversion, nothing else.

Smut is erotic literature. The term can mean "pornography", but "smut" manga are erotic literature.

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Wow... I feel like there might be a little bit of a bias in this thread... girls are very sensitive of being accused of reading porn. For those that admit it, I applaud you.

I question how fair it is to judge this until you really know what porn is. Softcore porn is very different than what most of you imagine as porn. Many times it is the same amount of nudity that is shown in smut. Porn definitely can have a plot, lack of plot is not what defines porn. Porn is anything meant to be erotic that includes nudity. It just so happens that deep relationships and love gets most girls a lot hotter than random raunchy sex.
Finally, don't be embarrassed if it counts as porn, theres nothing wrong with porn, porn is just for pleasure, and anyone worth his or her salt isnt ashamed in the slightest of viewing porn or smut 😀

As I said, pornography's intention is to sexually arouse the reader/viewer. It is different from erotica. Erotica is work of art, which includes pornography, as well as painting, sculpture, movie, literature. There's a difference. But ecchi is pretty much like porn, no matter how softcore. It doesn't matter how hard it is. Porn is porn. Besides, "ecchi" means sexy/naughty/sexual intercourse.

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Quote from 狂気

As I said, pornography's intention is to sexually arouse the reader/viewer. It is different from erotica. Erotica is work of art, which includes pornography, as well as painting, sculpture, movie, literature. There's a difference. But ecchi is pretty much like porn, no matter how softcore. It doesn't matter how hard it is. Porn is porn. Besides, "ecchi" means sexy/naughty/sexual intercourse.

how can you say ecchi is different than smut? unless you can give me a real difference between the two, then i would put them in the same category, which youve already chosen to be porn.

According to most dictionaries "pornography" is synonymous with "smut". An "erotic literature" can just as easily arouse it's reader. The degree of explicit imagery and the intention may differ, but I think they are all very similar.

When it comes to erotic literature, whether it's the author's intention to sexually arouse it's reader or not, mainly varies on it's readers interpretation.

Let's take a very controversial and one of my favorite books of all time: Lady Chatterley's Lover. The explicit passages definitely got my heart racing and my cheeks red. Was it the intention? Perhaps, but perhaps not. It is somewhat significant to be included because of the story's theme. However, did it really have to be that explicit? Couldn't Lawrence have written those passages in a more tasteful way?

But what do I know, this is just all my personal opinion. I find it hilarious that some of you people are so vehement about this topic.

It's hard not to argue this because most "erotic" images/literature focus on sexual fetishes, such as BDSM. What do you exactly feel when you look at an erotic image or when you read an erotic literature? Do you just say, "Oh, that's nice." and go on your merry way? Tasteful of not, they are still sexual in nature, but how you interpret them, I guess, is up to you.

Smut can be counted as porn, depending on how you look at it. If you prefer it to be the mature part of love, to express two character's feelings for each other great. If you find it turning you on, great. It just depends on your point of view.

Edit: Masami said what i basically said, right before me >=(

Quote from MasamiAkane

But what do I know, this is just all my personal opinion. I find it hilarious that some of you people are so vehement about this topic.

I just get mished whenever people take a holier than thou attitude and put down down sex in favor of love. I mean ideally, theyre all about the same thing... except for the rape in smut... 😔

Does smut count as porn?

No. Cuz the cliches and sex gags disgust me even more than explicit porn.

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Cuz the cliches and sex gags disgust me even more than explicit porn.

What she said. Very true. 🤣

Quote from TheRedSpade

how can you say ecchi is different than smut? unless you can give me a real difference between the two, then i would put them in the same category, which youve already chosen to be porn.

A dictionary says:

the depiction of erotic behavior (as in pictures or writing) intended to cause sexual excitement
material (as books or a photograph) that depicts erotic behavior and is intended to cause sexual excitement

Smut means "obscenity" or "pornography"
Ecchi means "indecent", "lewd", "naughty", "sexy" or "sexual intercourse"

The meaning of these two terms are what they are. But ecchi manga's, as it's called in English, purpose is to sexually excite the reader. These are English labeling. They mix up and are used however. There are some manga that are called "ecchi", that should be. A little "fan service" doesn't mean that that's the point of the manga.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those mangas. What I'm saying is, that it's stupid when some people read that kinda manga and act like porn is "bad", and ecchi is somehow morally higher - It's purpose is to sexually arouse you, there are differences, but they're the same.

Some "smut manga" are the same. It's the labeling that doesn't work.
Erotic literature is a genre of literature - it's art. Though, it's pretty easy to publish a book, make a film, make music, these days. People don't care anymore for the actual art in them.

But my point is, that if you like ecchi, and escpecially if you're someone who pretty much shouts that to the whole world, you should know that it's no different to say you like porn. I'm not saying if it's good or bad - that's up to you to decide.

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Lol, Ecchi is not porn.

It's just an overused manga technique to lure one-track guys (usually younger than 15-years-old...) I have pity for the guys who actually get aroused by that... Ecchi is more meant to be visually pleasing, you can kind of consider it like eyecandy. It's the same as guys checking out girls on a hot summer day. They appreciate the view, but it's not like they get aroused. Ecchi's purpose is NOT to arouse. Unless they use Ecchi in some psychologically arousing way, but that rarely happens.

That being said, I can absolutely not stand Ecchi in my anime. 🤢 Unless it's done veeery subtly. I tolerate Ecchi in my manga though, but it gets more on my nerves when it's used without any purpose at all (read: Tenjou Tenge).

Anyways, this topic is about smut being porn which it's not.

Though it's up to each individual where their limits lie.

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I'm not going to repeat myself again and again just because people don't bother reading what I say before giving their opinions.

Far-off places with sweet sounding names.

Quote from 狂気

I'm not going to repeat myself again and again just because people doesn't bother reading what I say before giving their options.

I gave you my option? I think you meant opinion. And don't worry, I read every post to the last letter, it's my job here.

If you are so confident in your theory, please give me an example of an Ecchi ("Porn") manga with some actual pages to back up your point.

This is really a subjective matter. If I recall correctly, you don't like Ecchi, so it doesn't surprise me that you think of it that way.

Also Hentai can mean "metamorphosis" or "abnormality", besides the common "sexual perversion" meaning. So, I don't see your point of trying to clarify the meanings of Ecchi and Smut.

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