Well, what's the point of reading Japanese manga if you change everything?
This is why One Piece was destroyed by 4kids, because 4kids americanized the hell out of One Piece and screwed the entire series over.

So you say changing the meaning and context of the original work is a good thing?

It's like saying there's no pupose in the work being presented to another region unless you change everything to match because no one cares about the original source.

Rather ignorant of the world isn't it?

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But they have to think of the customers. That's what enterprises always do. And in this case, the customers are Americans who usually don't know anything about manga, and just view it as some kind of exotic comic.

It's only logical that they americanize it. I agree with Dubby. ;D

They are not interested in Japanese terms, at all. In fact, it would rather scare them away instead of luring them. Suddenly they see a word like "shinigami", that's like okay? o.O

You got to think commercial. xD And for the ones who want to keep it 'real', they go to publishing companies that don't americanize the manga. Problem solved?

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Why would someone buy a manga if they have no interest in it? Seems illogical to me. "I'm going to eat it" does sound bizarre, and if you have multiple people saying it, it's darn well freaky. A lot of japanese words can't be translated literally, so trying to explain things as best as possible is the best way to go IMO.

Quote from reanimated838uk

Why would someone buy a manga if they have no interest in it?

But that's just the thing. They're trying to get them interested by americanizing it. Expanding their customer base(?).

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Quote from reanimated838uk

Why would someone buy a manga if they have no interest in it?

But that's just the thing. They're trying to get them interested by americanizing it. Expanding their customer base(?).

And why is it that things need to be americanized? It's because people don't know about it right? Then should people not know about things simply because they don't know about it? Don't people even want to expand their knowledge base somehow?

I understand there's the whole localization factor, but it's because the society is so sheltered and rejects foreign concepts because it doesn't match its own ideals.

Shinigami doesn't have a direct translation to english as do most things related to religion of any sort because they never existed in english terms before. Soul reaper isn't that far off but having the shinigami term would've been just fine as people can grow accustom to the term and its meanings and actually learn about the world they live in for once.

Japanese manga are made for the Japanese target audience in mind, so there's plenty of things meant for them for sure that won't make much sense to people without that knowledge.
But should people continue to ignore it and subsitute their own reality as they see fit forever? It's great to help the people read the jokes, but then as things go on it's not going to work forever as the content/references goes far off from the easily changed jokes.
When things take on a more central role to the series and there's no way around it other than to change the story entirely just to satisfy the ignorant locals?

It's perfectly reasonable to localize foreign work to match your new audience but this is manga and there is space to include footnotes without compromising the presentation. Manga has the space on paper where anime doesn't on screen. Even if it's just all gathered into a few pages at the end of volume would've been more informative than ignoring them altogether and change their meanings.

I'm not saying localization is bad, but it shouldn't get to the point where things are simply ignored and substituted with an english version that doesn't match the original intention.

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Quote from greydrak

And why is it that things need to be americanized?

More customers => 😕 => PROFIT! xD I'm not defending it or anything, I'm just saying that money makes the world go 'round, and I don't think they really care about cultural things, etc.

I actually agree with you, but people aren't really interested in Japanese backstory, etc.

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Quote from reanimated838uk

Why would someone buy a manga if they have no interest in it? Seems illogical to me. "I'm going to eat it" does sound bizarre, and if you have multiple people saying it, it's darn well freaky. A lot of japanese words can't be translated literally, so trying to explain things as best as possible is the best way to go IMO. I already said it sounded weird out of context. It seemed natural to me when I first read it.

Dr. Love's so smart~ ;D It's like we think alike. I knew it when I first saw you.

cough but srsly, YOU only think One Piece was butchered because you're comparing it to the original Japanese. EVERYTHING is bad if you compare it to something. Were the American kiddies conplaining at OP? No because they didn't care. 4kids is called 4kids thus they have to edit it to fit their target audience. And they are KIDS in this case. Maybe 4kids shouldn't have licensed OP seeing as it isn't aimed at kids, but it's good money for them - do you think they care what you, who's probably <10% of their audience, think?

Kids don't care as long as they get their Naruto, Bleach, OP and Inuyasha.

Same case with manga. No one cares about Japanese culture. Most people
start off manga with popular anime aired here. My first manga was Ranma 1/2. It was from Ranma that I expanded my manga liking etc etc.

I watched dubbed Ranma. I don't care for subs, and I thought they were great. Have you noticed most kids don't even KNOW manga/anime is from Japan? They just think of it as comics and cartoons.

overall no one cares about Japan or whatever. It's not gonna change, deal with it.

Quote from Dubby

overall no one cares about Japan or whatever. It's not gonna change, deal with it.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the fact that someone is arguing with you proves that the final statement is incorrect. There is a more hardcore audience that cares very, very much about this, and is very vocal. It's just so much smaller in comparison that it's not feasible to make it the primary target.

Honestly, my suggestion to the hardcore group is to learn Japanese and just import the manga directly. It completely keeps the integrity you want, and gives you a more pure interpretation than any American company could give you, in addition to supporting the authors that produce the work you like so much. That does require a bit of effort though.

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Quote from Dubby

overall no one cares about Japan or whatever. It's not gonna change, deal with it.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the fact that someone is arguing with you proves that the final statement is incorrect. There is a more hardcore audience that cares very, very much about this, and is very vocal. It's just so much smaller in comparison that it's not feasible to make it the primary target.

Honestly, my suggestion to the hardcore group is to learn Japanese and just import the manga directly. It completely keeps the integrity you want, and gives you a more pure interpretation than any American company could give you, in addition to supporting the authors that produce the work you like so much. That does require a bit of effort though.

Everyone = not literally.

When I say everyone I don't mean EVERYONE everyone. Because there's NOTHING in this world that's literally everyone [opinion wise I mean], thus isn't not to be taking literally.

I'm talking there's like, not even 10% of these people who are hardcore manga readers of Japanese fans [see how I didn't use weeaboo this time? ;D]

I was gonna post this before but I forgot...

Basically, people watch/read anime and manga for entertainment, NOT to learn about Japanese culture. Thus footnotes everywhere explaining stuff no one cares about would be pointless and a waste of ink.

I can only think of one and only one example where editor's notes might come in handy. That is Excel Saga. You can Americanize that series all you want and you'd still need notes.. ADV did it with the anime and probably made it even better than the original, but even that had Director's notes. SO they're not completely useless like you say they are. They're actually marginally helpful in extreme cases. 😎

Also, in an attempt to steer this topic back to where it was viz seems to have the best track record when it comes to release speed as of late. I''s was releeased a hell of a lot faster than Video Girl A.I. BAA Last Order is only two volumes behind. Same for FMA. Naruto is getting, what, three volumes a month. They're at vol 19 of Eyeshield 21. It even has color pages for once. These guys are stupid fast. And they still somehow manage to stay on track with other less high profile series they have.

Sarcasm just doesn't work over the internet.

Quote from Dubby

Quote from Crenshinibon

Quote from Dubby

overall no one cares about Japan or whatever. It's not gonna change, deal with it.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the fact that someone is arguing with you proves that the final statement is incorrect. There is a more hardcore audience that cares very, very much about this, and is very vocal. It's just so much smaller in comparison that it's not feasible to make it the primary target.

Honestly, my suggestion to the hardcore group is to learn Japanese and just import the manga directly. It completely keeps the integrity you want, and gives you a more pure interpretation than any American company could give you, in addition to supporting the authors that produce the work you like so much. That does require a bit of effort though.

Everyone = not literally.

When I say everyone I don't mean EVERYONE everyone. Because there's NOTHING in this world that's literally everyone [opinion wise I mean], thus isn't not to be taking literally.

I'm talking there's like, not even 10% of these people who are hardcore manga readers of Japanese fans [see how I didn't use weeaboo this time? ;D]

I was gonna post this before but I forgot...

Basically, people watch/read anime and manga for entertainment, NOT to learn about Japanese culture. Thus footnotes everywhere explaining stuff no one cares about would be pointless and a waste of ink.

Everyone I know that reads manga knows it is from Japan and nearly all of them have enough interest in Japanese culture to understand basic terms like itadakimasu or enough intelligence to understand what something like shinigami is through context.

Besides, the number of people taking Japanese in schools has risen an incredible amount in the past few years, not to mention the increase attendance at conventions, so it seems there is an interest in the culture and that the manga companies are underestimating the intelligence of their readers. Even if the person had no interest in the culture how much effort does it take to look up a word. I do it all the time when I read. Problem solved and new word in my vocabulary.

I'm in the camp that doesn't like my manga messed with. It wouldn't be bad if we could buy from different companies but if a company we hate licenses a favorite than we're stuck with that. Back to the original thread question, I think the timing of releases has sped up noticeably or maybe it was just worse when there was so much unlicensed that you had full series in Japan that hadn't come out yet. I get impatient but thats why I read scans.

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Quote from falmari

Quote from Dubby

Quote from Crenshinibon

[quote=Dubby]overall no one cares about Japan or whatever. It's not gonna change, deal with it.

I actually agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the fact that someone is arguing with you proves that the final statement is incorrect. There is a more hardcore audience that cares very, very much about this, and is very vocal. It's just so much smaller in comparison that it's not feasible to make it the primary target.

Honestly, my suggestion to the hardcore group is to learn Japanese and just import the manga directly. It completely keeps the integrity you want, and gives you a more pure interpretation than any American company could give you, in addition to supporting the authors that produce the work you like so much. That does require a bit of effort though.

Everyone = not literally.

When I say everyone I don't mean EVERYONE everyone. Because there's NOTHING in this world that's literally everyone [opinion wise I mean], thus isn't not to be taking literally.

I'm talking there's like, not even 10% of these people who are hardcore manga readers of Japanese fans [see how I didn't use weeaboo this time? ;D]

I was gonna post this before but I forgot...

Basically, people watch/read anime and manga for entertainment, NOT to learn about Japanese culture. Thus footnotes everywhere explaining stuff no one cares about would be pointless and a waste of ink.

Everyone I know that reads manga knows it is from Japan and nearly all of them have enough interest in Japanese culture to understand basic terms like itadakimasu or enough intelligence to understand what something like shinigami is through context.

Besides, the number of people taking Japanese in schools has risen an incredible amount in the past few years, not to mention the increase attendance at conventions, so it seems there is an interest in the culture and that the manga companies are underestimating the intelligence of their readers. Even if the person had no interest in the culture how much effort does it take to look up a word. I do it all the time when I read. Problem solved and new word in my vocabulary.

I'm in the camp that doesn't like my manga messed with. It wouldn't be bad if we could buy from different companies but if a company we hate licenses a favorite than we're stuck with that. Back to the original thread question, I think the timing of releases has sped up noticeably or maybe it was just worse when there was so much unlicensed that you had full series in Japan that hadn't come out yet. I get impatient but thats why I read scans. [/quote]You're completely missing my point.

You say your friends. My friends are the same too. BUT I've met kids younger than 10 year olds that read manga and watch anime. I was taking an arts course a few months back and one younger box in the class below mine had the tendency to bring in like, 3 manga books a class.

Did this kid know anything about Japan or cared why mangas were read "backwards"? No, he didn't really actually.

Although most people I hang out know about Japan and are total manga freaks with Japanese fetishes [hence the term "wapanese"], that's only because I LOOKED for those people to hang out with. Actually, I lied. I didn't. They freak me out at times and I refuse to go to any conventions with them out of embarrassment. But that's beside the point.

I'm saying that like, around 10-30% MAX of the manga readers care about this and that. Like, wow. 10-30%% is not that much. Think about the other 70-90%. Like hell companies are going to not Americanize it to satisfy that small amount of their readers. -_- If they did, the other 70-90% of people who read manga would get confused and their brains would explode.

Besides, they know that even though you complaint like this, you still buy their products. lawlz. You decide what benefits them better.

While I don't give a flying fudge about Americanization or not, I'm just pointing out the facts. No matter how much you complain, manga will ALWAYS be Americanized.

Also, regarding American prizes... here in Canada, manga is expensive. MORE expensive than in the states. AND 13% tax. So damn you all, stop complaining. >_<

Quote from falmari

Everyone I know that reads manga knows it is from Japan and nearly all of them have enough interest in Japanese culture to understand basic terms like itadakimasu or enough intelligence to understand what something like shinigami is through context.

Everyone that I know in school thinks that manga and anime are filled with big eyed freaks =]

Quote from Dubby

Also, regarding American prizes... here in Canada, manga is expensive. MORE expensive than in the states. AND 13% tax. So damn you all, stop complaining. >_<

Umm hopes to not get yelled at Ummm, actually it's about the same now? Since the value of a canadian dollar and an US dollar are the same now? Prices SHOULD have adjusted.. >< 13% tax? I only pay 5% tax @@ And yea.. I'm in canada.. @@ Anyhow I guess it works differently in different places(provinces?)?

Melona~ >w<

O.o ... Wow. Amazing how a whole topic about licensed manga coming out too slow switched all the way to "Americanizing" manga/anime.

Ah, anyways. For the on-topic response. My thoughts on licensed manga is that I don't mind their release schedule at all. I only mind when it's companies like ADV who can't even hold onto their own rights over particular manga series thus, dropping the manga off like flies. I only hope Yen Press delivers when they start cranking out more ICE Kunion projects. That long wait for Moon Boy vol. 4 is worth it (since I saw the raws on a Korean site...), but I had to wonder why that long... sighs

Now, with the whole the Americanization debate. I agree with Dubby and anyone else who's on that side of the argument. When you're older, you'd definitely understand that manga comes from Japan. When you're young though, you don't really care/understand at all.

Growing up with DiC's version of Sailor Moon, I didn't care about the dub names at that time. I knew that Sailor Moon came from Japan, thanks to a friend who got me interested in it, but I had no interest in knowing their actual Japanese names. I was simply a little kid who woke up at 6:30 in the morning just to watch Sailor Moon because it was a different kind of cartoon. (I can't believe I even did that. >_>)

As I grew older, I began to appreciate the original Japanese names more and the original context. Although, I really don't agree with butchering the names and context that much, it can't be helped. I understand that name replacement was the easy way for those not really into Japanese culture to understand an anime/manga. Nelvana was probably the only company who really lost against the hardcore fanbase, but apparently, there are still people who stuck with the dub names.

(So, I have to resist an urge of going over to Shogakukan for asking Viz to "Americanize" Detective Conan. 🤣 I have to wonder, out of all the typical names out there, it had to be a very Americanish sounding name for Shinichi. Every time I read "Jimmy", I think of the 1960s...)

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it depends on who is licensing it. because i got alot scanner mb and drama queen mangas a few days ago.