Quote from TaoPaiPai

lol your idiotic ramblings sound [or reads] just like from any rightwing christian who does not understand how the real world works

seriously
not one person takes this like a day in the sun
you just dont go in
fixtrixmagicboom
and then go out fucking hordes of random men again
[i guess it is possible some does but they are probably mentally ill or in some sort of addiction/line of work[prostitution] that they cant help getting pregnant from time to time]

on a side note

why dont they leave the babies with nuns?
or just drop them off inside a church or something
leaving them in trashcans seems like a bad idea

My opinion is formed that way because during high school I've known a couple who had at least two abortions and acted as if it was nothing, so yeah maybe I'm a bit biased about this subject. My idiotic ramblings are based on the the environment I have lived into since the day I was born.

As my side note: I'm not a religious person. You don't have to be a Cristian in order to think that murder is bad.

[color=black]Does not compute.[/color]

Quote from Maharajah

My opinion is formed that way because during high school I've known a couple who had at least two abortions and acted as if it was nothing, so yeah maybe I'm a bit biased about this subject. My idiotic ramblings are based on the the environment I have lived into since the day I was born.

As my side note: I'm not a religious person. You don't have to be a Cristian in order to think that murder is bad.

Trust me, even if they acted like it wasn't a big deal, those events will play a role in the rest of their life in some capacity. I don't know why people often make the assumption that others don't think (really, it makes sense to assume that just about anyone would be just as concerned about their own life as you are about yours), but regardless of whether someone's callous or an idiot or really just a prick, there's some self-awareness buried down in there.

And no, you don't have to be Christian or religious in the slightest to think that murder is bad (on the contrary, you have natural psychological impulses against it that are quite difficult to overcome). But abortion isn't definitively murder. Hence the gray area, hence the problem.

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If I translated this to chicken society, it'd be pretty simple.

Would you feel better crushing the new-laid egg (within hours from it was put into the world) or would you feel better laying the newly-hatched chick out in the cold, fully conscious and let it either freeze or starve to death?

The answer is pretty obvious, except for if you're a masochist (edit: 'cuse me, I'm tired, I meant sadist of course). 😛

(well, it'd be a different matter if the newly born 'chick' was put in an orphanage or something like that, but that's not what we're talking about, right?)

Quote from Oriolidae

The answer is pretty obvious, except for if you're a masochist. 😛

Sadist, I think you mean.

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Quote from Oriolidae

The answer is pretty obvious, except for if you're a masochist. 😛

Sadist, I think you mean.

Yeah. 😳

well...it's all about the sanctity of life...

when a baby is born it is unquestionable alive and a person, whereas when a foetus is developing inside the womb it is more in the realm of philosophy about whether it is alive or isn't.
Therefore, objectively, the fairest way to judge the situation is to say that when a baby is born it is a person and killing it is classed as infanticide or murder.

So...it's down to how people view life. People accept abortion because they believe it is not killing a person as that person had yet to be born; people who are against it believe that the foetus is alive and should have the right to life. However, people who accept abortion cannot deny that when a baby is born it is alive, therefore killing it is wrong.

It's the same reasoning as why you don't feed a hungry lion humans instead of animal meat - because human life is precious to humans.

I am the master of my fate;
I am the captin of my soul.
William Ernest Henely

I rate manga with 5 being the average score.

Hummm...

Society has not decided whether fetuses count as living beings or masses of cells aiming for life. Also, some abortions are necessary for the health (or even life) of the mother.

Whereas, once a baby has been born, it is unquestionably alive and you are undoubtedly killing a human. Also, it can be seen as irresponsible to not leave it at an adoption center or Church.

I suppose that's why

[img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/21.jpg[/img]

hmm, this is a tough one to choose from 😐

[CENTER][img]http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/18.jpg[/img][/CENTER]

If I am not mistaken abortion is only done with in the 2-6 months after becoming pregnant otherwise it is a risk to the mother. During that time it is not exactly a complete being yet that can not survive outside the womb. On the other had babies abandoned in the dumpster are complete beings who are already outside the womb and have the option of surviving if they get adopted by people who want them. More abortions will most likely lead to more research. There might be already underground research going on to remove the womb barrier for the embryo's survival after being removed from the womb.

Probably been said before but what you abort isn't technically "alive" just yet while a "dumpster baby" is. That's why you can't abort after a certain amount of time. They're completely different.

Both situations are pathetic. I don't find any differences besides the method.

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Quote from LawX

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Quote from Crenshinibon

And you will murder someone one day, pika. If you're my daughter.

I think it's illegal because up to the point when they take their first breath of air, there is still the possibility that they can die w/o ever knowing life outside the womb even for a minute. So until the moment the head pops out, they are still considered "non-life"

Quote from Maharajah

There's something that's been bothering me for a while. In my country, if you watch the daily news there's a high change you'll hear something about a baby found dead in a trashcan/dumpster. Of course the next step is for the police to take legal action and look for the woman who gave birth and abandoned her baby and then arrest her.

Now my question is: Why is it illegal to throw you baby in a dumpster while abortion is legal?

Please note that this is not a topic about whether abortion is morally right or wrong. I am against of both abortion and abandoning babies which results in their death. Just use contraception. If you can't handle the consequences of unprotected sex then please don't have it. What I want to know is why is it ok for a doctor to kill an unborn child while it's illegal to kill it yourself after it is born? The way I see it the unborn child's life is equal to the born one's.

(Note: If this is inappropriate for Chatter Box, then perhaps it should be moved to a better section. Thank you.)

Too uninterested to weed thru the list of replies. TC replied once, didn't ask any more questions.

alright, first things first. Abortion is not murder. there are people that say 'abortion is murder' they are nutjobs. This is a technical term, for people who think something is not true despite being given ample evidence to the contrary.

Someone might say, theres ample evidence that god doesnt exist exactly the way the bible says he does, but they believe it anyway. we are getting on a tangent here, but its describing where the mindset comes from.

Abortion is legal as from the Roe V Wade Supreme court decision, in the first 2 trimesters of child bearing the fetus cannot survive on its own so its not a separate life from the mother. which is why its not murder.

Technology allows a fetus to be born prematurely so a mother can eject the baby and stick it in an incubator after the 5th month and it has a reasonable chance of survival which is why an abortion after 5 months require more conditions to be legal.

A baby, once its born is a seporate life. capable of living on its own. and should be dropped off at a police station or orphanage instead of a dumpster. LEGALLY.

If you want to go into the ethics of such a situation, I'm sort of the mindset that if you have a sane mother and she wants you dead, you are pretty much boned, so its not really ethical to force her to keep you.

Most mothers love their babies, so its more forcing religious beliefs on other people over a greater good for the society.

However its technically murder, negligence or whatever to leave a baby in a dumpster. Especially if Police stations or orphanages would take the child. and theres no reason to let it die.

and there are normally better options than that, its just pressure and despair and overall a bad decision. I wouldn't call it MURDER per se. but succumbing to grief and temporary mental instability.

If there are no better options its hypocritical to force her to raise a child she cannot support.

Being against abortion makes you evil.

I will agree with Crenshinibon that abortion is all about what everyone's definition of murder is... or at what point the cells in someone's uterus becomes "alive".

Though I think there is also some religious reason about how if someone becomes pregnant, even with contraceptives, that they were "fated" by god to have a child, and having an abortion is killing that person god or fate or whatever has chosen to exist for some reason. Then it might be "killing" i guess, but i dont know... but that would require believing in the existence of fate and god, which I dont, as I wasnt raised to, as seen in the newly created atheist thread. jeez you people and your serious threads.

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Quote from Kitteh_13

Quote from mangacraze

[quote=AA2109964]You address the reason, I believe, for the reason people don't see dumpster babies the same as abortion babies. I think it's because people believe that it's not a "baby" as it is just a mass of cells during the stages it is aborted, but cells are the basic unit of life, so killing cells is the same. I am against abortion and dumpster babies also, just sad.

by your logic it should be illegal for men to masturbate and for woman to menstruate.
this might sound cruel but if a living being is inside you you have the right to remove it because it falls within the domain of personal freedom (i mean would you ban women from punching themselves in the stomach or drinking while pregnant) so whats left is wither we force women to use unsafe and dangerous method to abort what is essentially at early stages a parasite or provide safe methods so the mother wont be harmed
and the only benefit i could see from seeking legal action with dumpster mom is to prevent other "parents" who want to get rid of their children from dropping them off at the most dangerous place for a baby

But... Menstruation and masturbation are different then a fertilized egg. If those two things never meet it wouldn't make a baby in the first place. Or anything for that matter. I'm trying to think of a good analogy but I can't find one, but yours is just wrong.

Quote from TaoPaiPai

lol your idiotic ramblings sound [or reads] just like from any rightwing christian who does not understand how the real world works

seriously
not one person takes this like a day in the sun
you just dont go in
fixtrixmagicboom
and then go out fucking hordes of random men again
[i guess it is possible some does but they are probably mentally ill or in some sort of addiction/line of work[prostitution] that they cant help getting pregnant from time to time]

on a side note

why dont they leave the babies with nuns?
or just drop them off inside a church or something
leaving them in trashcans seems like a bad idea

Can I just say you described half my friends? One is going to get an abortion soon just because she doesn't believe in contraception. Abortion IS her contraception and she had no second thoughts about it. You're naive to think there aren't people out there like that.

when people say abortion is wrong because the origin of humans are cells then by their logic the origin of these "cells" are sperm which by their logic should be illegal to kill because human life originates from it besides i see a larger difference between a zygote and a baby than i do between a zygote and sperm[/quote]

You are thinking too deeply of what I said. There is a large difference between fertilization, what develops to become life, and a sperm, which has the potential to give life. Abortion is the process of killing something that is developing, masturbation and the killing of sperm cells is no where comparable to a developing fetus, as the sperm can only develop once it it able to fertilize the oocytes.

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